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"Why isn’t Obama getting credit for stopping an atrocity?"

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Clio the Leo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-11 09:57 AM
Original message
"Why isn’t Obama getting credit for stopping an atrocity?"
Why isn’t Obama getting credit for stopping an atrocity?
Tom Malinowski
March 27, 2011

Here is one lesson we can draw from the mostly negative media commentary about the Obama administration’s actions in Libya: Presidents get more credit for stopping atrocities after they begin than for preventing them before they get out of hand.

The U.S.-led NATO intervention that stopped mass killing in Bosnia in 1995, for example, came only after 200,000 people had already been killed. But because we had witnessed massacre after massacre after massacre over three years of fighting in Bosnia, the difference NATO made when it ended the carnage was palpable, and Bill Clinton’s achievement in mobilizing the intervention and then negotiating a peace accord was broadly recognized.

<snip>

In Libya, many people (we don’t yet know how many) were arrested, forcibly disappeared and possibly executed as the Qaddafi government consolidated its control over Tripoli and rebel-held enclaves, like Zawiyah, in the country’s west. But the Obama administration and its international allies did act soon enough to prevent the much larger-scale atrocities that would likely have followed Qaddafi’s reconquest of eastern Libya and especially the city of Benghazi. Indeed, though this intervention must have felt painfully slow to the people of Benghazi as Qaddafi’s army bore down upon them, it was, by any objective standard, the most rapid multinational military response to an impending human rights crisis in history, with broader international support than any of the humanitarian interventions of the 1990s.

But precisely because the international community acted in time—before Qaddafi retook Benghazi—we never saw what might have happened had they not acted. Today in eastern Libya, there are no columns of refugees marching home to reclaim their lives; no mass graves testifying to the gravity of the crisis; no moment that symbolizes a passing from horror to hope. The sacking of Benghazi was the proverbial dog that didn’t bark. And so, just days into the military operation, commentators have moved on to a new set of questions—some serious (Is the mission to protect civilians or to remove Qaddafi? Will NATO be stuck patrolling a divided country?), and some trivial (Should Obama have gone to Brazil when the bombing started? Did the interventionist “girls” in his administration out-argue the cautious boys?)

But before the debate moves on, as it must, we should acknowledge what could be happening in eastern Libya right now had Qaddafi’s forces continued their march. The dozens of burned out tanks, rocket launchers, and missiles bombed at the eleventh hour on the road to Benghazi would have devastated the rebel stronghold if Qaddafi’s forces had been able to unleash them indiscriminately, as they did in other, smaller rebel-held towns, like Zawiyah, Misrata, and Adjabiya. Qaddafi’s long track-record of arresting, torturing, disappearing, and killing his political opponents to maintain control suggests that had he recaptured the east, a similar fate would have awaited those who supported the opposition there. Over a hundred thousand Libyans already fled to Egypt fearing Qaddafi’s assault; hundreds of thousands more could have followed if the east had fallen. The remaining population, and those living in refugee camps abroad, would have felt betrayed by the West, which groups like Al Qaeda would undoubtedly have tried to exploit. Finally, Qaddafi’s victory—alongside Egyptian president Hosni Mubarak’s fall—would have signaled to other authoritarian governments from Syria to Saudi Arabia to China that if you negotiate with protesters you lose, but if you kill them you win.

And the United States would still have been embroiled in Libya—enforcing sanctions, evacuating opposition supporters, assisting refugees, dealing with an unpredictable and angry Qaddafi. But it would have been embroiled in a tragedy rather than a situation that now has a chance to end well.

<snip>

It is legitimate to challenge the Obama administration about its objectives and how it plans to achieve them. It’s reasonable to be concerned about the impact the air war will have on civilians if it continues indefinitely. We do not know what will happen next in Libya, or where this all will lead—we never do. But we do know what has likely been averted. And for that we should be grateful.

http://www.tnr.com/article/politics/85856/the-speed-paradox



A Libyan man with his face painted with Libyan rebellion and Qatari flag waves a flag as he takes part in a march gathering thousands of people in the streets of Benghazi on March 23, 2011 to show their support for an internationally-enforced no-fly zone over Libya.
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gateley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-11 10:02 AM
Response to Original message
1. Amen. The man DOES do a lot of good! nt
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robcon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-11 10:03 AM
Response to Original message
2. Huh? He's getting a lot of credit for stopping an atrocity.
The celebrations about the progress against Gadaffi rebound from Libya throughout the world, as the murderous attacks on protesters have stopped.
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kickysnana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-11 10:08 AM
Response to Original message
3. Depleted uranium? n/t
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Exultant Democracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-11 10:10 AM
Response to Original message
4. Perhaps if he had not hung the activist left out to dry they would have his back.
Keep running to the right Obama, I'm sure you will find that common ground with the republicans someday.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-11 10:21 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. So the
"activist left" doesn't support ending this atrocity because they don't have Obama's back?

"Keep running to the right Obama, I'm sure you will find that common ground with the republicans someday."

The right supports ending atrocities?

