Has the Administration blown a great opportunity to remake the

[WCGreen]

Middle East into a more democratically organized group of nations?

All the hand wringing, in lue of action, in Washington about which faction to back, which despot to abandon and which movement can be exploited for the oil companies has left a number of budding democrats dead in the sand.

Maybe the Obama Administration is Ham Strung by the reckless and feckless actions of the Bush Administration, or worried about attacks from the right.

Was SOS Clinton sent to the Middle East as a presence to assure the status quo, ie the oil companies, while appearing to support the nascent democratic movements?

As the despots reorganize, it looks as if all will be normal in the oil rich region meaning the brutality and oppression keeps on.

[JuniperLea]

1. How many times has US intervention into another nation's leadership worked?

?

[WCGreen]

2. We always seem to support the status Quo...

But in Lybia, we could and should be doing much more...

[Solomon]

3. Can't tell the difference from the left or the right these days.

One thing they have in common: find anything and everything to bash Obama. Nbody can't say he hasn't brought us all together. Sheesh! Wonder what he had for breakfast this morning. Surely he ate something we can all gripe about.

[JuniperLea]

7. It better have been tasteless gruel!!

And from at tin cup too.

Yeah, today is a perfect example. Obama is under pressure on all sides to do something about the economy, and there are several articles posted on that here today. So months ago he makes this plan to take a trip to meet with industrial and corporate leaders of other countries who have been flirting with doing business with China instead of the US, and he's being ridiculed. This is quite literally damned if you do and damned if you don't territory.

I'm glad he's keeping his eye on the ball instead of worrying about the chatter. Clearly doing the country's work is more important to him than keeping up appearances. Yet appearances is what it's all about for some people. I find that quite dysfunctional.

[former9thward]

4. Certainly worked in Germany, Italy and Japan in 1945.

But there has been very little success since then.

[gateley]

5. Not sure WE can 'remake' any nation. Instead, I'd say Obama learned the

lesson from Bush that the people do NOT want us there and will not welcome us with opens arms and bouquets of flowers. I hope.

It WAS painfully obvious during Egypt that the public pronouncements were purely political - but any President in that situation would have to walk the line, I think, between maintaining a good relationship with a leader and the people of the country.

It's been my sense that Obama feels as we do, is rooting for the people, but has to deal with the situation he's been dealt.

I've heard, though, that we're in communication w/the opposition in Libya and they're asking for help, but again, I think Obama's first obligation is to the US, natch, and we're spread too thin fighting losing battles already.

From my vantage point, just pull the troops out of Afghanistan and Iraq and THEN we can talk about maybe helping. Yeah, like that's going to happen.

I think he DID miss an opportunity to begin to turn the mess we're in around when he agreed to escalate in Afghanistan. I fervently hope he's learned a lesson that the military doesn't give the best advice for our country, just the best advice for themselves.

There IS always the concern of what the Right will say, too, but regardless of what he does he'll be criticized, so....:shrug:

What do you think? What would you advise him to do?

[WCGreen]

10. This is a bit different because I believe that the opposition party's were

asking for US support...

Turns out only Curve Ball was asking for an invasion of Iraq.

In Iraq, Bush invaded and I don't think anyone is talking about a bullheaded invasion of Libya or Bahrain or any of the other hot spots around the Middle East.

[gateley]

13. Yes - you make a good distinction. And I've heard that the Opposition is asking

for help, as you say.

I wonder what they will do? He can't act independently of the other UN members, but it appears the UN is leaning toward a no fly zone which would "include striking" some of Libya's stuff.

And I just heard that Gaddafi just said "I'm coming for you tonight and there will be no mercy" - so I hope the UN acts fast.

And again, you're right that nobody is talking about an all-out invasion. Thanks for your input!

[CaliforniaPeggy]

6. I fear that you're correct.

I felt so hopeful when the rebels seemed to be getting somewhere in Libya.

Now? Not so much.

Could we have helped? Where were the wiser minds?

It makes me really sad to see the brutality and oppression returning, and probably more brutally than ever...

Recommended.

