Bill Clinton: Killing Health Bill Is 'Colossal Blunder'

[NJmaverick]

December 17, 2009

New York, NY - “America stands at a historic crossroads. At last, we are close to making real health insurance reform a reality. We face one critical, final choice, between action and inaction. We know where the path of inaction leads to: more uninsured Americans, more families struggling to keep up with skyrocketing premiums, higher federal budget deficits, and health costs so much higher than any other country’s they will cripple us economically.

Our only responsible choice is the path of action. Does this bill read exactly how I would write it? No. Does it contain everything everyone wants? Of course not. But America can’t afford to let the perfect be the enemy of the good.

And this is a good bill: it increases the security of those who already have insurance and gives every American access to affordable coverage; and contains comprehensive efforts to control costs and improve quality, with more information on best practices, and comparative costs and results. The bill will shift the power away from the insurance companies and into the hands of consumers.

Take it from someone who knows: these chances don’t come around every day. Allowing this effort to fall short now would be a colossal blunder — both politically for our party and, far more important, for the physical, fiscal, and economic health of our country.”

The BIG DOG has spoken and is once more trying to save the progressives from themselves.

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/dc/2009/12/bill-clinton-backs-obama-on-we.html#ixzz0ZyztMrL8

[dflprincess]

1. This coming from a "new Democrat"

should remove any doubt that Howard Dean is right.

[babylonsister]

3. No, this is coming from a man who saw reform fail firsthand. I'm

not a huge fan of Clinton, but he's earned the right to his opinion, and it might not be such a bad idea for people to listen to him after what he experienced.

[NJmaverick]

18. It would be a very good idea if they listened, but they won't

why listen to a brilliant man with the experience of two terms in the White House?

[movonne]

25. Please Clinton is nothing but a shill for the DLC and the DLC is running

the show...and it is also running Obama...it's all in the family..the only one I trust is Dean...He is not owned by the corporations who own the DLC..

[yurbud]

26. go back and look at the reform they tried. It looks an awful lot like this.

[babylonsister]

37. It doesn't look anything like this. Obama was criticized because he

has tried to keep his tactics so far removed from Clinton's.

[PhilosopherKing]

66. This is the man who gave us NAFTA

If we objected then, things would be much better now.

[babylonsister]

77. I thought this thread was about health care. nt

[ima_sinnic]

100. the thread is about Clinton's opinion, which I no longer respect, in good part b/c of NAFTA

he'll say whatever the corpos want him to say as he is one of them.

[NJmaverick]

5. This coming from a Democrat that actually has done a lot of good for our nation

and the party. While I acknowledge Dr Dean's contributions to the 2008 elections succes, that's pretty much all he accomplished. The former 2 term Democratic President has quite a bit more on his resume, plus he doesn't have the bitterness baggage (over being turned down for a cabinet post) that Dean may have.

[dflprincess]

44. How's NAFTA working out for ya? n/t

[bvar22]

60. +2

AND the Telecommunications Act 1996

AND the repeal of Glass Steagall

It is not for nothing that Bill is called the best Republican President of the 20th Century,
and now he is shilling for another Republican Bill that will transfer a historical amount of Public Money to the pockets of For Profit Corporations.

Color me "Not Surprised".

[AzDar]

88. + 1

[jgraz]

131. Actually, Nixon was better.

[NJmaverick]

61. I would trade for the Clinton years in a heart beat. Those were good times

Even with the repukes trying to rain on our nation's parade with Newt and his Contract for America. Thanks to Bill the Repukes were never ever to claim they were better for the Economy again.

[Milo_Bloom]

109. Then you don't understand "the Clinton years"

The meltdown is 2007-2008 was a combined effort between Clinton and bush.

Massive deregulation started under Clinton, allowing for banks to consolate and make risky ventures. "Too big to fail" only became possible because the Clinton administration allowed it to begin.

The "Clinton Years' were good for the same reason the first several years under bush were economically good... we were inflating bubble, after bubble, after bubble to create the false sense of wealth.

[Carolina]

129. Exactly!

[jgraz]

132. Item Ten Billion and One on the list of things NJmav doesn't understand.

:eyes:

[Mimosa]

134. ^ Milo's GOT IT! ^ n/t

[ShortnFiery]

6. +1

:thumbsup:

[Prism]

2. Once more?

If anything, progressives needed saving from Bill Clinton. NAFTA, DOMA, Glass-Steagall, etc. etc. etc.

