Critics oppose this version of "reform" becauase it is a poison pill that will kill real reform

[Armstead]

This is why I and many others personally dislike the bill as it is being pushed. It takes us in WRONG direction -- not a step in the right direction. (It is,however a step in the right-wing direction by further entrenching uncontrolled "free market" insurance and its related oligarchy.)

This is NOT like the start of Social Security, where a worthy but weak program was put in place on a limited basis that would subsequently be expanded. This is NOT even cleaning up the current system, with a few exceptions. It has some good things that should have been done years ago. But the bad far outweighs the good, and there is not enough good to ultimately make a significant difference.

It has been so prostituted by so many concessions and contortions that are aimed at placating the very bastards that caused the problem. It is a gift that will keep on giving to the insurance industry. The things they have to "give up" are a pittance compared to what they are gaining.

Defenders claim "It brings in 30 million people into the insurance system." No matter that it is doing it by force. That it does not address the reasons that people have been shut out in the first place. Nor does it adrress the reason that health insurance eats up a disproportunate share of the budget of many people who already have insurance.....

Expansion of Medicaid? Subsidies? First of all, that puts a lot of working people into the position of becoming welfare recipients. It puts more average Americans into the position of having to receive government "charity" instead of providing a program available to everyone, or at least reforming the system to make it more affordable for everyone.

Apologists say "Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good." I agree. But how many critics are demanding perfect? Most of us started out with low expectations, and were ready to compromise and accept the mediocre as a starting point for further improvements later.

The "purists" (like me) are convinced that the real answer is a single payer universal system (Medicare for all.) It is an eminently sensible, common sense answer on both a practical and moral level. But we accepted that would not be the basis of this round of reform.

So from the beginning, we agreed to go many steps lower than anything resembling "perfect."

But we trusted the Democratic leadership to at least work in good faith to put in place reforms that were aimed at the problems in the present system, and would be oriented to the consumers. We knew that private insurers would continue to be in a position to make tons of bucks at our expense. However we believed the Democrats would at least act in good faith on our behalf to place them under strict controls, through regulation. We also believed they would offer an alternative that would offer more affordable alternatives through a public plan.

Instead they did a few good things and a lot of bad things and ignored a lot of other things. They put it into an unwieldy package and gave "first dibs" to the insurance and drug industries and to corrupt Democratic Republicans, and timid Vichy Democrats.

The result is bad legislation and bad policy. It is not "a good start in the right direction." It does not set us on the path to futther reforms.

It is a poison pill that will turn "average" Americans against the whole idea of health reform. It will play ingto the hands of Republicans by making some of their bogus claims correct -- It WILL take away people's freedom without any benefits in return.It will make "swing voters" more biased against real reform, and it will give teabaggers and Republicans enough political ammunition to sink an armada.

Meanwhile, it will also lock us into the power of the private insurance industry to an alarming degree.

So this will pre-empt further improvements.

Instead of going with something that is bad, why not try to do something right? It can be modest and pragmatic. But at least let's not be doing more harm than good.

[NJmaverick]

1. Yeah screw the people that will die with out this bill

it's doesn't have everything we wanted. Oh and pretend not to know the missing stuff could always be added later.

[Armstead]

2. Thank you for being so predictable

You just proved my point.

[NJmaverick]

3. you would like to think that

but like is often the case you would be wrong

[Armstead]

4. Thank you again

You fail to address any actual points but thow off a lot of cliches.

Please explain why it is a good thing -- when polls show a public option and/or Medicare buy in has strong public support (except among conservatives who oppose anything) -- for Congress and Obama to steadily weaken and eventually remove it, while retaining mandates that force people to buy private insurance?

Or would you just rather call me an idiot again?

[Moochy]

6. conspicuously ignorable

that one is.

[Armstead]

7. But fun to trade rabbit punches with sometimes

[eridani]

11. You are delusional. They'll die with this bill, only they'll get to be poor first n/t

[GreenPartyVoter]

14. +1

[Armstead]

12. Yet again you miss the point -- or you ignore it

You are free to disagree, but at least disagree on the actual point.

This will make it much harder -- if not impossible -- to "add the missing stuff later" because of the poison pills in this bill as it currently stands.

The mandates for corporate insurance will embed them into the system even more. Plus people are going to be so resentful of mandates that it will undermine any support for actual reform such as expanding access to Medicare or even a mild public option later.

You are free to disagree. But disagree on the point.

[Moochy]

5. K&R

The Pervasive myth of "American Exceptionalism" means we have to have a different healthcare system than that of the rest of the developed world. We can do it better! Let's not fix the problem, let's just tweak it around the edges. For profit healthcare is as American as denied coverage, and medical bankruptcies!

[JVS]

8. Ask not what your insurance company can do for you..... yadda yadda yadda

[Armstead]

9. ....Ask what you wil be forced to do for them

[GreenPartyVoter]

15. Well said.

[Laelth]

10. Hear, hear! k&r n/t

:dem:

-Laelth

[Tom Rinaldo]

13. Truth

This bill lays the wrong foundaton for a reformed health care system. Once a foundation is laid future construction rests upon that foundation. On top of the many other problems this legislation contains along with some good elements, it establishs the grounds upon which reform can proceed in America, posted with a big spanking new "Private Property Only" sign. At its core it defaults to a Republican approach even if the tea party freaks who currently rule the G.O.P. disown it.

[Armstead]

16. I agree -- It;s bulding a McMansion instead of a Commons