Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Hey Big Ed, WAKE UP ! Fuck Trump ! Obama/DEMS have already created jobs and have a plan for more.

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » General Discussion: Presidency Donate to DU
 
RBInMaine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-11 11:55 PM
Original message
Hey Big Ed, WAKE UP ! Fuck Trump ! Obama/DEMS have already created jobs and have a plan for more.
Edited on Thu Apr-21-11 12:09 AM by RBInMaine
Yesterday Big Ed had a spot on his show where he touted Trump because Trump said he wanted to "bring jobs back to America" by placing a tariff on Chinese imports. In fairness he did hit Trump over the birther thing and for not signing on to tax increases on the rich, but he went on and on that The Donald is the only one so far talking about restoring manufacturing in America.

Hey Ed, HELLO ! Obama/Dems ALREADY saved the auto industry. THAT is called MANUFACTURING here in America. Obama/Dems have ALREADY passed all kinds of legislation to spur small business growth here in America. Obama/Dems ALREADY have tried to pass new laws ending tax breaks for the costs of moving jobs overseas.
Obama/Dems have ALREADY invested more in green energy startups/expansions than we've had before. That means MANUFACTURING right here in America. Obama/Dems have ALREADY been fighting like hell for a budget plan which continues to invest in green energy, infrastructure, and other measures to spur American manufacturing and building here in America. Obama has ALREADY traveled the nation visiting MANUFACTURING plants which have benefitted from his/Dems' policies. He has spoken time and time and time again, most recently in his budget address, that he supports continuing to make the investments we need to create the economy of tomorrow HERE IN AMERICA which means MANUFACTURING here in America. And for a while now the House Dems have had a MADE IN AMERICA policy agenda in place.

So Ed, before you go on and on touting The Bad Haired Birther Nut Donald because he talked about American job creation, kindly do a little more homework first. Obama and DEMS have already DONE IT and are fighting to continue to do it. And as to the Donald wanting to tax Chinese imports, good luck selling such "anti-trade protectionism" to the ReSCUM base and their establishment leaders. It'll be a fun civil war battle, but in the end won't fly and inch with the RePUKES.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
silver10 Donating Member (492 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-11 12:21 AM
Response to Original message
1. Trump should go back to college...
I am far from a republican, but besides the wealth being overly concentrated to a small minority (much as it is today) one of the reasons for the Great Depression was protectionism. You stop buying from me (other countries), I will make sure to not buy anything from you (America). Despite China's terrible crimes against humanity and authoritarianism, its people do have a high regard for discipline, and respect education and they rigorously study sciences and math, and we will have no choice BUT to get much if not most or all of our science and technology human resources and goods and services from China and other Asian countries very soon, so good luck with your crappy protectionist argument Don.

The Dems have it right - build American infrastructure, education, health and science research, and create jobs - and YES the government does create jobs. We need a strong middle class and don't need more of your kind weakening it. Making the rich wealthier through tax cuts doesn't help anything but their overseas bank accounts where they are building overseas markets - along with buying back company stock to inflate the value, and buying smaller companies for pennies on the dollar - all the while selling a bunch of shit to the uneducated and the misguided of this country.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
zennie62 Donating Member (31 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-11 12:28 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. Agree!
The problem is the first Economic Stimulus Package was not big enough. It should have been $1.5 trillion, not $800 billion. Larry Summers deliberately pushed a number that Christine Roehmer's economic models said was not the optimum size.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
dennis4868 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-11 12:48 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. If the stimulus was any bigger....
it would not have survived a fillubuster because of the DINOs in the senate....
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
RBInMaine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-11 01:20 AM
Response to Reply #3
9. Bigger stimulus could not pass the Congress.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
no_hypocrisy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-11 05:42 AM
Response to Reply #3
14. Welcome to DU!
:hi:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
RBInMaine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-11 01:26 AM
Response to Reply #1
10. There is no way we can compete with such cheap labor. We need to re-think trade policy BIGTIME as
well as invest in education,research and development, tax incentives for growing firms, and cutting out tax breaks which actually encourage job shipment overseas.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
olegramps Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-22-11 08:06 AM
Response to Reply #1
31. This is not the fact. In fact tariffs were imposed in attempt to correct the imbalance.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
olegramps Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-22-11 08:24 AM
Response to Reply #31
32. Hartmann on Tariffs.
I believe that this is important enough to be posted in its entirity.

