How do you feel about Dems using the meme RWers are using to discredit the Wisconsin Movement?

[ClassWarrior]

"Elections have consequences."

True, they do. I believe a lot of swing voters, Walker voters, and yes, even self-identified Republicans are learning this lesson big time right now - which is all to our advantage.

But the Radical RW in Wisconsin has been relentless in trying to use this meme as a way of saying, "We won the election, so SHUT UP AND SIT DOWN."

Now (coincidentally?) this phrase is all over the place, but directed at progressives (most of whom voted in Wisconsin), not at the much-coveted apathetic "middle" that stayed home in November.

How do you feel about that?

NGU.

[Vinnie From Indy]

1. I feel the same way with most all right-wing memes

the people spouting them are morons and bone stupid.

[Lefta Dissenter]

2. I'm going to stay calm and cool

and say that there's a reason the Wisconsin State Constitution contains provisions for recall elections.

By the way, I'm sure none of those RWers are going to sign the recall petitions for our Fabulous Fourteen, are they? I mean, "elections have consequences," and all that...

Interesting to note that the papers for recall of the 14 Dems have been filed by a group in Utah.

and the papers for recall of the Republicans have been filed by Wisconsin citizens.

But here I am all peaceful, and I'm going to finish watering my plants now...

[ClassWarrior]

5. Yes, but people who claim to be Dems are using it to stomp out criticism of Obama.

How do you feel about that?

NGU.

[dionysus]

15. that's basically calling DUers who don't agree with you trolls. how do you feel about that?

NGU

[Cherchez la Femme]

25. How do you define a troll?

It is *your* assertion that these DUers are trolls, after all.

[Youth Uprising]

31. ...

[ClassWarrior]

45. I said nothing about "DUers" or "trolls."

:shrug:

NNNGU.

[Name removed]

22. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

62. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ClassWarrior]

65. So that makes him perfect?

NGU.

[Doctor_J]

56. That's the idea - remain calm

that's gotten us a lot of satisfaction so far...

:eyes:

[Cleita]

3. I feel the powerful in our Party are throwing us under

the bus. It's time for the lefties to take over the party and retire the DINOS. Maybe they can go back to the Republican Party where they belong. It's time for us to become the Party of Wellstone and of Labor again.

[deutsey]

4. So does corporate fascists pouring tons of money into a state election

To answer your question, I'm sick of complex or large or ambiguous issues being reduced down to an overly simplistic buzz phrases like "elections have consequences."

[jenmito]

6. You just got your thread locked yesterday when you started the same exact thread!:

"How do you feel about DUers using the meme RWers are using to discredit the Wisconsin Movement?

"Elections have consequences."

True, they do. I believe a lot of swing voters, Walker voters, and yes, even self-identified Republicans are learning this lesson big time right now - which is all to our advantage.

But the Radical RW in Wisconsin has been relentless in trying to use this meme as a way of saying, "We won the election, so SHUT UP AND SIT DOWN."

Now (coincidentally?) this phrase is all over DU, but directed at progressives (most of whom voted in Wisconsin), not at the much-coveted apathetic "middle" that stayed home in November.

How do you feel about that?

NGU."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=433x628271

[emulatorloo]

9. Good Find

I thought this felt like FLAMEBAIT

[jenmito]

10. Thanks...

I alerted and hope THIS one will get locked, too.

[emulatorloo]

11. As did I, the second time referring to the link you found

[jenmito]

12. Good...

I hope it works.

[Youth Uprising]

32. Pathetic...

[ClassWarrior]

39. Thanks for posting it verbatim. I changed it today so it wouldn't get locked. Hopefully...

...this subthread won't get deleted.

You didn't answer, by the way.

NGU.

[jenmito]

48. So you changed "all over DU" to "all over the place"-as if people don't know who you're

talking about?! And I do NOT believe that "elections have concequences" is a RW meme at ALL. It's a FACT no matter WHO uses it. They DO have consequences. And the fact that the RWers are now in so many governorships and other positions is a consequence of Dems. not voting. I really love :sarcasm: how Ed Schultz declared that he wasn't going to vote in '10 and then goes and "stands with the people in WI"-the people who got their rights trampled on thanks to the likes of Ed himself.

[ClassWarrior]

54. Yeah. I'm following the rules. You might want to do the same.

:shrug:

NGU.

[jenmito]

57. That's all you got to my response to your OP?

:shrug:

[ClassWarrior]

58. You still haven't answered the question.

:shrug:

NGU.