Yes, let's ask former President Clinton whether or not he believes a gigantic "centrist" sell-out is a good idea.

[NJmaverick]

9. How have the progresives helped capture the White House or Congress?

who saved us from the "Reagan Revolution"? I'll give you a small hint, it wasn't the progressives who talk more than produce results.

[Prism]

27. I don't think you know any of the answers to your own questions.

And further, I don't think you want to know them.

[Bodhi BloodWave]

40. and to me it looks like you are evading n/t

[Milo_Bloom]

111. No one saved us from the Reagan Revolution

We are still in it, because the "moderate" democrats decided to abandon their progressive roots and embrace the very process that has put us in the mess we are in and remain in.

The basic tennants of the reagan revolution exist today and were continued under CLinton and are being continued under Obama... low taxes for the wealthy, deregulation and corporate welfare when necessary.

Maybe if Clinton hadn't been such a corpororatist we COULD Have been saved, but he kept the Reagan ball rolling.

[rurallib]

4. Not 'kill the bill' but rework it and run it through reconciliation.

Bill Clinton: look this is all you can get - take it even if it sucks big time.

[Larkspur]

7. Under Bill Clinton, the Dem Party lost thousands of members, lost Congress

and lost the White House for the last 8 years.

Today Bill Clinton is a Fat Cat corporate whore. He's got no credibility on this crappy bill.

[NJmaverick]

11. This the same Bill Clinton that gave them the spine they needed after the 2004 elections?

The same man that captured the White House TWICE?

[Sebastian Doyle]

15. Howard Dean gave the Democratic party the spine after the 2004 elections

It was actually the DEMOCRATIC party again between 2005- 2008.

[NJmaverick]

21. President Clinton has first hand experience dealing with health care reform at the federal level

Dean has absolutely no experience in that arena.

[Sebastian Doyle]

47. President Clinton has first hand experience caving into a Repuke congress

and being a corporate loving DLC triangulator. NOT the kind of experience needed at the moment.

[ima_sinnic]

102. Pres. Clinton has firsthand experience with health care FAIL (nt)

[Larkspur]

19. He never got Congress back in the hands of the Dems

Bill Clinton is for Bill Clinton. He's not for the Dem Party. He uses the Dem Party like a "John" uses a prostitute for sex.

[NJmaverick]

23. lol! compared to the self proclaimed progessives he is like the frickin

DNC chairman.

[dgibby]

127. George Bush captured the WH twice, too. What's your point? n/t

[lapfog_1]

8. You know, history is NOT being kind to President Clinton.

The current financial crises and the bank bailouts are directly traceable to his policies or laws that he signed.

And need I mention what his trade policies and treaties have done?

Bill was all about what was good for American CORPORATIONS, not so much the American people.

Pardon me if I tune out what "Big Dog" has to say about this.

[NJmaverick]

13. Only if you practice an Orwellian (or a right winger) version of history

they still remember his economic successes including a growing economy and turning record deficits to record surpluses. They remember the relative peace and prosperity. They remember the new found respect he gained around the world and the peace he brokered and the lives he saved in Kosovo.

As for tuning out, I didn't expect you to be open minded.

[Armstead]

17. Um financial deregulagton....Wall St meltdown last year.. Remember those little mistakes?

[NJmaverick]

22. He was 7 years removed from office, I thought only right wingnuts were still trying to blame

President Clinton for everything

[SIMPLYB1980]

30. No the left loved to do it, just as they now love to do

it to Obama, and just as they would anyone that could be elected president. If they somehow magically elected DK they would do the same to him, because he would also never live up to their unrealistic expectations.

[lapfog_1]

32. Who signed banking deregulation into law.

Sometimes disasters are decades in the making.

Responsibility should be laid at the feet of those responsible.

The repukes played their part, especially Phil Gramm. But Bill signed it.

[NJmaverick]

46. So nothing could be done in 7 years it was a law that couldn't be touched?

What's next talk of White Water or if he inhaled?

[Armstead]

Wrongo -- Most analysts trace the reason for the crash to 1990's deregulation

Even Alan Greenspan did a giant mea culpa for the connection between Clinton era deregulation and the crash.

