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Cillizza: "Why Health Care Will Pass (and what it means.)"

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Clio the Leo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 06:19 PM
Original message
Cillizza: "Why Health Care Will Pass (and what it means.)"
I remember what nine years ago was like. I even remember what 15 years ago was like. I would ALWAYS rather have Dems controlling Congress and the White House passing adqeuate bills than Republicans passing anything. Obviously, you are well within your right to disagree with me.

Pick your poison.

While the deal-making has left many liberals cold about the final product, it has also virtually guaranteed that the President will be able to hold a Rose Garden signing ceremony sometime next year, declaring victory in the overhaul of one of the stickiest wickets of social policy in the country.

The broad strategy adopted by the White House toward health care is based on a single fundamental belief: coming out of this extended fight with nothing to show for it amounts to a political disaster not just for the President but for congressional Democrats as well.

"It's a huge problem if nothing gets passed," said one senior Democratic strategist. "Huge."

The problem would be two-fold, according to the source.

First, it would makes a pivot to a focus on jobs and the economy -- the two front-of-mind issues for most Americans -- virtually impossible for Obama as he would be faced with months of "what if" and "what now" questions about the future of his number one legislative priority. (Look back to the aftermath of former President Bill Clinton's failure to reform health care for evidence of how much damage the collapse of a major legislative initiative can have on a president's agenda going forward.)

Second, the failure of a health care bill would substantially erode two basic pillars on which Obama was elected -- "competence" and "change", according to the source.

Obama promised a new way of doing business in Washington, a promise based on a belief that his election could break the partisan gridlock that has gripped the nation's capitol for decades and make government work for the average American again.

With the exception of three Republican Senators casting votes for his economic stimulus package earlier this year, Obama has struggled to make those promises a reality. Without a health care bill, the gap between Obama's statements about changing how Washington works on the campaign trail and what he has accomplished (or didn't accomplish) in office would be broadcast for all the country to see.

Obama has made the case publicly and privately to Democratic Members of Congress that whether they like it or not, their fates are intimately intertwined with his. His successes are their successes and vice versa.

He -- and his senior staff -- are certain to repeat that argument ad nauseam in the coming days to convince liberals in the Congress that any talk of killing the bill on principle amounts to political suicide. (Are you listening Governor Dean?)

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/thefix/
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Armstead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 06:20 PM
Response to Original message
1. Why do you think poison has to be our only choice?
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Clio the Leo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 06:22 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. I was told this bill was the end of health care reform .....
Edited on Wed Dec-16-09 06:23 PM by Clio the Leo
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Armstead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 06:37 PM
Response to Reply #2
8. I was referring to this
"I would ALWAYS rather have Dems controlling Congress and the White House passing adqeuate bills than Republicans passing anything. Obviously, you are well within your right to disagree with me.

Pick your poison."

That is the attitude I was referring to. If we do not expect and demand more from those who supposedly represent us, then we will always get less.


As for health care, I do believe that this bill is going to lock us into a rotten system for a long time. I don't believe any politician is going to want to, or be able to, do anything else for a long time, considering what political a debacle this has been.



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Clio the Leo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 08:46 PM
Response to Reply #8
15. Well, then my post was missing some quotes.....
.... I dont think the bill is poison. I think its a good bill that would improve the lives of many people, help reduce the deficit and cast a favorable light on the President and Democratic members of Congress.

But if I had said that, I would have been met with 10 replies telling me that this bill is, in fact, a "piece of shit" as I have already been informed once today. ;)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=433&topic_id=63471#63981

This will, no doubt, be evidenced by the fact that at least 10 replies are being written as you read this to the comment I just made. I was trying not to lose everyone before they got to the meat of the post.

I was working from the presumption that YOU ALL thought it was poison. My point being that the worst thing the Dems can pass is still better than the BEST things the GOP can do and that failure to pass this bill could send us closer to a GOP controlled government once again.

As I said, you are more than welcome to disagree with me. Legislative "failure" now .... or elective failure later. The choice is clear in my mind.

Do you REALLY think that we're at the point we're at now because we didn't "demand enough." So when those who were banging on the WH door demanding single payer, were they not banging loudly enough? Did they not fight hard enough? Did they give up too soon?

