Are you glad that a government shutdown was averted

[ProSense]

[Davis_X_Machina]

1. Guess I'm selfish...

...and don't understand politics.

I’ve got a civilian DoD employee for a brother, my two kids are in college with outstanding federal financial aid and work-study issues, and exams coming up they can’t take if their accounts aren’t current, a wife flying overseas on business who’s going to have to at a minimum clear customs on re-entry, and perhaps deal with a consulate while abroad, and a Korean-War vet father whose health care is pretty much all VA at this point…so yeah, I’m being selfish.

[Forkboy]

2. Seems like a trick question....

:P

[jaxx]

3. I'm glad.

Cutting off your nose to spite your face doesn't produce a future.

[ClassWarrior]

6. Since when did "standing up for one's values" become "cutting off your nose?"

NGU.

[jaxx]

7. When values cease to have value and spite is the driver.

[ClassWarrior]

8. Why do you think that "spite is the driver?" You read minds? Over the internet?

:crazy:

NGU.

[jaxx]

12. No, I just read the posts.

[ClassWarrior]

37. Sounds like a lot of spite alright. But not from whom you're trying to imply.

NGU.

[ZombieHorde]

28. I don't think your President Obama picture is very effective.

Looks like President Obama is turning his back on us.

or

Looks like the picture is suggesting we stab him in the back. Get his back!

Perhaps I am just being weird here, and no one else sees the picture that way.

[OHdem10]

4. Yes, but did we have to give away the store???

[ClassWarrior]

5. Of course. But at what an unnecessarily high cost!!

NGU.

[AndyTiedye]

9. It Could Have Been MUCH Worse

[ZombieHorde]

29. Almost all situations could have been MUCH worse. nt

[ClassWarrior]

38. It Could Have Been Much BETTER.

NGU.

[AndyTiedye]

39. Not With This Congress, It Couldn't

Trying to find enough semi-sane Republicans to pass a budget is damn near impossible, and it does require some horrible compromises,
but what other options are there? The Teabaggers want to shut down the government. That is their goal. They make no secret of it.

[ClassWarrior]

43. Foregone conclusion, so why try? Why even mount the fight? Why even use the rhetoric?

:eyes:

NGU.

[andym]

10. Yes but the price is high,

It will hurt the poor and the economy and will in turn the President's re-election chances.

[MH1]

21. Would you still say 'Yes' if Boehner had gotten everything he'd asked for?

Here is what might be the full list:
http://www.ombwatch.org/files/budget/OMB_Watch-HR1_Policy_Riders.pdf

which of those he actually got, I still don't know.

Not asking judgmentally, just curious where the line is?

[andym]

23. No

Boehners' full list is too draconian. Even the current level of cuts is damaging to the economy and sends the wrong message.
Problem is that a government shutdown of any significant length is catastrophic.

[vaberella]

26. In my case...it would be. This isn't just about Boehner or the GOP, it's about the American people.

Many on DU seem to forget that shit when they complain and moan and whine that we gave into the GOP. You shut it down and depending how long these fools go on with the shutdown means families in the US (who are already hurting) will hurt some more. I hate hearing this shit.

This site and so many people on here and other liberal sites are like the W.H. and the Government doesn't care about the working families and or unemployed. Obama is a coportatist and doesn't care about how American families will be affected. In this situation---this would directly affect working families. These are the people of America and some of whom are not working.

A government shut down slows down business growth and business movement, affects families who work for the government. Teachers, Doctors who treat medicaid/medicare, affects the elderly getting their pension and so on and so forth. So when I hear Dems crying me a river on us giving it up to the Repubs---I have to wonder how selfish are people.

How so many seem to forget that this isn't about Obama, it's not the Boehner and the GOP---or how it affects them; but how the fuck this shit affects us and for many of us, it would be a nightmare. Even for a few days. When there was a MTA strike in New York a few years back---New York lost millions a day. A government shut down affects people a great deal. We need to recognize that.

