President Obama has to govern 306,000,000 people. Howard Dean has to govern his mouth.

[LastNaturalist]

If you put Howard Dean in the White House, how far would his abrasive personality have gotten him? Not even as far as Bill Clinton in 1993/94.

Join us in reality. Kudos, President Obama and House and Senate Dems. Keep up the good work.

[polichick]

Looks like the WH is mostly representing the insurance industry and big pharma...

...re this issue. Perhaps that's your kind of "reality."

[KansasVoter]

8. So the job is too hard for Obama to do correctly? This is the worst post yet!

[polichick]

13. What are you talking about?

[KansasVoter]

24. Sorry, meant to reply to the OP. I apologize!!

[polichick]

27. No problem - I was just confused. :)

[KansasVoter]

29. I don't blame you! My bad!

[chimpymustgo]

80. You said it. His Fat Cats (base).

[treestar]

98. Sick of this meme

so stupid.

As if no one is affected by these industries and they are 100% evil. They provide a service. They employ many people. And how big does a company of any kind have to be to be an "evil" corporation? Or or they all evil, even the ones with only one shareholder? It's like you are against business and against anyone making a living (and yes, profits are necessary, as businesses cannot expand without them, and go down, taking whatever jobs with them, if they don't earn more than it costs to make the product.

Obama is dealing with Lieberman and nelson, not "the insurance companies and big Pharma."

[WeDidIt]

1. Buh Bye n/t

[LastNaturalist]

4. You know it's true.

[DJ13]

2. Who will you guys slime next?

Im sure the hit list of those who dare to tell the truth about the administration's reform is growing by the minute.

You're going to be busy.

[LastNaturalist]

7. I'm defending our President.

[DJ13]

14. He only needs "defending" due to his own actions

He can change how people think about him whenever he chooses.

[LastNaturalist]

20. The point was, I wasn't sliming Dean. Just pointing out that he couldn't even win Iowa....

let alone, get a nomination or elected!

It's easy to talk when you're nothing more than a PUNDIT.

[jwirr]

43. I won't bet on his chances in Iowa today if I were you. Iowans also

wanted real reform.

[QC]

83. Whoever they must slime to defend their idol.

Every other concern pales before the issue of His glory.

[Sebastian Doyle]

3. Rahm Emanuel couldn't govern a sewer

But he's still a piece of shit.

[crappyjazz]

35. I wouldn't go so far as to call Obama a "sewer" n/t

.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

If I wanted to fuck with Dems this kind of "support" would be just the ticket

[janx]

48. Yeah. I think that's beyond obvious. n/t

[BlueIdaho]

5. The reality is

Dean speaks for a sizable number of democrats Obama needs to be re-elected in 2012. He ignores them, and Howard Dean at his peril.

and so do the House Democrats.

and so do the Senate Democrats.

That's also reality.

[LastNaturalist]

16. Ooh, "peril!" How scary.

Will he roar again or place 3rd in Iowa?

[BlueIdaho]

26. You really think

Obama, House, and Senate members can get re-elected if progressives and liberals decide to stay out if it in 2010 and 2012?

Progressives and liberals are by far the biggest contributors to Democratic campaigns and the most dependable foot soldiers needed in get out the vote operations.

By the way - the Tea Party is polling higher than the Democratic Party right now - so you can forget about the independents, they're not going to be with us in 2010 and maybe not 2012.


so yeah - peril.

[LastNaturalist]

30. Yeah, you just worry about Walt Minnick before you purge America of us nasty "rational liberals."

[BlueIdaho]

36. Minnick is gone after this term

He will be swept out by the Tea Party of North Idaho and no north Idaho Democrat I know will lift finger to help him - that includes several of the party bosses.

[LastNaturalist]

41. So is that you being "Blue"?

[BlueIdaho]

46. That - as you like to say is "reality"

Nothing can save Walt - nothing at all. He screwed his base and the independents are SRO in Tea Party meeting halls 2,000 strong.

[LastNaturalist]

49. Well you got me there. I wouldn't say nothing though.

It's uphill to be sure.

[BlueIdaho]

52. Dude if Bill Sali decided to run aganst him again

He'd win. Minnick is in no man's land.

[LastNaturalist]

55. I'd think an Idaho Democrat would be more patient with Obama,

such as myself, a Wyoming Democrat. For some of these folks from San Fran and Vermont, sure Obama's not a super lefty. But that means he's being responsible.

[BlueIdaho]

79. I guess I just want to see him fight like hell for something he really believes in

Right now he's just a little too - detached.

[freddie mertz]

63. So you don't want us to vote for the president again?

The message from Gibbs was pretty clear.