"Starving The Beast."

How the Corporatocracy Sets the Rules of the "Game" To Create Peons

By Thom Hartmann

10/31/06 "Information Clearing House" -- -- One of the most pernicious claims the corporatocracy makes is that business flourishes best in a perfectly "free" market. And when business flourishes, they say, all of society does better. It's the old trickle-down philosophy that inevitably produces a nation of peons.

Always get suspicious when you see the words free market. Let's go back to the story of Mrs. Flores, whom you met in chapter 2-- the woman who lost her job at Levi Strauss when that venerable American company closed all of its factories here in the USA and moved them overseas.

Cons argue that "productivity" is responsible for the loss of American jobs. They love to quote nineteenth-century economist David Ricardo (1772�"1823) as saying in his 1817 work On Wages, "Labour, like all other things which are purchased and sold, and which may be increased or diminished in quantity, has its natural and its market price."

Thus, they say, it's natural that American wages should have been in a free fall ever since Bill Clinton signed NAFTA and GATT: America's roughly 100 million workers now have to compete "on a level playing field" with 5 billion impoverished people around the world. Offshoring is simply the normal extension, they say, of Ricardo's classic view of economics.

What they conveniently forget is that Ricardo didn't say the market price was the natural price. On the contrary, he wrote, "The natural price of labour is that price which is necessary to enable the labourers, one with another, to subsist and to perpetuate their race, without either increase or diminution."

In other words labor is part of the game of business, and one of the first goals of the game of business is to "perpetuate" the existence of the laborers themselves. That's the natural price. If businesses want to keep their workers, according to Ricardo, they must make sure that the market price of labor is at least as much as the natural price of labor. And the natural price is the "subsistence" price-- just enough to survive-- which brings us back to Dickens's world.

On the other hand, when in 1914 Henry Ford raised his workers' pay to $5 per day (about double what other manufacturers were paying), he said he was doing so in part because he wanted his employees to be able to buy his cars. If the American workforce can't make a decent living, they'll stop buying products made in America, which will lead to fewer people making a decent living-- this death spiral for an economy and a nation's middle class that we are now seeing as a result of Reagan/Clinton/Bush trade and economic policies.

Everybody knows that games played without rules won't work. Boxers are divided into weight categories to ensure relative fairness in fights; baseball rules define the type of bats that can be used; football players are limited in how they can use their hands so they don't injure opponents or gain unfair advantage.

What's lost on many Americans is that business is a game, too. And We the People define its rules through our elected representatives. The goal of the game is to provide for the life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness of American citizens.

Gaming the System
If government can create conditions that cause a middle class to emerge, by implementing fair rules for business, progressive taxation, and free public education, the opposite is also true: government can create a corporatocracy by deregulating business, by cutting taxes on extreme wealth, and by privatizing as much of the commons as possible. Cons call this "starving the beast."

Here's how you starve the beast: you put through tax cuts for the rich, which cuts back the revenues of the federal government to the point that, if you got rid of all the social programs, you'd have a balanced budget. No more Social Security, no more spending for education, no more spending for Medicare and Medicaid; have the government simply keep the armies, prisons, and police. Let's shrink government-- that's their philosophy.

When you cut all those social programs, you lose the middle class and in its place create a very small, very wealthy elite and a large underclass of starvation-wage workers. You lose democracy and instead create corporatocracy. You change the rules of the game; We the People lose, and the feudal lords win.

Cons have been winning this particular game of "starve the beast" since Reagan first started seriously playing it in 1981. They've done it in large part by lying to the American people; and they've had to do that because if they told the truth the majority of Americans would throw them out of office.

This is, after all, still a democracy. If the majority of us agree to get rid of Social Security so that only the wealthy can have retirement benefits and the old are left to fend for themselves, so be it. If a guy breaks his back and can't work and the majority of us decide not to help people who are disabled, and as a result he has to beg on the street, well, we can democratically decide to screw him and ourselves.