[jenmito]

59. Yes I did.

:shrug:

[ClassWarrior]

64. No you didn't. Do you know the difference between a phrase and a frame?

I said the phrase "elections have consequences" has been re-framed by the Radical RW to mean that protestors should "shut up and sit down."

I asked how you feel about Dems using the meme the same way. You never answered.

NGU.

[jenmito]

66. It's a faulty premise. Dems. DON'T use it the same way. The rest of my post stands. n/t

[ClassWarrior]

70. Because you say so?

:eyes:

NGU.

[jenmito]

89. Because YOU say so?

:eyes:

[tularetom]

7. Elections won by republicans have consequences

Because they push that argument endlessly.

Elections won by Democrats never seem to have any consequences because Dems either don't believe the premise or are afraid to seize the advantage that an election win would give them.

The election of President Barack Obama for example, seems to have had very few consequences while the election of Gov Wanker in Wisconsin has had major consequences (not all of them positive for the republicans it would appear).

[Youth Uprising]

33. 100% True

Obama was elected on a clear mandate. "Reverse the course of this country, hold the people who led to this downward spiral accountable, end our wars of imperialism, restore our civil liberties, enact progressive legislation, and restore honor and justice into this country."

[emulatorloo]

8. "elections have consequences" is not a right wing meme

It is pretty much a statement of fact.

This is what happens when a teabag governor etc get elected.

[ClassWarrior]

42. Do you know the difference between a phrase and a meme?

"Elections have consequences" is a phrase that's been used for some time.

But lately it's been framed with a particularly nasty, anti-Democratic meaning, i.e., "Shut up and sit down."

Do you condone that? Is that a statement of fact?

NGU.

[27inCali]

13. RECALL ELECTIONS HAVE CONSEQUENCES TOO MOTHER FUCKER

[Lefta Dissenter]

17. Now why didn't *I* think of that???

minus the MoFo part, of course, :spank:

[dionysus]

14. where do you get that from? that statement doesnt discredit anything, it's a toltally seperate issue

[CakeGrrl]

16. Sneaky way to get this in under the radar - replace "DUers" with "Dems"

Will someone finally explain why they feel like they're being attacked when they either criticize or outright bash the President or the administration and someone disagrees with them?

So what? Why is disagreement so painful and hard to take?

For all this complaining, I've never seen any valid criticism of President Obama that didn't violate the rules of this forum removed.

So what IS the problem?

[jenmito]

18. Yup. That's why this same thread got locked yesterday:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=433x628271#628312

[ClassWarrior]

40. Yeah, following the rules. How sneaky.

:rofl:

Why are people attacked and accused of falsehoods whenever they criticize the President, legitimately or not?

I get falsely accused of not voting, or encouraging others to not vote, all the time, just because I criticize my President or people who support him unquestioningly. There's nothing wrong with disagreement and discussion. There is much wrong with being attacked.

That's the problem.

NGU.

[MadMaddie]

19. They told us to sit down and shut up when Junior

was handed the election.....they shut us down....Well screw them we will not go down that path again. Screw the REpublicans they are losing their own supporters.

[MrSlayer]

20. Elections have consequences unless Democrats win.

When that happens it becomes "one party tyranny".

[jefferson_dem]

21. Good Lord. Do you really dismiss "elections have consequences" as a RW meme?

It's a cold, hard truism. Deal with it.

In particular, those who advocate staying home on general election day 2012 should not expect to escape the finger of blame...for helping enable the worst of the worst.

[golfguru]

34. Lot of things are dismissed as RW meme's here

when some posters have no legit counter point.

[gkhouston]

23. Same way I do with wingers: like they've run out of arguments.

Whenever I hear Dems use this, it's always in the context of, "things will be so bad, they'll have to vote Dem next time or we'll be stuck with a truly horrible Republican and the consequences will be unthinkable." Damn, that's inspiring. There's nothing that'll get me to run to the polls faster than a tacit admission that our guy sucks less than the other guy. Might as well print up some 2012 bumperstickers reading "Vote for Placeholder".

[ClarkUSA]

24. They happen to b e right. Anyone using this political truism happens to be right.

[ClassWarrior]

44. So you feel it's right to use "this political truism" to say "shut up and sit down?"

NGU.

[mstinamotorcity]

26. dumb

argument

[ZombieHorde]

27. Do you believe the phrase is inaccurate? Do you believe elections are devoid of consequences? nt

[ClassWarrior]

43. No, I believe the phrase has been reframed.

Reading comprehension is your friend.

