Lot's of Trashing of Cornell West here in DUP Forum..Here's his REAL Speech...

[KoKo]

The REAL Cornell West....from Video of His Own Words...not filtered: (BTW...I've not ever been a fan of him...but this interview with Al Jazerra was an Incredible Diatribe from him that made me take a "second look." I think I thought of West as a"Gad Fly" ...making money off of "Black Resisitance" from the "Old 70's that is DEAD AND GONE. But....listening to this "Uncut" without Commercials on "Al Jazerra" without Blitzer....says to me that he's NOT some Toady that some DU'ers Said he was about.


You who have little time....get the Middle of the Snip/Clip AND then SEE what Cornell West is trying to get across!

It's a good watch...if you go to the Middle and then Listen/Watch.

http://english.aljazeera.net/programmes/rizkhan/2011/03/201132863311584728.html

[villager]

1. Predictably unrecc'd, sadly/inevitably...

n/t

[ProSense]

2. Cornel West is entertaining.

Like I said in the other thread, he is a philosopher. He's not running a country. His rants don't take into consideration the real forces that complicate his theories.

He doesn't have to deal with the Republican House or the Congress.

Yes, every Israeli and Palestinian life is equal. Now what?

He claims Obama, like Clinton, is an opportunist, doing whatever it takes to get re-elected?

What the hell does that mean? Obama not the community activist now. He's not MLK. He's the President, a politician.

West is naive if he believes that Obama can fill the dual roles of President and an activist leader like MLK.

West once said his criticisms of the President are Socratic, and that's exactly what they are.

[Bluenorthwest]

7. A person who decides to be a politician is a person who has

decided it would be alright to be an executioner, among other job duties. Your notion that only politicians should have value in discussing world issues and priorities is to me, limited, limiting, and a huge part of why our nation is chocking on its own mediocrity, when once we were better than that. No, West is not a policy wonk, nor a back room wheeler dealer, he never claims Republicans are 'honest brokers' and he calls gay people his brothers and sisters. Many aspects of the two men are very different, one from the other. But to claim that only compromise dealers and palm greasers are worth a listen is to promote a stagnation in our thinking, an atavism in our future path.
Most of the world's greatest thinkers and innovators have not been politicians, and precious few politicians have been great thinker or innovators. Can you name for me the political leaders you see as having influenced philosophy or science or the arts? Because I can spend all day showing you the cultural influences on each and every politician that ever drew breath. Socratic is not a negative, it describes a style of teaching. West says his criticisms of the President are attempts to teach and that is exactly what they are. The politician should learn at the feet of the philosopher. That is good, to be desired and longed for.

[ProSense]

8. Hmmmm?

" Your notion that only politicians should have value in discussing world issues and priorities is to me, limited, limiting, and a huge part of why our nation is chocking on its own mediocrity, when once we were better than that. "

No, that's your notion, as is the rest of your comment.

"The politician should learn at the feet of the philosopher. That is good, to be desired and longed for."

That doesn't change the point I made. The role of a politician and a philosopher are very different.

[Bluenorthwest]

9. Well your post was all about how West is 'entertaining'

and such, because he's not a politician. If your objective was not to denigrate the standing of West and others who are outside of Beltway politics, you should rethink what you wrote. You did not say 'they have different roles' you said 'West is entertaining'. He is a professor. An author of great standing. There is no need to denigrate the one man to pump up the other.
And as usual, you did not respond to a single question I asked you. Which would be discussing this. This is the second thread in which I have seen your 'West is an entertainer' piece posted. Thought I'd ask about your views, but as always, you answer a question with a question, the ultimate sign of disrespect toward your conversation partner. It is rude.

[ProSense]

10. "If your objective...you should rethink " Here's what you should do:

stop trying to read minds and put words (your mini rants) in someone else's mouth.

[Bluenorthwest]

11. So my opinion, like West's is a rant. What are your opinions?

I asked you to tell me which politicians you see as having had influence on fields outside of politics, a simple question. Asking a question is the opposite of putting words into a person's mouth. You made a point, I responded and asked you a question to inquire deeper. How is that a problem?
Why can you not just converse? Why the attacks? Why post again and again that others 'rant' and 'entertain' if you do not wish to discuss the subject? Why be on a discussion board if all you wish to do is declare, not discuss?
I repeat, it is rude in a conversation to ignore the questions one is asked, and instead respond with another question, or an accusation that the question was a statement ascribed to the other. It is just rude.