But the cons are not having this debate in an open and honest fashion. They are not asking We the People if we want to get rid of, for example, the Head Start program. They could ask, "Do we want to invest in our youth now or not?" We know that if we invest in educating the very young, fewer of them will become criminals. It will save us money over the long term. But if the majority of us say, "No, we would rather pay $50,000 to imprison them later than pay $300 to put them in Head Start now," then fine, it's a democracy.

But that's not the way the cons are doing it.

Instead of explaining why it would be better for Americans to give all their money to a corporate elite, they're giving huge tax cuts to the rich while pretending that the tax cuts benefit all Americans.

Instead of arguing that Americans should not expect the right to health care or security in their old age, they are prompting a government crisis by handing to the rich money they're borrowing from China, Japan, and Korea in the name of our grandkids. We are borrowing so much money from these countries that if they so much as blink, our currency could crash.

And that's just what the most ideological of the con elite want. They want an economic crisis because they figure that's the only way they can force a cut in spending on social programs.

In 2004 they thought they had starved the beast enough and sent Bush out on the campaign trail to advocate getting rid of Social Security-- privatizing it, putting it in the hands of Wall Street. But it didn't work. Turns out We the People apparently like Social Security. So the cons went back to starving the beast. Bush instead passed a new series of tax cuts, with more to follow.

The cons are trying to play the game so that the rich benefit while the rest of us lose out. They get tax cuts, and we get program cuts. That's not the "free" market. That's a market that's being created for the benefit of the rich at the expense of the middle class.

How the Game Works
The question Americans have faced since the first arguments between Thomas Jefferson and Alexander Hamilton in the 1780s was whether the game of business should be played with the primary goal of enriching the few, or-- while allowing the few to enrich themselves-- enhancing the quality of life of the many.

The cons suggest that if the rich win first, benefits will "trickle down" to the rest of us. Protecting workers, they say, will produce abnormalities and dislocations from the "free" market. For example, they suggest that when minimum wages are fixed by government, and labor can lawfully bargain to increase wages by increasing scarcity of labor through union actions, the result is an increase in prices, ultimately "hurting the working person."

But the economist they most often cite on this thinking, David Ricardo, disagreed that raising wages first increased prices. He noted, "On the contrary, a rise of wages, from the circumstance of the labourer being more liberally rewarded, or from a difficulty of procuring the necessaries on which wages are expended, does not, except in some instances, produce the effect of raising price, but has a great effect in lowering profits."

In other words, all the talk about keeping wages down to keep prices down is a smokescreen: business owners want to keep wages down to keep profits up.

And when wages go down, profits do indeed go up. American wages have been falling steadily since Reagan first reintroduced con economics in 1980, and American corporations are generally more profitable than they've been in decades. In part this is not only because wages are going down within the United States but also because U.S.-level wages are being replaced by India- and China-level wages through outsourcing and offshoring.

"But offshoring isn't the problem for American workers!" the cons shout. "It's the increase in productivity. American businesses need fewer workers because automation and hard work have made our workers more productive."

This is a tragic lie, and it's been bought hook, line, and sinker by most American politicians and even many economists.

Productivity is, very simply, the measure of how many products or services can be produced for how many dollars of labor expended. But offshoring distorts productivity figures in two ways.

First, foreign labor is cheaper, but it produces nearly identical amounts of product or service. The result is "increased productivity."

Second, many corporations don't list offshore labor on their balance sheets as a labor expense. Because they hire offshore companies as subcontractors to do work previously done by their own employees, they get to reduce the number and the cost of their employees while having an only slightly increased line item for the subcontractor on their profit-and-loss statements. The result implies that the remaining employees are getting more done because the offshore employees are no longer counted in the productivity figures.

But the Indians and the Chinese know something you won't hear on con "business" programs: while China and India eagerly let multinational corporations move work to their nations from the United States, they fiercely protect their own domestic industries primarily through the use of tariffs-- taxes on imported goods-- and the strict regulation of imported labor.

Winning the Game for America
To return balance to the international game of business, America should follow the lead of the Chinese and the Indians. We can use tariffs to balance trade relationships.

