No Compromises over the debt celling!

[rndmprsn]

Not one penny in compromise! - Let Wall Street and the Tea Party go to war over the debt ceiling and the end of cheap money #p2 #budget

(my tweet from earlier)

Thoughts on this?

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

1. "Let's Completely Limit Our Options!"

:woohoo:

The debt has to be dealt with but this is one of the stupidest ways possible. There are simple, common-sense ways to easily deal with the debt. Why go nuclear when a finger-snap will do?

[rndmprsn]

3. you miss the point my friend...

we would never let this country default on its debt, that's not what this is about...wall street would never let that happen either, its called driving a wedge between the people who want it to happen (tea party) and the people on the other side who won't let it happen (wall street)

let them fight each other / divide and conquer

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

5. Someone is missing the point but it's not me.

"Wall St." and the "Tea Party" are the same thing. Any "fight" between them is merely for purposes of show.

[rndmprsn]

9. goodness gracious - don't be so thin skinned we are on the same side

i hate the way that these internet arguments escalate out of control, sigh.

anyhow, i admit i'm wrong and you are right

done...i'm out of here, now i remember why i don't pay dues and don't post here anymore

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

14. "Thin skin?"

I "know" we're on the same side. Just explain to me how the TP and Wall St. are separate interests. If they're not then it's a charade. If they are...then explain it to me.

Note: I'm not sure you know what "escalate out of control" means. It's was completely civil until you launched a personal :nuke: attack by calling me quote: "thin skinned." ;)

[On the Road]

29. You Can't Possibly Believe That

Whatever qualities the two groups have, they have almost nothing in common.

[Raine1967]

35. I think the OP is giving too much credit to

the Tea Party and Wall street.

there is a part of me that already believes someone is hedging this.

[Raine1967]

34. There is a matter of time.. perhaps you forget that.

Did you learn nothing from the most recent budget battle? You know, a little something called FY 2011?

We do NOT HAVE TIME to play these games. May is quickly coming upon this nation.

Who do you think -- exactly --- would be fighting each other, and who exactly would be the divided?

See what you are saying, but I wonder -- if the choice is the TesParty and wall street, isn't that already a loss?

[The Magistrate]

2. Absolutely, Sir

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

6. The TP and Wall St. are separate interests?

C'mon, man.

[The Magistrate]

8. It Will Not Fail, Sir: The Corporate Owners Of Bonds And Congress-Critters Will Pull the Leash Tight

The firmer we stand on this, the sooner tea-bagging turds will have their faces pressed right down into just who owns them, and what master they serve....

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

11. "Let Wall Street and the Tea Party go to war over the debt ceiling and the end of cheap money...

...was the premise, Sir.

Set me straight if those two entities aren't the same thing. No big whoop.

[The Magistrate]

16. At The Leadership Level, Sir, Yes: At The Cadre And Rank and File Level, No

This break between leaders and led is the opportunity.

There is nothing real wealth wants more than it wants U.S. Treasury bonds to retain their value.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

18. So are the people backing bonds the same people backing the TP?

[The Magistrate]

19. Pretty Much, Sir, Yes: Treasury Bonds Effectively are the Money Supply

Messing with them to the point of even near default is 'tampering with the fundamental order of the universe'....

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

20. So the premise of letting the TP and WS "go to war" against each other is faulty.

Correct?

[The Magistrate]

22. No, Sir: The War is Between Those Who Pay the Bills and Those Who Canvass And Vote

For convenience, the former can be termed 'Wall Street' and the latter 'tea-baggers'. The rank and file of the tea-baggers want some things the people who finance their shenanigans do not want, and this particular matter 'heightens the contradictions', possibly to a breaking point.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

23. Wall St.= "Those Who Pay the Bills?"

TB's= "Those Who Canvass And Vote?




I've learned a lot in this exchange.


Wriggle out of this.

[The Magistrate]

25. Glad To Hear You Have Learned Something, Sir

"Say something once, why say it again?"

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

27. Wall ST. pays the bills? The TP canvasses and votes?

That's opposite world.

WS got bailed out. The opposite of "paying the bills." The principals pay 15% instead of 35% in income tax. Again, opposite.

The TP is astroturf. The opposite of canvassing and voting. The TP is funded by Wall Streeters. Again, opposite.

I'll lessen the decision to a TKO. Is that amenable?

[Hippo_Tron]

32. If the Tea-baggers are 100% astroturf, explain Christine O'Donnell

Even the leaders of Freedomworks didn't want her to win because she would inevitably lose a general election, yet she won. While I think they are mostly astroturf, there's still an extent to which they will go against the wishes of Dick Armey and co.

[ZombieHorde]

30. That is actually a pretty good song. nt

[sasha031]

4. agreed

:)

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

7. The TP and Wall St. are separate interests?

?

[Cali_Democrat]

12. Wall Street wants a compromise...the TP does not and wants to gut social services

Wall Street doesn't care in the short term as long as the debt is rolled over and the US govt can borrow more money. The TP wants to extract concessions from the Dems and gut essential social programs before the debt ceiling is raised.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

15. So the TP and WS are separate?

I don't believe it for a second.