[maxsolomon]

6. Dean is advocating from the left

lord knows someone needs to.

[EFerrari]

9. How very democratic of you.

:)

Howard Dean's personality got him multiple terms as governor and the love and respect of the Democratic base -- which he still enjoys today.

Join us in reality, indeed.

[Cant trust em]

10. Awful. I like Obama, but I'm not going to bash Dean. nt

[asjr]

11. I can't believe I read that last sentence!

[asdjrocky]

12. So far this wins rude and lame post of the day.

[LittleBlue]

15. DU logical fallacy #43: Governing 300 million makes it acceptable to abandon principles

Yes, more irrationality from DU.

[eleny]

17. I believe that Howard Dean's spine would have fought more for us than for the insurance corporations

You say "abrasive", I say "assertive".

[Armstead]

18. Oh God that sword again....."Reality"

Can't you people get out a dictionary and at least find a few synonyms?

[LastNaturalist]

21. No, be cause reality is all we get.

[Armstead]

28. Reality is always in the eye of the beholder

Your reality is not mine. When you claim it as universal, you are being arrogant.

And it has become meaningless because it has been used so regularly and meaninglessly by conservatives and anti-liberal Democrats.

[LastNaturalist]

38. No it's not and that is one of the problems with America today.

What do you think of the "realities" of Glenn Beck and Rush Limbaugh? Or how about their fans? With the advent of the internet, people get to make up their own realities around them to insulate themselives into believing whatever they want. We call those people "nuts" - however, there are a lot of them.

[EFerrari]

51. You're right. And in shared reality, Howard Dean is the best thing

the Democratic wing of the Democratic Party has going for it. Not the insurance companies, not Big Pharma, not the AMA, but us.

[Armstead]

54. You miss the point....Deliberatly?

This dismissive claim that one has to support a certain worldview to be a "realist" has become a meaningless cliche.

Let's assume for the moment that I believe my view of reality is true reality. You believe your view of reality is true reality. A teabagger believes his view of reality is true reality.

That's a given.

So if you want to beat up on those eho oppose whatever it is you happen to support, just assume that and move on from that to make whatever point you want to make.

It saves so much typing.

[saracat]

19. Is this the new version of "watch what you say" circa the Bush years?

The reality is the people have NO representation in this WH. And howard Dean is right to call out this sellout of a bill. Wrong is wrong no matter who is in power.And there has been precious litlle good work by this WH.

[ima_sinnic]

22. it appears that Dean's "abrasive personality" is more effective than Obama's "kumbaya" approach, no?

at least somebody is being assertive on behalf of We The People.

Dean can raise a small army at the snap of his fingers, figuratively, and donations to match--an army and donations that would have gone to Obama if he hadn't shown that the only followers and donors he needs are CEOs and Wall St. scumbags. Dean set the record for instant, online donations before Obama came along and stole all his tactics. And if it weren't for Dean and his 50-state strategy, Obama would just be footnote now.

So allow me to add another unrec to this asinine, uninformed OP.

[tabatha]

23. Howard Dean got Obama into office.

Not totally on his own, but his contribution was enormous - back to the days of his use of the internet, and then his 50 state strategy.

[EFerrari]

25. And that's reality. Thank you.

[LastNaturalist]

33. Yeah, that's not true at all.

Some of you believe "Dean is Magic!"

[EFerrari]

37. Get a life, crack a book, surf the intertubes.

Then you won't be reduced to name calling when you're wrong.

Maybe you'll learn the grace to admit that someone has a point.

[LastNaturalist]

45. So how'd he do it? School me. How did Howard Dean elect Barack Obama?

[EFerrari]

47. Did you read the post you responded to?

Howard Dean did two things that were essential to the Obama campaign.

He trailblazed internet organizing. And, despite the best efforts of Rahm "I got mine" Emanuel, he worked that 50 state strategy as if his own career was on the line. And even after he was disrespected by the very young Obama White House, he was still out there, supporting it.

The very LAST person the Obama White House should be bashing is Howard Dean. The very, very last person.

[LastNaturalist]

53. Yeah it was rather vague.

His 50 state strategy was not used though. Obama never campaigned in Idaho, Wyoming, Alabama, etc. in the general election. And Howie did well with internet fundraising and where did that get him? Right, 3RD place in Iowa. So, I think Obama's fundraising (and Hillary Clinton who also did better than Howie, and did not become president) had only a small fragment to do with Obama's success.

[EFerrari]

57. The measure of how well Dean did is in how much support he has TODAY

even though the whole Dem leadership tried to tank him FIVE YEARS AGO.

That you can disrespect someone like Howard Dean says much more about you than you can ever say about Howard Dean.