From the founding of this country, our operational principle was: If there's a dollar's worth of labor in a pair of shoes made here, and you can make the same shoes in some other "cheap labor" country with 10 cents' worth of labor, there will be a 90-cent import tax (tariff) when you bring them into the country, to protect our domestic industries and our manufacturing jobs. Tariffs level the field for both American business and American labor. Without tariffs the only winners are the East India Company's modern incarnations-- the multinational corporations (which is why the multinationals push so hard for the WTO and other such institutions, treaties, and trade agreements).

This is not a new idea, by the way-- it's how America has protected its economy from the founding of this nation right up until Clinton signed NAFTA and GATT. The first law imposing tariffs was in place before the Constitution was ratified in 1789. Tariffs represented 100 percent of federal government revenues from the founding of this nation until around the time of the Civil War and about a third of our total federal revenues up to World War I. They were still a major source of revenue right into the 1980s, when Reagan first took a whack at them.

For example, Jefferson wrote in his diary on March 11, 1792: "Hamilton had drawn Ternant into a conversation on the subject of the treaty of commerce recommended by the National Assembly of France to be negotiated with us." France wanted concessions from America as a way of enhancing international relations but was unwilling to reduce its own tariffs. Jefferson noted, "Hamilton communicated this to the President, who came into it, and proposed it to me. I disapproved of it, observing, that such a volunteer project would be binding on us, and not them; that it would enable them to find out how far we would go, and avail themselves of it."

George Washington was more of Hamilton's mind. "However," Jefferson wrote,

the President thought it worth trying, and I acquiesced. I prepared a plan of treaty for exchanging the privileges of native subjects, and fixing all duties forever as they now stood. Hamilton did not like this way of fixing the duties, because, he said, many articles here would bear to be raised, and therefore, he would prepare a tariff. He did so, raising duties for the French, from twenty-five to fifty per cent. So they were to give us the privileges of native subjects, and we, as a compensation, were to make them pay higher duties.
The deal ultimately fell through-- Jefferson saw it as a Machiavellian scheme by Hamilton to try to irritate England-- but it shows how tariffs were an important aspect of American foreign policy from the administration of George Washington up until Bill Clinton got us into the World Trade Organization, thus eliminating most tariffs and trade "restrictions," letting multinational corporations instead of sovereign nations write the rules of international business.

To solve the crisis of the disappearance of America's middle class, the United States should follow Jefferson's lead and protect American workers. We should pull out of the WTO, NAFTA, CAFTA, and other multilateral treaties that give corporations the power to enforce their will on our government and our workers. This will again allow us to impose leveling tariffs on work done overseas. Offshore labor can then be set in price-- by adding tariffs to it-- to equal a living wage in the United States.

If a company wants to hire people to answer the phone in India for $2 per hour, fine. Let them do it-- and pay a $10-per-hour tariff on top of the $2 hourly wage. If somebody wants to manufacture a computer in China with $10 worth of labor that would be worth $100 in the United States, no problem-- just impose a $90 tariff on it when it's imported. Most companies will simply return to the United States for their labor, and those that don't will enhance government coffers with funds that can be used for national health care and the education of our workforce.

This is easily doable. By walking away from the Anti-ballistic Missile Treaty and the Kyoto accords, George W. Bush showed Americans that we really do have the power to simply ignore or disavow international treaties to which we've already committed.

It's time to apply that experience to the WTO, GATT, and NAFTA and return to our Founders' ideal of a nation in which the rules of trade and business are, as Jefferson said, "very much guided" by the interests of We the People rather than by a handful of multinational corporations.

Excerpted from Thom Hartmann's newest book, Screwed; The Undeclared War Against the Middle Class -- And What We Can Do About It

See also: Real Video: : Thom Hartmann: Screwed: The Undeclared War Against the Middle Class -- And What We Can Do About It: Air America talk radio host Thom Hartmann argues that government policies are endangering the middle class. He alleges that conservatives are creating rules and conditions that value corporations over people.