[Throckmorton]

11. Yes, for a very selfish reason

Throckmorton Jr is rafting on the Colorado this week with a group from his school. They were informed yesterday that if the Government shutsdown, they would have 48 hours to vacate the river. Which would have cut the trip more than in half, and as he planned and saved for a year for this trip, I felt kind of bad for them.

[alp227]

13. with all the tea party noise a shutdown would've led to a blame Obama drumbeat

the 1995 shutdown was during a good economy and Clinton still got re-elected next year as it was easily forgettable

yet 2011 is a way different time with a worse economy so it'll be easier for the right wing to take advantage of a shutdown and pin it all on obama given that the president vetoes the budget bill even though the president, senate majority leader, and house speaker were all in the talk process, and that congress votes on the bills...it's easier to blame the president rather than multiple congress members

and after 1995 it took the Clinton impeachment that many found pointless for several republicans to be voted out of congress

[vaberella]

14. There are people out there that wanted Obama to call bluffs--which means they pushed Gov. shut down.

n/t

[Sky Masterson]

15. I hadn't realized the government was ever started.

:shrug: House passes a zillion bills under Pelosi..They die because of republican Filibusters.
We get Boehner and a bunch of fuck-stick teabaggers and they don't do anything but help the rich and police the Vagina.
This government has been slowing since Clinton and rolled to a stop under Obama.

[onpatrol98]

16. Yep...glad

We send these people to Washington to work. Not just to suntan, cheat on their wives, and earn big bucks from us and lobbyists. They finally did something to earn their keep. Yep...they probably did give away the store. It's hard hiring good help these days.

If they had done this last year...we wouldn't have had this drama.:smoke:

[Esurientes]

17. Selfish me

I woke up this morning and the first thing I thought of before checking the news was how much I could risk taking out of DS's college funds to loan DD who's married to an Army E5.

Last night I was calculating how much I could send to groups dedicated to saving the Chesapeake Bay, my main recreation area, if their federal funding was cut.

[Mass]

18. Happy for those who will not be furloughed but worried about what we conceded in the meantime

The word out there is that the winner of this story is Boehner, and that Obama is the loser, an impression that will be hard to fight.

[MH1]

19. If I can find a good summary of what is actually in the agreement, maybe I can answer

True, my 'search' so far as consisted of a quick scan of Google News and a somewhat lengthier scan of DU. Still I got nothin'. I know PP was saved for now, but I just saw that it looks like they kept the rule banning any funds (not just federal) for family planning in DC. WTF? DC doesn't even have a rep in Congress right?

Anyway until I see a good summary I won't know. Right now I am leaning 'no' to your poll. These fuckers don't want a government, let's show them what that means. And I want a rider from the Dems for the next negotiation: Cut Defense department by AT LEAST as much the average cut from the entire budget (i.e. if the overall budget reduction is 5%, Defense has to be cut at least 5%). With corresponding troop reductions across all deployed and garrison forces.

And this is from someone who generally supports the military and robust Defense spending (for reasons I won't go into here). BUT if we refuse to have a tax structure that supports it, it MUST be cut equally with everything else. Period. And we need to expedite withdrawal of forces from conflict zones so we can make further cuts as needed to support over half the country's 'don't tax me, waah!' habit.

Fuck em all.

[DCBob]

20. Of course.. nothing good could have come from it.

imo.

[Fearless]

22. In exchange for giving the GOP everything they wanted? Not a chance.

This BS meme about the shutdown would be the Tea Party winning is complete horseshit.

[bvar22]

24. I agree.

Avoiding the "shutdown" is a good thing,
but NOT for the PRICE we had to pay.

More bad Kabuki Theater,
Like the extension of the Bush/Obama Tax Cuts for kazillionaires,
(but we helped the unemployed!!!)

Or Health Insurance MANDATES,
(but NOW PECS can BUY Insurance!!!)

Or Starting NEW Wars in Oil Rich Countries,
(But he is a really bad guy!)