NGU.

[LanternWaste]

49. It is re-framed by the individual...

It is re-framed only by the individuals who allow it to be done.

While comprehension may be one's friend, valid inference is one's mate.

[RBInMaine]

63. WRONG ! Elections have consequences, and those who don't vote and/or don't engage must learn that

lesson. If not, they are doomed to repeat it. You may not want to face facts, but too many Dems disengaged in 2010, and now we have right wing radicals running things in too many places. LIVE AND LEARN ! And ENGAGE next time.

[ClassWarrior]

68. The fact is too many swing voters disengaged in 2010.

That's the danger in chasing the mythical "centrist."

:shrug:

NGU.

[Greybnk48]

28. Only when the fucking repukes win. When we win it's

filibuster, obstruct, filibuster, obstruct, tantrum, tantrum, tantrum. I think I like a previous poster's answer to that meme "So do recall elections mother fucker!" That's my answer from now on.

[Ikonoklast]

29. I feel... that I should unrec.

And, golly gee, I sure did!


Elections have consequences, and if you think that is a right-wing meme and not a universal truth, your momma dropped you one time too many.

[BklnDem75]

30. It's a right wing meme because you call it one?

Looks like someone's upset people who were high fiving each other for sitting out the past election is being taken to task with that phrase. As I posted in your duplicate thread that was locked, Barbara Boxer said the same phrase in 2007:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x4iHan7BjqY&feature=player_embedded

So is Barbara Boxer a right winger too?

[Avant Guardian]

36. It is a right wing meme because John Bohner has been repeating it since the midterms

You should watch the news more

[BklnDem75]

37. Have you considered they started saying it...

because we said it first? That doesn't make it their meme.

[Name removed]

41. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ClassWarrior]

55. Are you suggesting that "we" gave it the the meaning of "shut up and sit down?"

That's the meme I mean. If that's not what you mean, you're either missing or ignoring my point entirely.

NGU.

[BklnDem75]

60. No. You gave it that meaning.

I simply don't agree with you.

[ClassWarrior]

67. No, the Radical RW gave it that meaning.

And plenty of Dems seem awfully eager to follow suit.

NGU.

[BklnDem75]

69. I disagree

I'll continue using the phrase despite your attempts to frame it.

[ClassWarrior]

71. What part of "They need to get over it" don't you understand?

http://www.dailynews-record.com/opinion_details.php?AID=55456&CHID=36

NGU.

[BklnDem75]

72. The part where...

you can't name a single Democrat who said that.

[ClassWarrior]

73. You disagree that the Radical RW gave it that meaning because I can't name a single Dem...

...who said that?

:crazy:

Still working on coherence, are we?

NGU.

[BklnDem75]

74. 'How do you feel about Dems using the meme RWers are using to discredit the Wisconsin Movement?'

I'm sorry. I thought that's what your OP was about. Since you're not talking about DUers like your previously locked thread, care to throw out some examples?

How did 'Elections have consequences' that most Dems use turn into 'They need to get over it' that nobody uses? Coherence indeed.

[ClassWarrior]

76. You know full well that I can't post links. Dems who aren't Obama purists...

...need to find them on their own.

NGU.

[BklnDem75]

77. Why can't you post links?

Your OP talks about Democrats, not DUers, so please point to these examples. Even the most primitive pcs are capable of a copy and paste job.

[ClassWarrior]

78. "Democrats" encompasses a lot of people.

Are you telling me that certain DUers aren't Democrats?

NGU.

[BklnDem75]

79. Nice dodge

Most DUers are Democrats. Now with that out of the way, please support your OP. Feel free to leave DUers out of it since we don't want any calling out now. ;-)

[ClassWarrior]

80. I never said I was leaving DUers out of it. That's...

...an invention of your own imagination.

:rofl:

NGU.

[BklnDem75]

81. Wow! Care to read my post again?

It was pretty clear.

Btw, how about those examples?

[ClassWarrior]

84. Sure. BRB.

NGU.

[BklnDem75]

85. And while you're doing that...

Some examples would really hit the spot!

[ClassWarrior]

87. Wow, dead horse, meet club. You already know that I can't link to posts on DU. Why are you...

...trying to coerce me into breaking the rules? That's pretty slimy.

Of course, using the "Search" function is well within the rules.

:shrug:

NGU.

[BklnDem75]

88. So is discussing DUers...

but it didn't stop you from making this OP. So tell me, do you think calling something a 'right wing meme' is any different than any other attempt to silence those you disagree with?