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cottonseed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-11 10:29 AM
Response to Reply #4
7. The "activist left". What a funny word.
So much bluster from group so worthless. Hanging out to dry? Nah, just not worth bothering with. I don't think the OP was talking about this group. They were talking media.. other groups that are effective.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-11 10:40 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. Deleted message
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Lisa D Donating Member (317 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-11 10:34 AM
Response to Reply #4
8. So criticism from the left is about spite, not policy?
That explains so much.
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Clio the Leo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-11 11:48 AM
Response to Reply #8
14. +1 nt
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alcibiades_mystery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-11 11:59 AM
Response to Reply #4
15. That's pretty much the definition of petulance
Edited on Mon Mar-28-11 11:59 AM by alcibiades_mystery
It's a wonder that you can't get more than 3% of the vote in any election! Pouting in the corner is not a campaign platform.
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robcon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-11 10:24 AM
Response to Original message
6. Here's some of the credit he's already getting...
In Libya, Obama Finally Did the Right Thing

Over the past few days, President Obama has surprised us. For weeks, he seemed committed to avoiding military action against Libya—even though Libyans were imploring America and the West to come to their aid. But at the very last minute, when Muammar Qaddafi seemed to be only days and perhaps hours away from retaking the remainder of his country by force, Obama decided to act. It was a decision we wish he would have arrived at weeks ago. But it was the right decision. And Obama deserves credit for having made it.

To understand why Obama’s decision was not only correct but really the only decent one that was available to him, it is necessary to contemplate what would be taking place in Libya right now if we had not intervened. Late last week, Qaddafi announced that his forces, having reestablished control over most of the country, were closing in on the rebel stronghold of Benghazi, and issued his now infamous warning to those who refused to give up. “We are coming tonight,” he said. “We will find you in your closets. We will have no mercy and no pity.” Had we not intervened to cripple his forces, it seems likely that, by now, Qaddafi would be in Benghazi and, undoubtedly, carrying out bloody reprisals against his opponents. The rebellion, moreover, would effectively be over, and any hopes of freedom that the Libyan people had been entertaining would be dead, at least in the near term.

Skeptics of the intervention (including TNR contributing editor Michael Walzer, whose thoughtful analysis can be found here) have argued that one of the mission’s flaws is that its goals are woefully unclear. Are we trying to topple Qaddafi? Are we merely trying to create a safe-haven for rebels in the east? These are fair questions, but it seems to us that the most immediate goals of the mission were quite clear: first, to prevent a slaughter in Benghazi, a slaughter that Qaddafi himself had promised was only hours away; and second, to tip the balance of power in the rebellion away from Qaddafi, so that his forces were unable to retake any more of the country, thus extinguishing the resistance for good. On these terms, the intervention has already been a success.
http://www.tnr.com/article/world/85511/in-libya-obama-finally-did-the-right-thing
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Keith Bee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-11 11:07 AM
Response to Reply #6
10. +1
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golfguru Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-11 11:23 AM
Response to Original message
11. Because we are fighting with borrowed money from China
China has atrocious human rights record, Tibet is enslaved by China,
China massacred student demonstrators at Tiananmen Square, Ordinary
Chinese can not travel abroad,,,,,,,,,,,and guess what?

China gets more IOU's from us and earn interest FOR EVER since we have no
chance of budget surplus as far as the eye can see, to pay off the principal.

So a WIN_WIN_WIN for China, USA gains nothing except more loan commitments.
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displacedvermoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-11 11:37 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. But I thought we stopped the masscres in China...
I thought we just dropped whatever we were doing and stopped massacres.
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VoteProgressive Donating Member (664 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-11 11:39 AM
Response to Original message
13. So far he has earned $800 million in credit! nt
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-11 12:52 PM
Response to Original message
16. Amnesty International: Thorough investigation urged over Libya rape case
Thorough investigation urged over Libya rape case

The Libyan authorities must thoroughly investigate the case of a woman who said she had been raped by forces loyal to Colonel Muammar al-Gaddafi, Amnesty International said today.

“Iman al-Obeidi’s allegations are stomach-churning. The Libyan authorities must immediately launch an independent and impartial investigation and bring those responsible to justice if the allegations are well-founded,” said Malcolm Smart, Amnesty International’s Middle East and North Africa Director

“It is extremely disturbing that Iman al-Obeidi was forcibly dragged away by Libyan security officials when she tried to speak to journalists. The authorities must say where she is now and guarantee her safety and well-being. If she is being detained, she should be released immediately."

"The Libyan authorities have a long record of silencing those who dare speak out against human rights violations. It is all the more worrying that they did not hesitate to do this, using heavy-handed methods, despite the presence of the international media."

Iman al-Obedi was detained on Saturday after bursting into a Tripoli hotel where international journalists had gathered and saying she had been raped.


Rape used 'as a weapon' in Libya

As Libya's opposition fighters push west, doctors are uncovering more victims from the front line.

Several doctors say they have found Viagra tablets and condoms in the pockets of dead pro-Gaddafi fighters, alleging that they were using rape as a weapon of war.

They say they have been treating female rape survivors who were allied with pro-democracy forces.

Furthermore, 175 people, including doctors, have been reported missing from Ajdabiya, and many have now been found to have been killed.


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Cali_Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-11 01:05 PM
Response to Original message
17. Because he has two additional wars going on and people are suspicious about ulterior motives
Especially when governments that are allied with the US are not held to the same standard as Gaddafi's government when they attack their own citizens.

Don't forget that Obama ran away from taking credit for this war from the very beginning. It was clear that he didn't want this action to be considered a US-only action. He wanted to attack Libya under the guise of the UN, France, UK and NATO.

But Everyone knows that NATO is just a front for the US military when you consider how much the US contributes to NATO. One needn't look any further than the Balkans and Afghanistan to see that the US is the real force behind NATO. Military expenditures also back that up.

BTW, many people are giving him credit like yourself.
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