[NJmaverick]

45. Yup Drudge, Rush Limbaugh, Bill ORiellly and so on

[Armstead]

55. Okay game over... .If those are the only people you think said that...

then you obviously have not been paying attention.

[NJmaverick]

64. You keep nice company

[Armstead]

68. If it were not such a waste of time I;d be happy to give you....

a boatload of opinion from liberal, moderate and conservative experts and other analysts from all over the spectrunm on this.

But since you seem to have a chromium cap on, it's not worth the time.

[NJmaverick]

71. You're right your cherry picked selection wouldn't sway me as I think for myself

Although I am impressed that you figured that out. Maybe there is hope for you yet.:hi:

[depakid]

41. They were his policies!

No one forced him to sign the bills....

[NJmaverick]

48. and after so many years he no longer can be blamed for the Economy

while he was in charge things ran great

[depakid]

75. The consequences flowed directly from policies he signed off on

several of which, which- incredibly enough, were adopted after the LTCM meltdown.

So even if one can give him a pass for ignoring the warnings (yes, we warned him and other Democrats about financial, energy & media deregulation, etc.) - having seen the foreshadowing with LTCM, there was no excuse.

That the Republicans didn't "fix things" -or that they squelched FBI investigations into massive mortgage fraud in 2004 doesn't absolve he and the DLC type Dems for the policies that they along with Republicans put into place.

In reality, it ought to have been a lesson- one that unfortunately, seems not to have been learned.

[NJmaverick]

80. Sorry but to believe you claims I would have to believe the government was utterly powerless for the

7 years after he left office and that those people were not responsible for anything.

Nice try, I have seen many a wingnut trying to blame Clinton for the GOP's failings. Never thought I would see supposed liberals/dems stoop to that same low.

[lapfog_1]

85. Thom Hartmann has for a long time.

but then, he has history and facts on his side, and no blinders on.

In fact, he goes even further back to when Nixon and Reagan were in office to find the seeds of the current state of our economy.

Try reading some history.

And, yes, he blames Clinton too (and to a large degree).

[NJmaverick]

95. I have heard Thom Hartman he sounds like a crazy person

[lapfog_1]

122. I'm am quite certain that Thom is much much more intelligent

and well read on this subject and many others than you are.

How do I know this? Because I am a lot brighter and well read than you are. And Thom is likely a titch smarter than me.

[depakid]

86. You're in denial

By signing off, Clinton owed these policies- and HE AND THE COMPLICT DEMS WERE WARNED REPEATEDLY OF THE PROBABLE CONSEQUENCES.

Brooksley Born for example called the shot- but was arrogantly maligned- along with the other progressive groups that saw thew writing on the wall.

You can't simply pawn that off and expect Republicans to repeal what mirrored their own ideology. But you CAN and SHOULD expect Democrats to have more sense- and more integrity than to go along with corrupt and irrational right wing policies in the first place.

[NJmaverick]

96. Damn right I will deny your attempts to blame Clinton for the repuke's failings

[depakid]

115. Clinton earned his legacy through incessant pandering to the right

and promotion of their policies. That's a set of inescapable facts.

[lapfog_1]

83. Disingenuoius and idiotic argument.

That's the same as saying "The captain of the Titanic resigned and named the first officer captain right after hitting the iceberg, but the ship was perfectly OK while he was captain because it hadn't sunk yet".

[NJmaverick]

97. Well I bow to your apparent expertise (from practice no doubt) on the topic

[polmaven]

74. Oh, c'mon now!

You know very well he was responsible for the Great Depression, as well as the Viet Nam War and the extinction of mankind's greatest friends - the dinosaurs.

Wassa matta you? anyway? Doncha member your history?

[NJmaverick]

81. Sadly until this thread, I never saw a supposed liberal/Dem try the repuke's favorite

blame President Clinton for all their short comings.

[polmaven]

99. Then you haven't been paying close enough attention

There are alleged dems here who despise Bill Clinton and everything he has ever done. The dreaded Deee Ellllll Ceeee is the world's most evil organization EVAH!

[NJmaverick]

105. That is just utterly shameless and disgraceful!

[polmaven]

119. I couldn't agree with you more...

:cry:

[lapfog_1]

28. Yeah, ask all those folks in Rwanda about how America

stood up for them and stuff... oh wait.