[LastNaturalist]

59. ...on here. Unrepresentative of the Democratic Party.

3rd place in Iowa, 2004. Ring a bell?

[EFerrari]

61. Here at DU, with a majority of women voters, the Democratic base.

:hi:

[LastNaturalist]

65. So why did he get 3rd in Iowa? Only the Dem base likes to caucus in January.

[EFerrari]

68. Why did Obama lose in NH?

You're way out into the weeds and there's bound to be some rocks out there.

The bottom line is, the White House shouldn't be attacking HOWARD DEAN and coddling JOE LIEBERMAN. That's not change, hope or audacity. That's just SAD.

[girl_interrupted]

71. Obama also lost in California, New York, New Jersey & Pennsylvania

But who cares about that now? Like winning a primary, is all there is. If that's the only thing you can use to measure a person's "accompishments"....it's lame. I agree with you, attacking Dean is sad, and not called for...especially while kissing Joe Liebermans a**

[avaistheone1]

50. Dean won it for Obama with Dean's 50 state strategy.

It is a fact.

[ChiciB1]

74. But Do You REMEMBER Who Took Credit For What Howard Dean Did??

Not a hard answer... but I'll say it anyway! It's that Rahm Guy! He was strutting around taking ALL the credit and I was seeing RED!!

It was Dean's idea and they just ran roughshod over him! I have NEVER liked Rahm, and told many people BEFORE Obama got elected that I didn't, so when he picked him for COS, I GROANED!

So HERE WE ARE... thanks, but no thanks Rahm!

[avaistheone1]

86. Dean did it. Dean blew everyone out of the water with his winning 50 state strategy.

[sweetloukillbot]

91. The 50-state strategy did give us the majorities we're enjoying now...

But look at some of the names that were a result of it - they're the Blue Dogs, DINOS, Republicrats, pick your pejorative, that have been voicing objections to HCR. It mostly wasn't progressive Dems who won in red districts in 06 and 08. Howard Dean is also the one who said that we should be targeting the redneck voter (I'm paraphrasing). I even remember him being attacked as not really a liberal during the 04 campaign.
I love Dean, and I generally agree with him on issues - I voted for him in 04 and would've loved to vote for him in 08, but his role in the Democratic party has not always been that of a liberal firebrand.

Not saying this to flame Dean, or Deaniacs, the 50-state strategy was brilliant. The problem is that we need a big tent to win elections from Republicans in red states, and then unfortunately we have to find some compromise on the actual issues or else we lose those same gains.

[girl_interrupted]

42. Dean has already "governed", served 6 terms as governor

Howard Brush Dean III is an American politician and physician from the U.S. state of Vermont. He served six terms as governor of Vermont . Before entering politics, Dean received his medical degree from the Albert Einstein College of Medicine in 1978. Dean was elected to the Vermont House of Representatives as a Democrat in 1982 and was elected lieutenant governor in 1986. Both were part-time positions that enabled him to continue practicing medicine. In 1991, Dean became governor of Vermont when Richard A. Snelling died in office. Dean was subsequently elected to five two-year terms, serving from 1991 to 2003, making him the second longest-serving governor in Vermont history, after Thomas Chittenden (1778–1789 and 1790–1797).

Dean served as chairman of the National Governors Association from 1994 to 1995; during his term, Vermont paid off much of its public debt and had a balanced budget 11 times, lowering income taxes twice. Dean also oversaw the expansion of the "Dr. Dynasaur" program, which ensures universal health care for children and pregnant women in the state. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Howard_Dean

I'd say he's a pretty accomplished man, one worth listening to.

And yes, he also helped Obama win.

[LastNaturalist]

58. ....of Vermont.

And finished 3rd place in Iowa in 2004. But I do like his "A" rating from the NRA and his early affiliation with the Democratic Leadership Council. I'm hard on him because I think he's full of hot air, but I will give him those.

[girl_interrupted]

69. Where he lowered income tax, paid off debt& got universal health care

for children and pregnant women. I would have loved to see what he could have done nationally.

As for his NRA rating...Obama signed a credit card bill that has no caps AND allows concealed weapons in National Parks. Surprised? I certainly was & not pleasently. No frowns on the faces of the members of the NRA..just on consumers subjected to Usury & loansharking by the very same banks that took our taxpayer dollars, interest free for their bailouts.

I'm not thrilled with this either: "President Obama writes a new health reform prescription"

On the campaign trail, Barack Obama vowed to take on the drug industry by allowing Americans to import cheaper prescription medicine. "We'll tell the pharmaceutical companies 'thanks, but no, thanks' for the overpriced drugs -- drugs that cost twice as much here as they do in Europe and Canada," he said back then.