Thom Hartmann is a Project Censored Award-winning best-selling author, and host of a nationally syndicated daily progressive talk show carried on the Air America Radio network and Sirius. Visit his website - http://www.thomhartmann.com

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
flamingdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-11 12:27 AM
Response to Original message
2. Thank you! Ed making Trump look good goes past irony nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SusanaMontana41 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-11 01:07 AM
Response to Reply #2
7. You're right, but
if and when Trump gains traction, the Rethugs will eat him alive. We're starting to see pushback already.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SkyDaddy7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-11 02:45 PM
Response to Reply #7
26. When he gains traction? Trump is screaming!
I would hate to see what "Gaining Traction" looks like to you but he went from single digits to 11 point lead among all potential GOP Candidates in two weeks! And with every poll his lead gets bigger despite the push back! And not all of the GOP is pushing back many are embracing!

Way too many people here on DU are blowing Trump off & that worries me...All this time everyone has been wondering who would be the GOP front runner & now that they CLEARLY have one many act as if this is just make believe. TRUMP WAS ON THE 700 Club & they loved him despite his flipping on social issues!

Add in the FACT Americans go for AUTHORITARIAN GOP Candidates & this could be a nightmare in the making!

I'm just saying...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
golfguru Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-11 12:54 AM
Response to Original message
5. Big Ed spoke the truth about manufacturing jobs loss.
As for the US auto industry being saved, it is still an open case.
Taxpayers are picking up a $11 Billion loss on coming sale of GM
stock by the US Government. GM is far from being out of the woods.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
RBInMaine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-11 01:31 AM
Response to Reply #5
11. Obviously we've had the job loss. No one is saying we haven't. I'm just noting that Trump is NOT
Edited on Thu Apr-21-11 01:33 AM by RBInMaine
the only one talking about re-growing US manufacturing. Obama/Dems have already DONE it, and have plans in place to continue to do it. They have talked about it over and over and over. That is Big Ed's MAJOR FAIL in his piece. As to the US auto industry, without the bailout it would have gone under. It along with the MANY industries attached to it. Most R's were saying, "Let 'em fail." The bailout was a good move, the companies are profitable again, and they are innovating and HIRING again here in America.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
golfguru Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-11 01:57 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. What Obama and Bush failed to do is
Edited on Thu Apr-21-11 01:59 AM by golfguru
let the exchange rate between dollar & yuan float. The fixed rate of
exchange gives China an unfair trading advantage by under pricing their currency.

We can't create jobs here by bailouts of failing corporations at tax
payer expense. What really needs to be done is EQUALIZE the playing field.
This is especially true with China since they have stolen the lion's share
of our manufacturing jobs.

Just wait till China starts exporting cars to US at half price of domestic
production. There is no way the government can keep bailing out domestic car
makers so long as yuan is 35% below its true trading value.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
OHdem10 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-11 01:05 AM
Response to Original message
6. I think Ed was doing a tongue in cheek on Trump. Did you hear
him repeating and repeating---not creating jobs but
bring jobs back. Trump is going to bring jobs back.
I think Ed was saying Trump has a winning issue but
once jobs go--rarely are they brought back. At
the end he challenged Trump to get specific and tell
us how he is going "to bring jobs back".
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
RBInMaine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-11 01:18 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. Understood, but he spoke broadly about MANUFACTURING which Obama/Dems have already been DOING. In
Edited on Thu Apr-21-11 01:23 AM by RBInMaine
fact, manufacturing has been a major sector of the economy that has been INCREASING of late.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Historic NY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-11 04:30 AM
Response to Original message
13. Just ask the Donald if he uses union labor on his projects?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
no_hypocrisy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-11 05:43 AM
Response to Reply #13
15. Just ask the Donald if he pays his contractors for his projects.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Liberal_Stalwart71 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-11 07:20 AM
Response to Original message
16. It never ceases to amaze me how ill-informed Big Ed is. I'm often left speechless when he spews shit
like this, however!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Avant Guardian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-11 11:16 AM
Response to Reply #16
19. Ed is correct in essence
He isnt backing Trump, he is pointing out the fact that Trump is the only one talking tariffs, besides Thom Hartmann who isnt running. Hey, a broken clock is right twice a day.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Liberal_Stalwart71 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-11 11:44 AM
Response to Reply #19
20. Trump *isn't* the only one talking tariffs. Randi Rhodes speaks on this issue quite
Edited on Thu Apr-21-11 11:48 AM by Liberal_Stalwart71
frequently, and has been speaking on it well before Big Ed or Trump.