Or did those who are upset now fail to asses the reality of what we up against and what this Congress was capable of passing?
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 06:24 PM
Response to Original message
3. meh. they've backed themselves into a very dark corner- they're fucked either way
Yeah, it'll pass and outrage over rising rates, insufficient subsidies and most of all mandates, will fuck Obama and the dems just as surely as signing nothing.
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CaliforniaPeggy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 06:25 PM
Response to Original message
4. Competence.
In my eyes, anyway, he has largely lost that battle.

This bill would have been so much better if he'd played his cards more intelligently.

So. Much. Better.

I am extremely disappointed in him over this topic.

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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 06:26 PM
Response to Original message
5. Then Obama and Congress needs to provide us with real health care reform,
Not this corporate happy crap that provides a mandated monopoly for the insurance industry. Obama and Congress should not demand that we support this POS just so Obama looks bad. I'm sorry, even though I worked and voted for the man (albeit with reservations), I'm not going to cut off my nose to spite my face, blindly supporting the man as he sells us out to Corporate America.

He wants support, he needs to earn it, it's that simple.
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Phx_Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 06:31 PM
Response to Original message
6. Amen. Allowing the GOP to control either house would be
disasterous beyond belief.
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Robbins Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 06:36 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. 2010
I am royally pissed over the sellout but here In Missouri I will be voting for my Democratic
Congressman and voting for robin Carnahan for the Senate.All Republicans are worse.

All I hope Is In 2010 they work on things to get the base out to vote.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 06:43 PM
Response to Original message
9. Like you said on some other
OP..I don't think he's going to sign it in the Rose Garden.
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Fire1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 07:07 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. But he IS going to sign it. That being the point. n/t
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 07:11 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. I guess you'd have to see the other thread to
get what I was refering to. We'll see exactly what he does sign and where.
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Fire1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 07:17 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. I only saw one predicting that he would be signing in the
rose garden with numerous pic heavy threads and future photos of flotus, the girls and Bo. I assume that's the one to which you are referring.
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Clio the Leo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 08:48 PM
Response to Reply #9
16. He may be signing it on the street outside of Dr. Dean's house...
.... at the rate we're going. :)

(lol sadly or not, he's not that spiteful..... but that's what *I* would do)
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Tansy_Gold Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 06:50 PM
Response to Original message
10. promises?
"Obama promised a new way of doing business in Washington, a promise based on a belief that his election could break the partisan gridlock that has gripped the nation's capitol for decades and make government work for the average American again."


The lie in that quote is that anything in the currently proposed "health care bill" actually makes the case that government works for the average American again. It's a giveaway to the insurance companies - -Lieberman knows it, Obama knows it, Max Baucus knows it, Harry Reid knows it. But the fact that they won't come out and SAY it means that they are trying to make the rest of us believe it's something it's not.

"Average" Americans are being given nothing in this bill, at least not as far as I can see, other than an order to pay up. Those who will pay up with subsidies will be benefited only by the largesse of those who can "afford" to pay on their own. The working class pays and pays and pays and pays and pays, and no one mentions that the insurance companies who by their nature add nothing but take away much when it comes to actual health CARE pay nothing. It's a win-win-win-win-win-win-win for them.

It's a bad bill not just because it doesn't do enough for "Average Americans," but also because it does so much more for the elites.

If Obama really and truly believed what he led us to believe he did, then he'd be out there screaming from the rooftops about what this bill really is. His silence is tacit approval, political strategy notwithstanding. If the rest of the Dems are tied to him in success or failure, it seems he forgot to take the possibility of failure into consideration.

And he has failed, big time.


TG2012
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Clio the Leo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 08:50 PM
Response to Reply #10
17. lol, are you thinking that Palin woman will do better?
Or are you refering to a primary?

If it's the later, you'd better start saving your money.
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Tansy_Gold Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 09:53 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. the answer to that, in two words
fuck no.



TG2012
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rockymountaindem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 07:11 PM
Response to Original message
13. And the effect of putting a non-subsidized mandate on middle class individuals and families
with the assumption that they could pay 15% of their income to premiums will do, what, exactly, for our electoral prospects? We'd be crucified. If the Senate bill is the final product (hopefully it won't be) we're stuck between a rock and a hard place, and the die is already cast.
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UrbScotty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-17-09 05:26 PM
Response to Original message
19. Me too, Clio! More and better Democrats!!
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