Bill benefited from a revolutionary technology that changed how we work. The internet. And I'll even credit him with some of the success (though, really, it was Al Gore - who didn't invent it, but certainly was central to letting it loose for commercial development).

But Bill also gutted the banking regulations... which allowed the financial crises of 2008/2009. And NAFTA and the rest of the trade policy also killed our manufacturing capability. Bill thought that workers could be "retrained" for better higher paying jobs... not realizing that Chinese and Indian workers could just as easily be "trained" for those jobs and would do them for a fraction of what Americans would do them for. Oops.

This is a re-write of history, just a realization that Bill was, at best, a stooge for the corporatists. And that's not a wing nut evaluation. That's an eyes wide open progressive evaluation. Bill Clinton was no progressive. The DLC is not something that favors the middle class.

[NJmaverick]

62. lol! The underside of that bus is getting crowded, those so called progressives

may need another bus

[freddie mertz]

50. I remember that prosperity, but it was built on foundations of air.

We know more now than we did then.

You need to catch up.

[NJmaverick]

73. It was more than air, it was real jobs and real prosperity

yet this discuss is giving me flash backs to the times I defended President Clinton from a wide assortment of right wing nut jobs who hated his guts and blamed him for everything from the weather to male pattern baldness.

[freddie mertz]

120. I defended him too.

And I do not hate his guts.

But we all know now that some key decisions and policies taken by the Rubin-Summers team contributed to the current crisis.

This is not news.

[freddie mertz]

10. Had to unrec it twice! Yikes.

I kinda like Bill, but he is the cavalry here.

And while I think of it, where was all this expression of "concern" when the threat came from Stinky Joe and Bill Nelson?

[NJmaverick]

65. How do you manage two unrecs?

[freddie mertz]

121. Two threads with the same OP.

[Sebastian Doyle]

12. Bill Clinton told us he would fix NAFTA

and it still sucks ass. As do all the other shitty corporatist trade agreements that followed.

"Pass this piece of shit and we'll fix it later" is a lie. And Bill is the one who taught us that. Thanks, Big Dog.

[saracat]

14. I love Bill but he is wrong.Unlike dean, he has no choice but to

support the WH. He is not only a former Prez but his wife is part of the Amin. What elese can he say?

[NJmaverick]

20. Unlike Dean he has experience with this issue at the Federal level

you might prefer dean because he reinforces your preconceived notions, but Clinton has infinitely more credibility on this issue.

[lapfog_1]

34. Why does he have to say anything? - n/t

[NJmaverick]

67. He is saying something because it's the RIGHT THING to do

[lapfog_1]

76. This piece of crap is the right thing to do?

Seriously?

What's to love about it?

[NJmaverick]

79. Oh that it will save thousands of lives of those who will now be able to get health care

how about that little thing?

[lapfog_1]

89. Prove it.

I think it's worse than doing nothing. I don't think that very many of those 30 M people will actually get health insurance anytime soon. And it's a massive transfer of wealth from the taxpayer to the corporations (again).

[NJmaverick]

98. I have to disprove your beliefs?

What happened to you proving the bill will not do what it is intended to do?

[ima_sinnic]

114. no, poster asked YOU to prove your malarkey that it will "save thousands of lives"

what part of "overpriced insurance co. bailout/giveaway/highway robbery" don't you understand?

[NJmaverick]

16. You would think with all the unrecs I just mentioned President Clinton's name at a RNC meeting

or a tea party gathering.

[dgibby]

128. You're assuming the unrecs are because of the topic? n/t

[iceman66]

24. I agree with President Clinton.

I guess that puts me in the minority here, but so be it.

[NJmaverick]

54. Hey being a majority doesn't mean you're right

in fact if American history is any guide, odds are better if you are not in the majority

[jgraz]

29. And no one knows "Colossal Blunders" better than Slick Willy.

NAFTA, GATT, Welfare Reform, Repeal of Glass-Steagall, Commodities Futures Modernization Act. Without Bill Clinton, there would have been no George W. Bush.

[NJmaverick]

57. Wow up until your post I had NEVER heard anyone but a freeper or a right wingnut

use that disrespectful term to describe Clinton. :puke:

[jgraz]

70. Respectfully suggest you read something besides your own DU posts.

Oh right -- you can't possibly read those either.