[ProSense]

13. "So my opinion, like West's is a rant." Who said West's statement was a rant?

See, that's putting a word in someone's mouth.

"I asked you to tell me which politicians you see as having had influence on fields outside of politics, a simple question. Asking a question is the opposite of putting words into a person's mouth. You made a point, I responded ..."

Yes, you did, with a mini rant (that had nothing to do with my point).

A person who decides to be a politician is a person who has decided it would be alright to be an executioner, among other job duties. Your notion that only politicians should have value in discussing world issues and priorities is to me, limited, limiting, and a huge part of why our nation is chocking on its own mediocrity, when once we were better than that. No, West is not a policy wonk, nor a back room wheeler dealer, he never claims Republicans are 'honest brokers' and he calls gay people his brothers and sisters. Many aspects of the two men are very different, one from the other. But to claim that only compromise dealers and palm greasers are worth a listen is to promote a stagnation in our thinking, an atavism in our future path.
Most of the world's greatest thinkers and innovators have not been politicians, and precious few politicians have been great thinker or innovators. Can you name for me the political leaders you see as having influenced philosophy or science or the arts? Because I can spend all day showing you the cultural influences on each and every politician that ever drew breath. Socratic is not a negative, it describes a style of teaching. West says his criticisms of the President are attempts to teach and that is exactly what they are. The politician should learn at the feet of the philosopher. That is good, to be desired and longed for.

"Socratic is not a negative"

Did I say it was?

[Armstead]

17. Obama claimed to be both

He portrayed as someone who would break out of the stale mold of the conventional politician, and used lofty idealistic rhetoric to separate himself from the stagnant status quo.

You are correct that a political leader -- especially a president -- has to contend with a lot of pragmatic realities.

However the difference between what Obama portrayed himself as and the endless string of concessions that have only served to harden the status quo in place.

[ProSense]

19. Yeah,

there is that debate.

"He portrayed as someone who would break out of the stale mold of the conventional politician, and used lofty idealistic rhetoric to separate himself from the stagnant status quo."

Guess what that makes him? Yup, a politician.

The counter could be that the "stagnant status quo" wasn't going to be undone and unraveled in two years. There are things that are being labeled as codifying the status quo simply because the change isn't immediately apparent, e.g., the health care law.

[Armstead]

20. That's why people get cynical....And why the GOP capitalizes on it

One of the reason the GOP won last year is that they took the mantle of "outside reformers"

IT was phony, but since people were so cynical, they decided to vote out the Democrats, because the Status quo remained as entrenched as ever since 08, despite Obama's lofty campaign rhetoric.

No things cannot be changed overnight. but they will NEVER change as long as politicians behave one way when seeking votes, but go back to the same old same old once in office.

[ProSense]

22. Hmmmm?

"IT was phony, but since people were so cynical, they decided to vote out the Democrats, because the Status quo remained as entrenched as ever since 08, despite Obama's lofty campaign rhetoric."


They decided? Well, they got what they voted for. Just goes to prove that voting shouldn't be based on cynicism.

[Armstead]

23. I agree it shouldn't.......And politicians should not encourage it

I sometimes think the biggest problem is the attitude that many people have that "all politicians are phonies and they're all the same."

That's not right, but politicians have to work harder to dispel that stereotype.

[ProudDad]

26. "West is naive if he believes that Obama can fill the dual roles of President and activist leader"

Within limits FDR did -- because FDR probably actually gave a shit about working people...

[Iterate]

3. I savored every word, twice now. Thanks

[KoKo]

6. Thought it was "Pretty Good, Too!" Listeniing to whole thing...from second part.

We are so used to "Sound Bytes" we don't often "follow through" on stuff we read.

But...we all are distracted...we have kids to feed, food to put on the table, and we work so hard there's not much time left to spend creating a good life with Husband, Wife, Kids and talking with the REST of our society. We live alone and isolated ...tied to our CrackBerries, I-Phones, I-Pods to keep UP ON CORPORATE AMERICA...to GET AHEAD... And those of us WHO CAN...need to do this.

But, there's an "underclass" who can't afford our "Toys or Business Liasons" who are angry because THEY don't have a PIECE of THIS ACTION. They have been left out or Downsized or Layed Off with nothing but getting WELFARE to SURVIVE! They don't want to live on some PERPETUAL DOLE...but, that's Clinton, Bush II, Obama America...and track that back to Reagan who started it (but, the GUY IS DEAD) ...so WHEN do we GO AFTER THE LIVING who TRASHED OUR ECONOMY.and DID THIS HORRIBLE THING to the AMERICAN PEOPLE with WAll Street BAILOUT and the STUFF THAT GOES ON AND ON by the BANKSTERS...who brought the SYSTEM DOWN and have NEVER...EVER...NEVER...EVER...BEEN HELD ACCOUNTABLE FOR WHAT THEY DID by OBAMA or his HEAD OF JUSTICE DEPT. ....ERIC HOLDER!