....just BAD Kabuki Theater and SPIN.




Who will STAND and FIGHT for THIS American Majority?
Lofty Rhetoric, Broken Promises, and Whiny Excuses mean NOTHING now.
"By their WORKS you will know them,"
and by their WORKS they will be judged.

[vaberella]

25. When I think of the thousands of homes that would be missing a paycheck or two over this.

Yeah...it's worth the price. I don't care about the GOP when I think of the masses.

[bvar22]

27. Thats the problem.

You are willing to eat a whole shit pie
just to get a crumb of cornbread.

When Democrats STOP begging for CRUMBS,
and start DEMANDING Economic Justice for the Working Class & The Poor,
WE can have REAL "change".

Until then,
"Thank You, Sir.
May I please have another?"


Obama HAS an Overwhelming MANDATE from the American people.

WHY doesn't he use it?

[vaberella]

30. You have to recognize something...

That's not the American people. That's the people who participate in those polls. Who could be anyone...you ask the majority of people on DU if they participated in the poll and they'll say no. The poll is not fully reflective of the masses and people need to get that.

Secondly, when people are looking at this--as outsiders. As people who depend on their poltician to look out for them. They need laymans terms. I think Obama does it, but it gets muffled by the twists of the louder GOP party and most of whom don't give a fuck about reason.

Third, Americans think in the now. They are not looking about 2 weeks down the line let alone a year or 10 years. You have really have to come to accept that. And because of this way of thinking the way things are done are mainly for the present and not looking towards the future. Obama---in many occasions has tried to look for the future. He's usually framed his way of thinking about pushing the future.

But look at the Congress he has. Have you seriously there and looked. When the GOP fringe (which is all of them) are running on an idea----reason means nothing. When they control the House---there is nothing we can do to stop them. They were the minority and were able to obstruct with the limited power they had. Dems do this--who are already seen as Liberals, anarchists, socialists, or minority supporters---or just generally all horrible stigmas; they are seen as ruining the nation. We don't have the same political capital no matter our political popularity---when it comes to the US.

That being said...considering all this--you take the crumbs which look more like low-hanging fruit until you can do better or hopefully do better. I hope Obama next time around gets a nice set of Progressive Dems, although I'm not very hopeful with the nation we're in. Voting matters, elections matter, and when people keep going Right or voting Republican---I don't see how so much blame is thrown on Dems when we have to take responsibility for our actions.

[bvar22]

33. If we continue lurching to the Right chasing crumbs,

how long will it be before we can "do better"?

....especially when we ARE trading Long Term Policy for a few immediate temporary crumbs?

[AndyTiedye]

31. We Can Demand All We Want. We Haven't Got the Votes to Get It

[bvar22]

32. Do some reseaerch, and find out what LBJ did...

...when He didn't have the votes."

When Obama didn't have the votes" to pass his Supplemental War Appropriations in 2008,
he went to the Progressive Caucus and GOT the votes.

White House Threats to Progressive Congressmen
http://www.commondreams.org/view/2009/06/17-5

"Strong and successful presidents (meaning those who get what they want - whether that happens to be good for the country or not) do not accept "the best deal on the table". They take out their carpentry tools and the build the goddam piece of furniture themselves. Strong and successful presidents do not get dictated to by the political environment. They reshape the environment into one that is conducive to their political aspirations."

"If we don't fight hard enough for the things we stand for,
at some point we have to recognize that we don't really stand for them."
--- Paul Wellstone

[AndyTiedye]

34. LBJ Was An Old Washington Insider Who Knew Where All The Bodies Were Buried

We don't have anyone like that anymore. All the old ones are gone, and we haven't been able to hold power long enough to get any new ones.

[bvar22]

35. "We don't have anyone like that anymore."

Obama fought his way to the top IN CHICAGO!!!
Don't tell me that he doesn't know HOW the game is played.
He is playing it well, and getting exactly what he wants,
for himself AND his friends.


"There are forces within the Democratic Party who want us to sound like kinder, gentler Republicans.
I want us to compete for that great mass of voters that want a party that will stand up for working Americans."
---Paul Wellstone

[AndyTiedye]

36. He Hasn't Been in DC Long Enough to Work The Way LBJ Did

Neither Obama nor any other Democrat has any leverage over the Republicans.

[phleshdef]

40. A shutdown had the potential to screw with lives a lot more than the agreed to cuts, IMO.

The down sides to these cuts can not be ignored. But at the same time, I think people in general will feel a lot less impact from that than the immediate impact that would be felt by the government being shutdown for anything beyond a paltry length of time. We are talking about FHA loans being halted, an obscene amount of federal workers basically getting laid off and nearly a complete halt in funding to a great number of the programs that had funding reduced and programs that weren't even touched. The risk of enduring a shut down may have paid off politically for President Obama (or even maybe not), but in any event, it would have been a very irresponsible thing to allow to happen while unemployment is still hovering around 9%.

[TheKentuckian]

41. You are in a loop that sacrifices the future and certainly prohibits systemic change

in a desperate attempt to mitigate present sacrifice but still making sacrifices and lining up future sacrifices because each time the hijackers have more hostages.

What you favor is a death spiral with almost no possibility of escape because you lose the fundamental argument which ensures the game is only played on their side of the 50 yard line.

Winners never play not to lose. You espouse making it a way of life, in fact you favor not only playing for a tie but a game of losing by as little as possible.

[phleshdef]

44. Spare me your political emo bullshit.

"a death spiral with no possibility of escape!"

If I wanted this shit in my life, I'd dress in black and crank up some Nine Inch Nails and write shitty poetry while cutting myself and crying.

[TheKentuckian]

47. A pretty weak minded and silly evasion. Creative way to maintain your lil bubble.

Knowing you are intentionally engaging in a strategy that accepts the basic premise of the opposition and cedes more and more ground with each new skirmish, is pretty ballsy to assume all the sudden the wind will change and the ground given will be ours again.

It doesn't even make sense. Put down the rose colored tequila.

[PufPuf23]

49. I could give a shit because the legislative "crisis"

was a sham complete with marketing plan with some coordination of convergent interests no doubt.

Yum! Yum! Fed bullshit. Please smile.

Those comfortable apologists -- one could assume -- can be as self-righteous and cruel and let's not omit ammoral and stupid as a zombie puke. You are welcome for the enlightenment.

[zigzag69]

42. Yes and No

Yes for the good of the country. No because I could have used a couple of days off. ;)

[lunatica]

45. Here in California we've had to take furlough days all last year

It isn't fun.

[craigmatic]

46. I'm not sure. We gave away so much just to keep things running. I'm leaning towards no.

[Douglas Carpenter]

48. yes because I have an been tentatively offered a job for a largely federally funded project

any delay - could have delayed or even killed this job offer which I desperately want.

[calimary]

50. If the teabaggers are for it, I'm against it.

Because if they want it, it's got something to do with 13th century thinking or covert racism, or both.

That's ALL they're about.

Did they raise ANY sort of stink when bush was breaking the bank on his two wars and tax cuts we couldn't afford and squandering Clinton's surplus - WHILE his so-called vice president was going around the Sunday talk shows flatly declaring that "deficits don't matter"? Anybody remember that one? I'm really surprised that we still have yet to hear a SINGLE Democrat or even someone like Rachel Maddow bring up that reminder in public.

Let's be frank and not mince words. The only reason the teabaggers even exist at all is because:

A) there's a Democrat in the White House,

and

B) there's a black guy in the White House and he's not the janitor.

If there were a republi-CON in the White House, if john mcsame had won in 2008, we'd be hearing NONE of this. And we'd be seeing NONE of them. I was ALMOST gonna say something like "hmmmm... sounds like it'd almost be worth it..." but NO. CANNOT go there!