[NJmaverick]

84. I read more than the crap I see posted on DU, so I see things far clearer than you

with all due respect

[jgraz]

90. Uh huh.

Is that why you're desperately spinning to keep your idol's corporate agenda alive?

[NJmaverick]

92. Only thing I have seen is the same dishonest spin the right wingers have used for years to

attack President Clinton and try to blame him for their short comings.

[jgraz]

106. Yes, it's MY fault that AIG got too big to fail

Definitely not the fault of the corporate tool that signed the repeal of Glass-Steagall. :eyes:

[NJmaverick]

108. Your choice of AIG shows you don't even understand what Glass-Steagall invovled

roll eyes less, read more

[jgraz]

110. You DO understand what AIG was insuring, don't you?

Of COURSE you don't. Even a tenuous grasp of cause and effect, basic economics or simple logic would impair your ability to shill 24/7.

[Carolina]

130. You're right, jgraz

I used to like Clinton but Ross Perot and Marcy KAptor (D-Ohio) have been proven right about NAFTA and that giant sucking sound of the job losses to Mexico it would cost. And last year's economic crisis was directly tied to the Commodities Futures Modernization Act which Clinton signed in 1999, effectively repealing FDR's Glass-Steagall Act and thereby creating the too big to fail behemoths like AIG that we the people bailed out. At the time in 1999, ironically, there were some who presciently warned that in 10 years we would reap the whorlwind of the CMFA and sure enough in 2008-2009 we did.

Recall too that Clinton and Liebermann were instrumental in creating the DLC and Robert Rubin (Mr Goldman Sachs himself) was Clinton's Secretary of the Treasury!

Some here blindly defend any Democrat, but truth is truth and history is history. And you are right :hi:

[yurbud]

31. that would be credible if Obama lifted a finger to make it ''good.'' when he praises ratfuck Joe

Lieberman's contribution, you know something is really, really wrong.

[alcibiades_mystery]

33. Big Dog UNDER THE BUS*!!!

*Proviso--Despite the claims of some progressives who seek to immunize themselves from the phrase "under the bus," I understand the "bus" to be not a metaphor for established "power" so much as a metaphor for the power of group dynamics. To wit, to be thrown "under the bus" means to be somebody who would generally be looked at as an ally by the group (i.e., on the bus), until such person says something contrary to the group opinion, at which point he or she is tossed "off the bus" in such a way as to intend harm (i.e., under the bus). The phrase is therefore applicable to any group whatsoever, since the "power" (which is to say, the bus) refers to inclusion and exclusion of even marginalized groups, since group dynamics work in otherwise marginalized groups as well.

:rofl:

[Prism]

36. He's been there for quite some time with me

DOMA alone merits my enduring disdain for the man.

The reason I opposed Sen. Clinton in the primaries is because I did not want another centrist, corporate friendly administration like her husband's. In fact, much of President Obama's primary support came from people who feared another Clinton administration.

So please don't act as if antipathy towards former President Clinton is new. It is not, especially among many liberals and progressives.

[alcibiades_mystery]

38. No complaint here

It does make some of the coalition building a little tenuous, though.

[NJmaverick]

51. Well done my friend, it's not like the Big Dog has any experience with heath care reform on the

federal level or 2 terms as President or is a brilliant man who has done many good works since leaving the White House or that he is probably one of the few people to actually read and understand the bill...

[bvar22]

135. Bill Clinton has experience FAILING at Health Care ....

...and then giving up.

Not the kind of "experience" that looks good on a resume.

[Mojambo]

35. From the President who brought us NAFTA and Telecom deregulation. n/t

[NJmaverick]

52. and one of the best periods of peace, prosperity and debt reduction in the 20th Century

[Mojambo]

59. Those bubbles look so pretty, until they pop. n/t

[amborin]

69. And, repealed Glass-Steagall!

[NJmaverick]

72. and he killed Vince Foster!

:sarcasm:

[amborin]

78. wow! you deny Clinton presided over Nafta and repealed Glass-Steagall!?