On Tuesday, the matter came to the Senate floor -- and President Obama forgot the "no, thanks" part. Siding with the pharmaceutical lobby, the administration successfully fought against the very idea Obama had championed." http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/12/15/AR2009121504196.html

So you know what? People have a right to take Obama to task, if he promises one thing and does another.

And by the way....george bush was re-elected twice and was a friggin nightmare both times. Just because someone wins the presidency doesn't make them right. I'll take Dean's accomplishments, as having a profound and postive effect on the lives of the people, whose state he governed...over a "winner" like george w bushit.

[avaistheone1]

82. Dean hasn't achieved unprecedented results on difficult issues. Now that is leadership.

[Peregrine Took]

75. Yes. Then he and Rahmo booted HD out the door. n/t

[treestar]

99. Wouldn't that have applied to any Democrat who won the office?

[Kahuna]

31. Rut roh.. Someone pass the popcorn, please.

:popcorn:

[crappyjazz]

32. Congratulations, you've it the nail with the packaged hammer.

You have a personable president, excellent. Don't forget, he's good looking too.

Marketing 101.

No logo.

[LastNaturalist]

34. Yeah because electing black liberals to the presidency is so easy!

:eyes:
:eyes:
:eyes:

[crappyjazz]

40. I'm not sure what point you're trying to make now

Maybe you should start a second thread for this one?

[EFerrari]

44. What does black have to do with this?

Exactly?

[and-justice-for-all]

39. Just because I agree with Dean does not mean

I do not side with Obama on other things, he just so happens to be tossing us under the bus on Health Care, rather then advocating for a PO.

[BeyondGeography]

56. K&R

[LastNaturalist]

60. There is another who supports the President?!

And realizes that being a pundit talking head is easy?

Bless you.

[EFerrari]

64. Supporting the president when he is wrong is a disservice to him

and to the country.

[LastNaturalist]

66. Fair enough.

[last_texas_dem]

62. Oh well, I feel better represented by Howard Dean's mouth than by Obama.

[watercolors]

67. Dean speaks out both sides of it too!

nt

[Better Believe It]

70. "Keep up the good work" indeed. They are doing an fine job representing the insurance industry and

coddling conservatives like Senator Leiberman.

Why does Dean have to open his mouth and spoil the whole show?

[ChiciB1]

72. Oh My... I Certainly Don't Agree... It's YOUR Opinion & YOU ARE Entitled

to it! But I ain't SIGNING ON!!

[mdmc]

73. sing it!

USA!USA!

[jgraz]

76. If only Dear Leader could be a corporate sellout without any of the proles complaining

Wouldn't that be nice?

[gaspee]

77. Good work?

Are you fucking HIGH?!?!

[UrbScotty]

78. THANK YOU, LastNaturalist!!

:applause::applause::applause::applause::applause:

[Zodiak]

81. 1. Pretend Obama has never needed liberals...check

2. Smear Howard Dean, check

3. Baselessly assert that "reality" is the sole province of people that agree with you....check

Yeah...standard fare...for flamebait.

Be more productive than this.

"Reality" dictates that people who you treat like crap are not going to suddenly agree with you because you cajoled them.

You undermine your own goal here....your goal IS to get liberals behind this crappy bill, right?

[midnight armadillo]

84. Dean in the WH? Hmmm...

...maybe a bit abrasive. But honest.

[dkf]

85. OMG, you think the Senate Dems are doing a good job?

I find that so laughable I can hardly stand it.

[depakid]

87. LOL! Yet another shallow apologist

making excuses and cheerleading for public policy failures.

Every time I read one if these, it gives me some small solace to know that some people in the states deserve exactly what they get and then some!

[Moochy]

88. I CAN HAZ MESSG DISSIPLINN?

[spoony]

90. I declare Moochy winner of this thread. nt

[avaistheone1]

89. Obama is only interested in governing the fat cats, the millions of the rest of us are irrelevant.

[Divine Discontent]

92. being a sweetly smooth talker with your mouth doesn't solve problems

and benefiting the wealthy is a pretty crappy thing in my book, but there's been tens of billions handed out to corporations, and the pigs on wall st. have gotten away with everything they did.

[soapystern]

93. i don't get it

where did we go wrong

[BzaDem]

94. K&R.

You speak the truth.

[JNelson6563]

95. Here, let me refill your glass.

Kool-aid sure goes down easy, doesn't it?

[grahamhgreen]

96. WRONG! Obama was elected to REPRESENT THE MAJORITY OF 306m people, not the insurance industry.

[treestar]

97. Amen!