[Cali_Democrat]

21. Wall Street created and developed the Tea Party in order to oust Dems from Congress

Wall Street is only made up of a handful of wealthy people. They really don't have the voting power. That's why they created the Tea Party through astorturf.

However, many Tea Party voters aren't aware of what will happen if the debt ceiling isn't raised and the bonds aren't rolled over. There would be widespread chaos in the financial markets similar to the fall of 2008. The Tea Party voters aren't aware of these things and only want cuts before the debt ceiling is raised.

Wall Street would like cuts in social services, but their short term objective is to get the debt ceiling raised by any means, even without cuts. Wall Street's long term goals are the same as the tea party, but the short term objective is to get the ceiling raised and they need cooperation from the Republicans in Congress and the Tea Party.

The Republican's in congress are in a pickle. If the debt ceiling is raised without cuts to social services, the Tea Party voters will be furious. If the debt ceiling isn't raised and there is deadlock in congress, the financial markets will start gushing blood.

That's why the Dems should just sit back and not compromise with the repukes in Congress when it comes to the debt ceiling and cuts to social services.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

24. If they created them, why couldn't they uncreate them?

Or change their focus?

It's absurd.

[DCKit]

13. The PEOPLE of the Tea Party are not the people who RUN the Tea Party.

The people hate Wall St. and the Banksters, the Koch brothers ARE Wall St. and the Banksters. We just need to convince them they've been used to the benefit of the same corporations that ripped us off (and continue to do so).

But good luck to each and every one, those TP folks have blinders riveted into their temples and their brains (such as they are) are made of granite.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

17. Of course.

But the interest behind the TP is what really matters. And it IS Wall St.

[sad sally]

28. You're right - at least in the beginning. From just two years ago.

APRIL 15, 2009 - Tax Day Becomes Protest Day
How the tea parties could change American politics.

Today American taxpayers in more than 300 locations in all 50 states will hold rallies -- dubbed "tea parties" -- to protest higher taxes and out-of-control government spending. There is no political party behind these rallies, no grand right-wing conspiracy, not even a 501(c) group like MoveOn.org.

So who's behind the Tax Day tea parties? Ordinary folks who are using the power of the Internet to organize. For a number of years, techno-geeks have been organizing "flash crowds" -- groups of people, coordinated by text or cellphone, who converge on a particular location and then do something silly, like the pillow fights that popped up in 50 cities earlier this month. This is part of a general phenomenon dubbed "Smart Mobs" by Howard Rheingold, author of a book by the same title, in which modern communications and social-networking technologies allow quick coordination among large numbers of people who don't know each other. (Sounds vaguely like the Egyptian movement?)

-snip-

Likewise, I spoke to an organizer for the Knoxville tea party who said that no "professional politicians" were going to be allowed to speak, and he made a big point of saying that the protest wasn't an anti-Obama protest, it was an anti-establishment protest. I've heard similar things from tea-party organizers in other cities, too. Though critics will probably try to write the tea parties off as partisan publicity stunts, they're really a post-partisan expression of outrage.

-snip-

Will these flash crowds be a flash in the pan? It's possible that people who demonstrate today will find that experience cathartic enough -- or exhausting enough -- that that will be it. But it's more likely that the tea-party movement will have an impact on the 2010 and 2012 elections, and perhaps beyond.

morehttp://online.wsj.com/article/SB123975867505519363.html?du

[Cali_Democrat]

10. Yup

No compromise whatsoever.

K&R

[jenmito]

26. "Wall Street tells Boehner Don't mess with debt ceiling or grave consequences will follow"

Wall Street is listening to the 'debt ceiling chicken' meme and not liking what the Tea Party and Republicans are saying about messing around with it. John Boehner does understand the ramifications of not raising the debt ceiling, but unlike pushing the government shutdown to the limit, doing the same to the debt ceiling will have a much more catastrophic impact.

Republicans are growing increasingly concerned about the impact a bruising fight over raising the nation’s $14.29 trillion debt ceiling could have on U.S. financial markets.

House Speaker John Boehner (R-Ohio) has had conversations with top Wall Street executives, asking how close Congress could push to the debt limit deadline without sending interests rates soaring and causing stock prices to go lower, people familiar with the matter said. Boehner spokesman Michael Steel said Tuesday night that he was not aware of any such conversations.

Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner has warned Congress that without new borrowing authority, the federal government could hit the statutory debt limit by May 16.

--

The Wall Street executives say even pushing close to the deadline — or talking about it — could have grave consequences in the marketplace.

“They don’t seem to understand that you can’t put everything back in the box. Once that fear of default is in the markets, it doesn’t just go away. We’ll be paying the price for years in higher rates,” said one executive.

http://crooksandliars.com/john-amato/wall-street-tells-boehner-dont-mess-deb

[former9thward]

31. It is already too late. There will be spending cuts to raise the debt limit

According to Obama. http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/2011/04/15/AFGruFlD_story.html

[TheKentuckian]

33. Hence he is a fool or complicit.