[NJmaverick]

82. Wow try to blame President Clinton for Bush's/GOP's short comings

never thought I see the day liberals/dems stooped to that level:puke:

[ima_sinnic]

116. what do they have to do with Clinton's presiding over repeal of Glass-Steagall?

ironically, John McCain and Maria Cantwell have just proposed reinstating Glass-Steagall

http://www.newsweek.com/id/226938

[ima_sinnic]

103. I think you're long overdue for my Ignore list (nt)

[katsy]

39. fuck you, bill.

[NJmaverick]

49. You're heart belongs to Howard Dean?

[ima_sinnic]

104. that's "your," not "you are"

sheesh --what does that post even mean, even when the grammar is fixed?

[katsy]

124. I have little or no regard for bill clinton.

Thus, the "fuck you, bill" statement.

I didn't say "fuck you, bill, my heart belongs to howard".

If this thread was about nafta, I'd say "fuck you, bill" again.

Capish?

[AllentownJake]

42. The entire reason why your wife is not President, Bill

Is we don't trust you.

[NJmaverick]

53. LOL! Now you are referring to yourself in plural

:rofl:

[AllentownJake]

56. I worked the primary

Let's just say, there was little love for Bill, there.

[hulka38]

43. DLC. Thought the invasion of Iraq was necessary to protect America.

[Umbral]

58. I bet there isn't a Senator, Dem or otherwise, that wouldn't take a call from Bill...

He should get Lieberman, Lincoln, Landrieu, Nelson, etc. on the phone to do some jaw bonin'. Telling me to eat another shit sandwich isn't gonna do a damn bit of good.

[NJmaverick]

63. I think you're right and it wouldn't surprise me if he does just that

President Clinton has always felt this was a very important issue.

[AzDar]

87. Good GOD... is that last sentence of yours for REAL??

:crazy:

[NJmaverick]

93. Is your's oh whirling eyed one?

[IndianaGreen]

113. It was progressives that saved Bill's philandering ass from being impeached

The BIG DOG has spoken and is once more trying to save the progressives from themselves.

If it hadn't been for Ken Starr's witch hunt, we would have roasted Bill's ass for being a sexual harasser. We stuck with him because we hated the other side's attempt to stage a coup on what was a civil matter.

[mcablue]

91. But I thought Clinton is bad because he blew it in the early 90's on health care

There is a group that praises the same politicians they criticize, depending on whether their comments are favorable to their cause or not.

[NJmaverick]

94. Yeah like the Clinton's were great when Hillary was running but now they are horrible

and they try to blame all the repuke's failings on the fine former President

[IndianaGreen]

101. Bill Clinton's NAFTA, DADT, and DOMA were colossal blunders!

[Milo_Bloom]

107. Says the man who brough us the banking crisis via massive deregulation.

And the media consolodation

And the loss of millions of manufacturing jobs thanks to unbalanced free trade agreements.

[NJmaverick]

112. Nice blame President Clinton for Bush's/GOP's failures

you really have gotten your priorities and perspective seriously messed up

[Milo_Bloom]

117. Wake up and smell reality please.. Clinton deserves blame.

for the part he played.

Deregulation STARTED under Reagan

and Clinton did absolutely NOTHING to stop it and in fact, continued it right along unfettered allowing media consolodation and the banking acts of the late 90's.

Maybe you should look into what ACTUALLY happened and find out why the economy was so "good" under Clinton. (It's called blowing up bubbles!)

[NJmaverick]

118. Are you serious? Is that you Ari?

have a lot of time on your hand since Bush left office?

[Milo_Bloom]

123. I guess you didn't pay attention to history.

[NJmaverick]

125. Like the last 9 years?

[Milo_Bloom]

126. Which followed the previous 8, perfectly.

Welcome to the realities of history.

bush built on Clinton's deregulation legacy and just inflated ANOTHER bubble.

It is a shame democrats are so unable to see reality beyond hero worship.

[DCBob]

133. Totally agree..

If anyone who would know the realities and risks of healthcare reform it would be Bill.

[cry baby]

136. I'm running with the Big Dog on this one. nt

[blueworld]

137. It gives every American access to affordable coverage? How?

The Medicare buy-in was surrendered. The Public Option was surrendered. Even the stupid trigger was surrendered. So the insurance companies promise to cover all with taxpayer-funded government subsidies as long as "all" can pay the premiums they charge. But they're free to raise the premiums as necessary. Where are the cost controls? Because now we can import cheaper drugs? Nope. What the hell are these people talking about????