This is much worse than Abu Ghraib.

[MyUncle]

Abu Ghraib was about humiliation, abuse that crossed the line to torture, sadistic behavior by idiots.

The Kill Squad committed murders and and treated human remains like hunting trophies.

The parallel is more like the My Lai Massacre.

I don't blame Obama, I didn't blame Bush, Johnson or Nixon. Every US President that I have lived under since 1958 has been involved with some kind of war. EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM.

I blame the total insanity that is war. Every war inevitably has these horrific acts.

Just today, we shot civilians in Libya who were helping rescue downed US Pilots.

It is just plain sickening.

[Smarmie Doofus]

1. Yet what institution do we glorify above all others?

The US *military*.

[MyUncle]

6. I don't blame the US Military.

It seems like humans who are ordered to war inevitably commit atrocities no matter what uniform they wear. When their mission is to kill and destroy, we wind up with chaos and the destruction of human character.

War brings out and enables the beasts no matter the nationality.

[MyUncle]

22. Deleted

[11 Bravo]

23. And you believe these bastards are reflective of the entire US military?

[vaberella]

2. Can you provide a link of this story? Thanks.

Disgusting and horrible if true. I'm really against this crap. But we're in it now.

[Cali_Democrat]

3. Here

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1368633/Libya-war-US-chopper-shoots-6-villagers-welcomed-Air-Force-F-15-crash-pilots.html

[vaberella]

7. thank you. n/t

[ProSense]

4. One of the soldiers

was from Wasilla, Alaska.

Soldier Is Expected to Plead Guilty in Afghan Killings Case.

[vaberella]

8. I'm not sure what your post has to do with the OP's post.

The OP was talking about Libya, but the article your posted is about Afghanistan. I'm a bit confused.

[ProSense]

9. This

is about Afghanistan:

"Abu Ghraib was about humiliation, abuse that crossed the line to torture, sadistic behavior by idiots.

The Kill Squad committed murders and and treated human remains like hunting trophies. "

Here is another article

As for the Libya story about the civilians being shot, that hasn't been confirmed. In fact, it's rather bizarre, ranging from they were throwing a party for the soldiers to claiming that they weren't "resentful."

A reporter for Britain's Channel 4 said six villagers were shot and injured as a US helicopter attempted to rescue the crew. She said one man expected his young son to lose a leg due to a bullet wound but that the locals did not appear resentful over the shootings. A spokeswoman for US Africa Command said it was "trying to ascertain the facts"

link

Mrs Clinton's interview followed an incident during which US troops reportedly opened fire on villagers in an operation to rescue two jet fighter crew members after their plane crashed in eastern Libya. This was flatly denied by the US.

<...>

But a US spokesman "100 per cent" denied any civilians were injured by US weapons fire in the rescue operation.

Reporter Lindsey Hilsum, at the crash, said the US helicopter came in and opened fire on Monday night, local time, as villagers were handing over one of the downed pilots to local rebel forces.

<...>

In Benghazi, Hilsum interviewed one of the injured villagers, who was in a hospital bed. Local people had reportedly been giving a "party" for the crew when they were fired on.

link

[vaberella]

10. Okay, thanks for letting me know Prosense.

Now I'm a bit confused by the stories that are coming out; post first night of air strikes.

[MyUncle]

11. Vaberella, I bounced around a bit in my post.

I was referring to Abu Ghraib which was Iraq, the Kill Squad was the current story out of Afghanistan and the story of the US shooting at the civilians was from Libya (I apologize if that story is not true) and My Lai is Vietnam.

I was not intentionally bouncing around, but they all seem related to me in their horror.

[tekisui]

13. So? They were all US soldiers.

[MyUncle]

14. We do not know yet.

Story still developing, but only pics so far are US.

[Raine1967]

19. this isn't developing, This has been known about this since

At LEAST last September. 3 photos have been released, 4000 exist.

I wrote about this the other day: http://www.fourfreedomsblog.com/Blog.php?Act=ViewBlogPost&BlogID=1447

It's the Stryker brigade.