I hope you're right in that Ed is only be facetious; I know he isn't backing Trump, but he may be in danger of leading some viewers to the wrong conclusions if he doesn't qualify his statements by declaring Trump to be the opportunist that he is. He can't praise Trump on this issue because Trump's intentions are not well meaning. Big Ed should explicate that point to his viewers!

Note: I listen to Ed everyday. I have his podcast and have been a faithful listener since he began his show. I also watch his show every night, though it is taped and I don't get a chance to listen on the exact day. I love Ed, but he is often misinformed on some issues and is ill-prepared to combat wingnuts who call into his show. I am not the only listener who feels this way, either. Many of us have pointed it out to Ed. He needs to be better prepared. Case in point: he allowed that Heidi wingnut go on and on about how health care is not a human right and that people who are sick should just go to the Emergency Room. Rather than pointing out to her that Emergency Room costs are shifted on to the consumers in the form of higher premiums, Ed didn't not address her. The next day, people were calling in furious that Ed didn't point this out to her.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Avant Guardian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-11 12:02 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. By *only* I mean candidates
Randy, Ed and Thom all have been talking tariffs, especially Thom.

Ed is on our side, I believe he was just making a point that we need to protect manufacturing. Ed knows that Trump is a mindless crackpot of a candidate.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Liberal_Stalwart71 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-11 07:21 AM
Response to Original message
17. ETA: Donald Trump isn't discussing this issue in good faith. He knows that he cannot compete
with China. That's the only reason why he appears to be on our side. Donald Trump cares only about one thing, and one thing ONLY: What is best for Donald Trump.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TheKentuckian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-11 01:29 PM
Response to Reply #17
22. Why should we be? Especially, with their tariffs, restrictions, lack of worker and environmental
regulation, and currency manipulation to start?

Why shouldn't make any effort to balance the board? Religious like fixation on "free trade" is why.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Liberal_Stalwart71 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-11 02:47 PM
Response to Reply #22
27. What do you mean? My post was about Trump, not about us not addressing tariffs.
I agree with that.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TheKentuckian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-11 04:36 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. I believe I responded to the wrong post.
The one I meant to answer was saying we can't compete with China.

I don't care who pushes the idea as long as we do it. If it takes Trump to start a conversation on equable trade policy then so be it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Avant Guardian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-11 11:14 AM
Response to Original message
18. The US makes almost nothing
Thom Hartmann has said the same thing for years, tariffs on imports = more manufacturing in the USA.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Rosa Luxemburg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-11 02:38 PM
Response to Reply #18
25. we need to start producing more things and exporting them
Germnay is top with solar things
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Armstead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-11 01:38 PM
Response to Original message
23. I think you missed his point
Big Ed endorsed Trump as a joke.

However, he also pointed out correctly that Trump is pointing out a legitimate issue and goal that most politicians are avoiding with all their blather about "retraining for the jobs of the future" as they promote or ignore the outsourcing of our economy.

Ed was NOT saying Trump is a legitimate candidate. but he WAS saying that the real candidates -- Democratiuc as well as GOP -- should be addressing this problem and goal, instead of skirting around it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NorthCarolina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-11 02:34 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. Why bother? I was just another opportunity for the usual DU crowd to slam a Liberal messenger.
They will paint the picture to fit their 'message', regardless of what the truth is.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
RBInMaine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-11 08:43 PM
Response to Reply #23
29. I got what he was doing in that sense, BUT I'm talking about the bigger picture. Ed SHOULD have
said, "Great that the Donald is talking about revitalizing manufacturing. MORE of this does need to happen. Glad he's talking about it. BUT, Dems have already been working on manufacturing in this way...and this way...and..." His message was that "No one is talking about this nor doing anything about this, and it is a key issue and a winning one." THAT is NOT the case. Obama/Dems have done TONS on working to revitalize manufacturing, have talked at LENGTH on it, and he SHOULD have said so.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Beacool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-11 11:48 PM
Response to Original message
30. This is the reality.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Thu Apr 25th 2024, 06:13 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » General Discussion: Presidency Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC