Let's say I have an 80 year old car.

[DFab420]

Every decade or so I lift the hood up and make a few changes here and there to keep it running...

Now let say after 85 years of not really paying attention to my car, she is starting to run a bit inefficiently. She leaks gas sometimes, and the money I put into it seems to disappear into some black void of disrepair. Some rules of the road have changed and amount of drivers out there has increased dramatically

I hired a new mechanic the other day. He told me I had to take parts of my 85 year old car and replace them with something new?!! Can you believe the nerve of this man, trying to get me to change and alter something after 85 years!!!!!!


Ok. This metaphor is running thin but seriously. Social Security isn't a sacred cow. Medicare and Medicaid should be open to discussion if Obama thinks it can run better. Getting rid of the programs, no fucking way. Updating, reforming, cutting, and changing a system to meet the challenges of this modern life. Yes please.

[gateley]

1. You're right! I've tended to view these as "all or nothing" issues. Time to review

and make them better if we can.

[peace13]

2. let's say I have been making payments for forty years sometimes double payments..

depending on the circumstances. These payments are for a car in my golden years. Now I paid right along and when it came time to receive the car folks told my that the car was an entitlement and as far as they could tell I wasn't entitled to a car but a bicycle. In the meantime I need to continue to pay double for the car that I am not going ot get. Really, am I supposed to feel like the exchange has been equitable?

[DFab420]

5. That would be awful. But that hasn't happened.

Seriously. I mean I have not heard of a single person not receiving the Social Security benefits.

I could be mistaken, and if I am then please point me in the right direction there. But I feel comfortable in saying that Social Security is still solvent, still paying out its entitlements, and those who need it get it.

Again. I may be wrong

[Sherman A1]

37. Precisely

It's about changing the rules in the middle of the game. It's the social contract. For those years, the deal was you work, you pay into the system and you will get "X" in return for following the rules. Now as we near the time to get "X" it seems the goal posts are to be "adjusted" (moved back) "just ever so slightly" so you will not get "X" buy will have to work longer and get less..


Sorry, they are ringing up NO SALE here.

[mkultra]

40. "Double payment"? how does that fit the SS model?

[peace13]

41. As a small business owner I pay both halves of the SS payment..

for myself and my employees. On your W2 (up until this year) you paid 6.2% into SS. Your employer put in an additional 6.2%. That is how it works. When you work for yourself you pay both halves.

[DCKit]

3. The simple truth is they don't want to pay back what's been borrowed against SS.

Treasury debt to SS accounts for a good chunk of the total national debt, and that's just too much money for them not to want to get their hands on.

[Warren Stupidity]

4. lets say my pension fund is being robbed....

how about that analogy?

[DFab420]

7. Sure.. but it isn't

I mean, literally, I have not seen that happen at all.

It's returns might not be the greatest, Social Security payments have always lagged behind private retirement fund payouts, but still the checks are still going out.

I said this above too, I might be wrong but I have yet to hear of a single person not getting their SS check because SS is broke.

[Fuddnik]

10. Mine was.

Along with thousands of others at the plant.

[DFab420]

15. ..Thats your pension plan.

And I am so terribly sorry to hear that. It's awful when private companies don't live up to the responsibilities they owe their workers.

However. Your SS check wasn't what was taken from you.

[damntexdem]

12. It's not broke. It's ahead of the game. The Repukes want to rob it blind.

Which means that they want to rob us blind.

[Warren Stupidity]

30. it ain't an 80 year old care either

however the plan is to con us into agreeing to let them rob our pension plan.

[patrice]

6. I agree with you, but there is a legitimate point to be made about the process in which this is to

occur: the relative levels of ignorance and lack of responsible involvement on the issue amongst the general population; the fact that about half of the "mechanics" who will work on the fix prefer to not actually fix this car, so they can extract more quid-pro-quo from it for their buddies; the "fix" is going down during the worst economic conditions, making all of the parts even more expensive than they would otherwise have been and, thus, limiting how much/when can be done for the car . . . .

I don't think any of this sort of stuff means the car should not be fixed, but that we should be aware and react accordingly to the situation, which doesn't mean to reduce our expectations for the fix, but to incorporate these factors into how WE we react with the "mechanics" in order to achieve what we want for the car.

[DFab420]

9. +1

[Raine1967]

8. Updating, yes. Cutting no.

I am wary of what reform means in this modern life. These days reform isn't modern and it isn't about life.

[damntexdem]

13. It's not reform, it's vandalism.

We should call it what it is.

[Warren Stupidity]

29. the fuckers aren't planning to raise benefits

how seriously fucking stupid are we being?

[damntexdem]

11. Bullhshit! It's about targeting the most-successful social program ever.

This is an attempt to kill a highly-successful, fully-funded (for decades to come) program.

And attacks on Medicare aim to kill the most-efficient healthcare coverage program in the U.S. and the mainstay for older Americans.

Defend them now. Do needed reforms when adults are back in charge in both houses of Congress.

unrec

[DFab420]

14. What attacks? If you read through the cuts on the table

Medicare isn't even on the board.

[DURHAM D]

16. Huh?

youz got some readin' to do...

[DFab420]

17. Here, this is what I read. Did I miss it in there??

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/federal-eye/post/whats-getting-cut-in-the-fy-2011-budget/2011/04/11/AFMIynLD_blog.html

[DFab420]

18. Or maybe here

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/documents/CR2011cuts-document-cloud-new-skin.html

[DURHAM D]

20. No better as it relates to your OP - you are just making shit up. nt

[DFab420]

21. What are you talking about?

like seriously. My OP is discussing that there may be some logic behind opening the hood of SS and seeing how she runs...

You then talk about SS and Medicare are under attack.

I then post the next years fiscal budget, laid out in both article and graph form, SHOWING how SS is not as a matter of fact "under attack"

and you say my posts don't support my point?

I'm not sure what else you want my friend.

[DURHAM D]

19. Huh again?

Please post quote from that long article about SS - the subject of your OP.

Also, most democrats don't use that fish wrap for news. .

[DFab420]

22. Well luckily I don't just read what "democrats" deem worthy of me reading

I tend to read as much from as many places...

Also the point of that article is that in the Budget cuts laid out for the next FY2011 Social Security isn't even in there!! I can't show you where it is because it isn't being cut!

[ClassWarrior]

34. It's obvious from your OP that you don't have much in common with "democrats."

Why the quote marks and the lowercase "D," by the way?

NGU.

[Name removed]

31. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Bob Loblaw]

23. I'd be open to ...

the programs being means tested on the high end. If, for example you have $10 million in assets maybe you don't need to draw SS. Hasn't Warren Buffett suggested such a thing? Isn't Medicaid means tested on the low end?

[Fearless]

24. Umm no.

Social Security is fine. It's supposed to run a deficit for the next thirty years or so because of the Baby Boomers. If the Rethugs don't steal from the fund, more, then everything will be fine and it will even out.

[Bake]

25. So maybe your car needs work. Are you going to take it to a chop shop?

Or a gang of car thieves?

That's what you're doing if you let the Pukes get their filthy hands on Social Security.

Oh, you might still have the chassis. But the wheels are gone. The engine is gone -- wait, they left a VOUCHER under the hood! The radio? There's just a hole in the dash.

You get my drift.

Bake

[Keith Bee]

26. You lie!

Just threw that in for no good reason whatsoever. Oh. Wait. That's right: Your OP is BS!

[DFab420]

28. Thanks!

Your comment was almost as constructive as Joe Wilsons was. Have anything to say for yourself or does your vocab end with BS? Do you have an actual opinion or are you happy with what you put forth to represent your point of view??

[JVS]

35. +1

[Chef Eric]

27. Your car runs fine, and your mechanic is a fucking liar. Hire a new one. nt

[ClassWarrior]

32. How about you drive it up your ass along with your "reform" of my family's future?

NGU.

[Keith Bee]

33. Let's say you don't

Awright?

[JVS]

36. Nice metaphor. Too bad it doesn't accurately depict the situation. Maybe you should sell it to...

Tom Friedman. I'm sure he'll find a use for it.

[yellowcanine]

38. Some metaphors just don't work. And 80 yr old car = SS is one. Sorry, it just doesn't.

[Overseas]

39. Very bad analogy. Tax Cuts for the Rich Create Jobs is the 30-yr old jalopy

that needs to go to the junkyard of history. Been there, done that again and again as hundreds of thousands of jobs were lost, and millions of tax break dollars were hidden in offshore accounts.

We have strengthened social security over the years. We taxed the boomers more to pay for the expansion in social security needs when they retire.

The social security fund still has a surplus and should remain in a lock box to be used for its intended purpose.

The old car analogy buys into their false frame that we're in a CRISIS CRISIS -- we can't tax the rich a bit more -- NO NO NO, we need to go after seniors who have paid into their own Social Security their whole working lives.