WHAT THE FUCK are THEY WAITING FOR?

TELL ME?

[KoKo]

4. you didn't even bother to go to the Middle and Listen?

I think that's very sad for Dem Person who is "supposed to be" an "Open Mind" to other opinions.

But, never mind...West has a following in the Black Community that will eventually get it's voice and speak out.

No discussion about this... says more about YOU and YOUR BIAS than Cornell West.

But..we need to know the differences of opinion. And...there will be "others" who will click the link...and read and digest, and think, and be silent for a little while longer. It's Okay. As I said in my post..I have not been a fan of Cornell West...but thought THIS explanation of his opinion was worth a watch.

I'll let it stand and take the hits..It's still a GOOD WATCH...from the MIDDLE to the END.

[Tarheel_Dem]

24. "West has a following in the Black Community". Not outside the Nation of Islam.

Been to a black barber/beauty shop lately? Dr. West isn't as beloved as you'd have us believe. If anything, his constant attacks on this president have alienated him from the community which once celebrated him. You certainly don't have to take my word for it, just as I won't take yours. :hi:

[Union Scribe]

28. Ah yes, the barbershop again.

Maybe in your next post telling us what all black people think, you could set the scene at a different stereotypical meeting place.

[Tarheel_Dem]

29. Just telling it like I see it. The church & the barber/beauty shop are the

hubs of what's happening the AA community, but you have every right to dispute that. Ask Tom Joyner why Tavis & Cornell haven't been invited on the TJMS cruise for the past two years. The answer is because Tom wants to sell tickets, and that wouldn't happen with these two gentlemen. I know, 'cause I heard about it in the barber/beauty shop.
:rofl:

Seriously, they are pretty much persona non grata in the 93% of AA's who approve of this president, which is why they've stooped to trying to attract teabaggers as patrons. Good luck with that!
:rofl:

edit to add: there is nothing stereotypical about my barber/beauty shop references. Obviously, you're not AA?

[AtomicKitten]

5. I like Dr. Cornel West very much and don't begrudge him his opinion.

[hollowdweller]

16. I can't see how anyone on the DU would dislike Cornel West

Everything he's says I've heard repeated over and over on the DU and he's got a bigger microphone.

In a JUST WORLD he would be more famous than Rush, Beck, O'Reilly or even most of the Democratic talking heads. But he's black.

[uponit7771]

27. I don't know too many people who are aware of West & Smileys history with Obama that LIKE him at ALL

...They both come off very petty at the least and neither have kind words for Obama because of percieved "snubs" and therefore don't have a lot of credibility.

I don't like it when they use sophistry in their arguments either, they're not politicians.

[OutNow]

12. Sit up and Listen!!!

Dr. West speaks what all of us think about. His eloquent, fact-based, sermon is impossible to refute. So opponents smear and disparage, but are unable to show specific errors in his approach.

It is time to sit up and listen.

Also thanks to the poster. I didn't realize Dr. West had a new book out. I hope it's on Kindle.

[NorthCarolina]

14. Excellent. Thanks for the link. nt

[hollowdweller]

15. I LOVE Cornel West

I live up a hollow in appalachia with no cable tv and crappy internet and to be honest I'd never heard of him till WV Public Radio started carrying Smiley and West.

Now one thing my wife and I look forward to on Sunday evenings facing another week of work is to hear Smiley and West. Great music, he and Smiley are funny as hell and after he says something my wife who used to be a republican but turned democrat after 16 years of being a beat on public servant will be raising her thumbs up and yelling "amen" How far she's come when we first met in college she was in the "young republicans" club.

Love Brother West. His goodbye "Stay strong my brothers and sisters of all colors" makes us smile going into another hard week.

[jefferson_dem]

18. I loves me some Cornel.

Don't always agree with everything he says, but I could listen to him talk all day. Good stuff. Thanks.

[Beacool]

21. Very good interview, thank you for posting.

Everyone here should listen to it, very instructive.

:)

[ProudDad]

25. I shall be hearing him in person this Friday...

He always has something interesting to say...