The clarifying Manning/Crowley controversy

[MNBrewer]

<http://www.salon.com/news/wikileaks/index.html?story=/opinion/greenwald/2011/03/14/manning>

"It's long been obvious that the Obama administration's unprecedented war on whistleblowers "comes from the President himself," notwithstanding his campaign decree -- under the inspiring title "Protect Whistleblowers" -- that "such acts of courage and patriotism should be encouraged rather than stifled."

[brooklynite]

1. PJ Crowley was not a whistle-blower...

He did not report a hidden fact; he gave an opinion on, as the State Department spokesman, on a policy issue of the Defense Department, with out the approval of State Department.

He has the right to oppose Manning's confinement, and could have resigned on his own in protest, at which point he would be free to speak his mind. He did not have the right to speak as a Government employee on Government policies he disagrees with.

[Bragi]

3. No, he was a truth-teller in an admin that doesn't like truth /nt

[MNBrewer]

6. I take it you didn't read the article before you responded

[brooklynite]

14. I did indeed read it...

I'm offering no judgement on the treatment of Manning, and PJ Crowley has every right to speak out about it as a Private Citizen. He does not have the right to speak out about it as a Government spokesman, and had the option, if he was sufficiently outraged, to resign in protest and speak out afterwards (nb - his specific comment, that Manning's treatment was "ridiculous and counterproductive and stupid" is not the withering indictment I would expect from a "truth teller".)

[karynnj]

21. He has the right to speak out and his employer has the right to fire him

To you think he was asked to that event as a private citizen or because of his job?

He is not a whistle blower - though I agree 100% with his comment.

[kickysnana]

7. People of honor speak out against torture. n/t

[brooklynite]

11. Indeed they do, but not as Government spokesmen...

Ask yourself this: if Robert Gates, a Republican, for some reason opposed the Administration's decision to no longer support DOMA, would it be appropriate for him to speak out as Defense Secretary about it?

[kickysnana]

20. Apples and oranges. n/t

[Bragi]

2. Terrific column!

Read it and weep for Obama, and for human rights.

[snagglepuss]

4. K & R nt

[phleshdef]

5. A whistle blower has a specific noble cause to expose something. Manning is just a spiteful criminal

...who by all accounts of events before he did this whole "grab everything classfied I can and leak it to the world" thing was perceived as a fairly unstable individual who probably never should have had access to that kind of information in the first place.

[Name removed]

8. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[phleshdef]

12. No, he doesn't qualify. He was clearly releasing any and all classified docs he got his hands on.

A noble whistleblower doesn't go drop hundreds of thousands of documents that he or she has never even read, to the entire world. A person actually trying to blow the whistle on injustice provides specific pieces of information for a specific reason that specifically target said injustice. That is clearly not the case with Manning at all. Read the conversations he had with the hacker that eventually turned him in, read his history of dysfunction prior to all this, assaulting other officers, strange behaviors towards colleagues, etc.

Manning had a beef with life and took it out on the government. There may have been some valuable pieces of info for those concerned about transparency, but that was coicidental simply because he dropped any and every piece of info he could, regardless of consequences it may have for the lives of others. What he did was wreckless and inexcusable.

Accusing me of being a paid shill isn't keeping you from losing any arguments.

[atreides1]

9. Then his chain of command shares the blame!

His chain of command should be reprimanded for their lack of competence, and their inability to determine that Manning was a threat.

Not exactly leadership material were they?

[phleshdef]

13. The military has hundreds of thousands of service members. They can't filter out every single threat

Thats just a side effect of human nature. But in a perfect world, yes, his superiors should have let him go a lot sooner. Though he was getting pretty close to it anyway, if you read his history, he claims he was about to be discharged for being unable to adjust.

[ProSense]

10. Whistleblower?

First redefining torture, now whistleblowing is someone's opinion?

[MNBrewer]

16. Supporters of Presidents who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones

"First redefining torture, now whistleblowing is someone's opinion?"

[obamafourmore]

15. Once again, no proofs. Like thie entire nonsense

[MNBrewer]

17. what do you mean "no proofs"?

[vaberella]

18. Lots of noise and then the truth will come out from the horses mouth stating something else.

Ugh... No one has heard anything from Crowley himself and others. I'll wait until I hear anything before I run on some secret santa story.

[MNBrewer]

19. He said

What’s being done to Bradley Manning by my colleagues at the Department of Defense "is ridiculous and counterproductive and stupid"

[vaberella]

22. Don't play coy. Maybe I should clarify for your benefit.

I want to know what he has to say AFTER his resignation. We all know about the former.