It's also another example of a terrible Commander. These are not bad apples, these are war criminals. They are mass murderers and sociopaths.

[MyUncle]

21. I should have said the story is still coming out.

I agree with everything you say Raine1967.

[Bonobo]

5. Calling them a "Kill Team" is the first step in an effort to distance them

from the US army.

These men were soldiers of the United States of America.

[tekisui]

12. Great catch.

[EndElectoral]

15. The question with Abu Ghraib is was the behavior endorsed by their commanders/Pentagon.

Here it is obviously not the case.

[MyUncle]

16. I respectfully disagree.

We are talking about the difference between sexual harassment for example vs. rape and murder. While the COs might have wanted the soldiers to shake up the prisoners to get confessions, the degree of atrocity with the Kill Squad is off the charts.

I really did not do the OP in order to compare, blame or bash. I really did it to point out the when we get in to a war, any war, anywhere the situation in always becomes FUBAR.

[Raine1967]

20. Commander: YES. Pentagon: NO

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Military/2010/1028/Pentagon-had-red-flags-about-command-climate-in-kill-team-Stryker-brigade

Tunnell had red flags all around.

[Azathoth]

17. Prisoners died at Abu Ghraib as well

However, this is a pedantic and ghoulish point. Both incidents involved torture and/or murder, which makes both of them war crimes/atrocities. Trying to rank the level of human suffering in each incident is stupid and unproductive.

The only meaningful difference between the two is the fact that Abu Ghraib was implicitly sanctioned by the command structure, the result of policies which came from the very top of the DOD and the Bush Administration, while this Kill Squad was apparently going it alone.

[golfguru]

18. We are bankrupt and can no longer afford wars of Offense

If some foreign military attacks us, then we must respond militarily.

However wars in Iraq, Afghanistan, Kosovo, Libya,,,, were all "OPTIONAL"
wars in the sense that we were not attacked by a sovereign nation.

By any commonly accepted accounting standards we are a bankrupt nation.
We need to immediately cut military budget in half and close all 737 foreign bases.
Why we still have troops in Germany? Japan? Korea? Those wars are over half century old!

[Old Troop]

24. In addition to the horrific crimes, there are other disturbing things going

on here:
1. The media are ignoring this while they ran with the Abu Ghraib story. Do they think this will be helpful to a President who couldn't have even known it had occurred or are they laying the groundwork to attack him?
2. One of the NCOs is reported to have used "every drug he could get..." In small units in combat everyone knows everything that their buddies are doing. It seems impossible to me that his chain of command wasn't aware of what he was doing (and yes, I have commanded troops in battle. I knew who was jerking off more than anyone else never mind using drugs).
3. The appearance of the soldiers in some of the pictures is not what is considered acceptable for infantry soldiers in 2011.
4. #s 2 & 3 lead me to believe that discipline had broken down in the unit and the officers in the chain of command either didn't care, encouraged it as a mistaken way of being one of the guys or were afraid to impose discipline on their soldiers.

[sad sally]

25. Dexter Filkins, "The Forever War" is a good read to understand

what soldiers in Afghanistan and especially Iraq deal with. His paper, The New York Times, has a site worth looking at to get an idea of life there.

I know this doesn't address your points, but seeing where our government is sending our troops seems to be in short supply - everything is censored.

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/world/battalion.html?ref=weekinreview#/NYT?du

[hulka38]

26. How the #$@& do you not blame the Presidents?

My tone is that I'm more baffled by that than angry.

[MyUncle]

29. I don't think "Blaming the Presidents" is realistic.

We are talking about war crimes at a local level. I don't think you can blame the President for even creating an environment that enables, encourages or facilitates this type of behavior in this country.

This is a military action, by individuals, in battle conditions, under stress, by bad apples.

My point is that the whole fabric that war creates is what causes these freak out, horrific atrocities.

[ZenoOfElea]

27. Worse than Abu Ghraib, yes, but...

... not quite on par with Al Qaeda, or the Taliban. Not that that's any excuse.

[MyUncle]

28. When start NEEDING to establish moral superiority to the Taliban

we are in serious trouble.