[ClassWarrior]

90. I'm discussing Dems. And you yourself said, and I quote...

..."Most DUers are Democrats." :shrug: You're free to come to whatever conclusions you'd like.

So tell me, do you think telling a fellow Dem "ELECTIONS HAVE CONSEQUENCES" is any different than any other attempt to silence those with whom you disagree?

NGU.

[BklnDem75]

91. Not at all

'Elections have consequences' is just a hard truth. Calling something a RW meme is strictly an opinion.

[ClassWarrior]

92. What about when it's a hard lie? Like when a Dem throws it...

...in lots of other Dems' faces, even though s/he knows full well that virtually all of those Dems voted in the election in question?

NGU.

[BklnDem75]

94. Not sure how such a phrase can be used in that way

Can you be specific?

[ClassWarrior]

96. Are you going to answer my question?

NGU.

[BklnDem75]

97. I responded to your question

I'm pretty sure clarifying your question is within the rules. What phrase are you talking about?

[ClassWarrior]

99. Nice dodge, to borrow a phrase. LOL... You "responded" to it...

...but you didn't answer it.

And I don't need your help in interpreting the rules.



I'm waiting...



NGU.

[ClassWarrior]

93. You didn't answer... Why are you trying to coerce me into breaking the rules?

Is that how a good, responsible citizen of DU behaves?

NGU.

[BklnDem75]

98. Once again, saying a phrase is not against the rules

You've been throwing out phrases all throughout this whole thread. Am I suppose to read your mind now? Your question is unclear without a reference and you're insisting for me to answer it. If you want me to take you seriously, you really have to give me something to work with. It also helps to respond to me and not yourself.

[Avant Guardian]

35. To them I ask: "Why do elections only have consequences when republicans win?"

I never get an answer

[BklnDem75]

38. Probably because....

your opinion doesn't make it so.

[Avant Guardian]

95. What are the consequences when Democrats win?

What consequences were there when we took the house in 06?
'Impeachment is off the table'

What consequences were there when Obama won?
'Must look forward, not backward'.

[zwyziec]

46. elections have consequences

What else can the regressives say and do? They have been set back on their heels with the magnitude and force of the demonstrations in WI and elsewhere. They know they have over-reached and generated a reactionary force that will continue to build through the 2012 elections. They are aware that the steam has been let out of their engine of hate, fear and divisiveness.

Their words ring hollow and many people of all political leanings see them for what they are.

Don't worry about it. Keep the recalls in WI and Ohio going. Never give up.

[zwyziec]

47. Dead Meme

Memes are self replicating ideas. This one is dead on arrival. Don't worry about it.

[ClassWarrior]

52. Thanks. Welcome to DU.

:hi:

NGU.

[Doctor_J]

61. Set back on their heels?

Whaaa?

[LanternWaste]

50. In and of itself, it appears to be a quite valid statement

In and of itself, it appears to be a quite valid statement, regardless of the politics one may associate with it (through their own choosing of course).

It does appears to beg the question though, "what compels you to perceive a wholly valid and quite objective statement through the lens of mere RW politics?" I would hope many of us stand above that rather than allowing ourselves to be reduced by it. :shrug:

ed: grammar

[ClassWarrior]

53. Please define "pro-life."

NGU.

[ClassWarrior]

83. You can't, can you, without using RW frames?

That's what compels people to perceive wholly valid and quite objective statements through the lens of mere RW politics, over and over and over again. And that includes my President.

I too would hope many of us stand above that rather than allowing ourselves to be reduced by it. Which is why I'm trying to educate people about it. It's insidious and causes us to inadvertently promote RW values. If you legitimately want to learn more, please read the article linked here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=433&topic_id=630400&mesg_id=630400

NGU.

[mkultra]

51. If you wanted republicans, you got em.

[Name removed]

75. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ClassWarrior]

82. It helps to read the entire OP before responding.

I said...

"Elections have consequences."

True, they do. I believe a lot of swing voters, Walker voters, and yes, even self-identified Republicans are learning this lesson big time right now - which is all to our advantage.

But the Radical RW in Wisconsin has been relentless in trying to use this meme as a way of saying, "We won the election, so SHUT UP AND SIT DOWN."

So how do you feel about Dems using that way, not as a statement of fact and responsibility, but as as a cudgel to shut people up like the RW?

NGU.

[ClassWarrior]

86. BTW, I'm fine with using it a cudgel against Teabaggers. Against my fellow Dems? Not so much.

NGU.