[FrenchieCat]

24. SO how are you feeling now CaliforniaPeggy?

[JoePhilly]

8. Sounds like a line from PNAC, the folks who guided Bush into Iraq.

Their model is that the US military should be turning the ME in to democracy, by force.

Seems to be working out so well, maybe we should expand that model?

:sarcasm:

[WCGreen]

9. You got me...

I was trained in the Bush Compound and released into the wilds of Democratic Underground way back in 2003 to worm my way into the hearts and minds of democrats so that I could, when president Obama took over, which of course we knew back in 2003, suddenly question, question, question the actions of president Obama...

Get real...

It's a sad state of affairs when questioning our president is met with visions of conspiracy.

[JoePhilly]

11. I'm not discussing conspiracy.

The group PNAC exists.

http://www.newamericancentury.org/

------------
The Project for the New American Century is a non-profit educational organization dedicated to a few fundamental propositions: that American leadership is good both for America and for the world; and that such leadership requires military strength, diplomatic energy and commitment to moral principle.

The Project for the New American Century intends, through issue briefs, research papers, advocacy journalism, conferences, and seminars, to explain what American world leadership entails. It will also strive to rally support for a vigorous and principled policy of American international involvement and to stimulate useful public debate on foreign and defense policy and America's role in the world.

William Kristol, Chairman
-----------

William Kristol is the same "Bill Kristol" you can find on Fox news Sunday each week-end.

Here is the letter they sent Clinton in 1998 urging him to invade Iraq because of their WMD threat. Importantly, read the list of people who signed it, and consider how many of them appear in the Bush administration.

http://www.newamericancentury.org/iraqclintonletter.htm

My point is that the PNAC team actually believes that the US should be using its military to impose Democracy across the Middle East. That is the reason that Afghanistan became Iraq. It it was John Bolton calls for an attack on Iran.

[WCGreen]

12. I never mentioned the use of the military...

I sure don't want them to invade another country...

Strong rhetoric or even open support would be a fresh change of pace.

I may have missed something given the 24/7 coverage of the Japanese situation, but I don't see too much coming from the White House or from Foggy Bottom in support of the people who want to topple repressive regimes.

It's as if the US forgone policy never wavers from it's main thrust which is to keep American Interests, is economic interest, constant and damn liberation of repressed people all over the world.

[Tarheel_Dem]

14. So a "speech" would have made it all better?

If the American people are anything like me, they're sick to death of even hearing about the ME. Will a no fly zone satisfy your lust for someone else's democracy? And why do we have to be involved in everyone else's revolutions? These were heralded as "people revolts", so why don't we let "the people" sort it out, and stop trying to drag the US into further involvement in that part of the world?

[WCGreen]

15. It's not for us....

It's for them...

[Tarheel_Dem]

16. The president has handled this perfectly up to now. This is the provence of

NATO and the UN. We should stop trying to police the world.

[JoePhilly]

18. Agree.

[JoePhilly]

17. You catch my point exactly ...

The OP wants the US to "remake" the ME. As if we could!!!

PNAC does not only think we could, they think we must. Via military engagement.

Obama could give 1000 speeches and still not "remake" the ME into a democracy, or a set of democratic states.

[WCGreen]

21. I don't want to remake the middle east....

I want the Administration to be a little more active in supporting the people inside those countries that are striving for democracy...

If we don't use our influence for this we will always be remembered for what the Bush Administration did in our names...

If you are ok with that, then have at it.

I truly believe that we need to foster the spread of people determining their own destinies.

It doesn't necessarily mean military action.

But it certainly does require taking action to support those people who are willing to risk their lives for a chance to have a voice in their government.

Don't let the actions of the Bush Administration dictate how we operate in the world.

[ClarkUSA]

19. John Bolton agrees with you. So does Dick Cheney. No doubt every neocon does.

All that nice light crude is going to waste! :sarcasm:

[WCGreen]

22. I never mentioned the military....

Not once...

[Arkana]

20. I...just...what?

You want us to engage in MORE nationbuilding?

Weren't we all agreed on that being a BAD thing while Dubya was President?

[ReturnoftheDjedi]

23. I guess you missed the UN Resolution.