For the Record: Howard Dean is not leading me to my opposition to this version of HCR

[Tom Rinaldo]

God knows I respect Howard Dean and his knowledge and his courage to speak out, but my concerns are my own and one could accurately say that they represent a preexisting condition.

Howard Dean is not instigating widespread dissatisfaction with what I consider the latest version of the HCR sell out in the Senate, he is helping to articulate to a larger audience something many of us have been feeling for a long time, and I am grateful to him for that as well. But at root this is no more about Howard Dean than it is about Barack Obama, ultimately it is about the health and well being of the American people. This administration may be uncomfortable hearing the message Howard Dean is carrying, but it should recognize a classic case of don't blame the messenger, deal with the circumstances that elicited the message instead. Take that message to heart or reject it, but know that it isn't one individual's dissatisfaction that lies at the root of a growing estrangement between this Administration and large portions of the Democratic Party activist base over the issue of health care reform.

This is about policy, not personalities.

[ananda]

1. Howard Dean speaks for millions!

nt

[ProSense]

2. Howard Dean committed a humongous gaffe.

He really wants the bill improved, but he made a statement that was so awkward it was taken out of context to mean he wanted the bill killed.

He could have articulated the points for improvement a lot better. For example, Andy Stern:

SEIU President Andy Stern, whose union, along with other major labor organizations, is agonizing over the current state of the health care fight, told reporters today that the Senate should pass a controversial reform bill that has riven the left. In so doing, he defended President Obama from his critics, and offered a scathing critique of the United States Senate, which he says is not up to the task of governance anymore.

"We appreciate that President Obama for a year has been unflinching in his desire to get the job done when it would've been easy to take a detour," Stern said. "We believe the Senate has done all its going to do...and now it's time for a couple of obstructionists to get out of the way."

Stern went on, "it is time for the Senate to send this bill on to conference where the real work needs to be done."

Still, Stern said he opposes the Senate bill in its current form--a bold stance for a consummate insider like Stern, who has often shied away from critiquing the Democrats' agenda.

"We don't like the bill," Stern said. "It has to be improved."


Without mentioning the public option specifically, Stern said that Obama needs to take a hard line in negotiations between the House and the Senate, "to work with the conferees on the issues that he has said from the very beginning are important to him."

He did say, though, that the prospects for a public option or a Medicare buy-in seem pretty dim. "It's hard to imagine it getting it better in conference," he said.

Stern added that the clumsy, year-long fight over health care in the Senate needs to serve as a wake up call to elected officials that the upper chamber is broken.

"After this bill is passed," Stern said, "the Senate needs to take a very hard look at how it's going to deal with the future in our country."

"They have a process now that is not meeting the needs of the American people."

And what if, in conference, Stern's chief concerns (affordability, access, the financing mechanism in the Senate bill) are not addressed? It's far from clear that he'll break ranks with the Democratic party.

"There are lots of parts of the Senate bill that are really good," he said.

edited word.

[Tom Rinaldo]

3. I hear you but I disagree

I think a glass of cold water thrown in the face was exactly the right measured response to wake this Administration up to how seriously they underestimated the depth of the discontent their latest round of compromises has sown. Let Andy Stern make his comments, it's all for the good. At the end of the day either this HCR effort will be improved enough for both Andy and Howard to sign off on it or it won't. Call it good cop/ bad cop if you must, but a message serves no purpose if it isn't heard loud and clear.

[ProSense]

4. "I think a glass of cold water thrown in the face"

is not always a good idea.

[Tom Rinaldo]

5. On that we can agree, lol

But sometimes it is needed to "wake someone up" when danger is approaching, and those are exactly the times when it can be of very great service.

[DCBob]

12. Yep. Howard fkd up again.. This is another example of why he will never make it...

as national politician. He does not understand or know how to play politics. I was a Deaniac back in 2003 and he could have won except he did not play the political games correctly. He is making the same mistakes again now.

[madfloridian]

17. lol Dean is making the mistake of being honest and speaking out

while the others are cowed by leadership that calls you crazy if you disagree. Oh, wait, I forgot...they don't call Ben and Joe crazy.

[Armstead]

6. he was great onn gthye Ed Show just now-- Leave in the good stuff,, take out the bad

Dean had the perfect answer to those pushing for a junk bill at any cost.

In essence he said "This bill has some really giood things in it. It also has a lot of garbage that are gifts to the insurance industry, including mandates to buy private insuarnce. Take out the bad stuff, leav in the good stuff and pass it now. Tghen come back later with a good plan to fix the rest."

[Tom Rinaldo]

7. For that matter, I hope no one supports or opposes the current plan

...just because Obama does. The issue isn't Dean, the issue isn't Obama, the issue is HCR.

[angee_is_mad]

8. Well tell your comrades

to stop making it about Obama then.

Don't stir shit up and then try to walk away with clean hands! The progressives are going on a very dangerous path right now and if some of the posters do what they say they are going to do (primary Obama) it is going to bite them in the ass.

They would have kissed the most loyal democratic voting bloc away. This is not a threat, but a promise. If some of you would visit other diverse, progressive blogs it will open your eyes.

[Tom Rinaldo]

9. I long ago learned that a few hundred people can always say anything they want on the internet

...while claiming to speak for millians. Happens all of the times, doesn't matter what the issue is. And the same thing happens with leftists rightists and centrists, doesn't matter what the ideology is either.

You should know full well that there are Obama supporters also who try to make everything about Obama, every issue becomes a loyalty test and every disagreement on policy becomces an effort to damage him.

[angee_is_mad]

10. In your opinion

I've been a member of DU for a few years now. I found DU before I discovered the Afrosphere.

Since blogging, I have found that some progressives have a paternalistic attitude to some segments of the democratic base.

I have a question for you. How many progressives supported nader's first run for President versus African Americans? Who stayed with the party? So who is the base? Or does one portion of the base (?) matter more than the other?

Guess you only count if you have blog, byline or get on tv and say you speak for the democratic base even if you DON'T.

What I am seeing on this forum is SICKENing. You say it isn't about Obama, but most of the threads supporting the President look like this<0 and the ones calling for his head have recs in double digits. Of course all of these posters state how hard they supported and worked to get him elected.

[bigwillq]

11. Are you really basing some of your claims

on a freaking rec system? :shrug: For real? Wow. I unrec some posts just to get a reaction out of people. It's entertaining when someone whines about a thread getting un'rec. Like, "how dare we un'rec them". The rec/unrec system is BS. I have fun using it, though. The majority of the posters here support the president in some form or another. A lot are angry, disappointed and upset at this time, which is why there seems to be an anti-Obama sentiment here at this moment. Some just don't like the man. That's fine. Some never will. That's ok too. Some are trouble makers. Some are trolls. That's what you get from a public and open discussion board.

[Tom Rinaldo]

13. We can have a long dialogue over time, I'm willing....

...but you have a lot on your mind and it seems to extend well beyond the scope of this OP and I'm about to call it a night. I'm 60, from the working class, and I've been on DU since late 2002. I'm not exactly a newbie either to politics or to this form of blogging - so there is a lot of ground to cover.

There have been times on DU when posts critical of Obama tend to end up like <0 also, one could even say there are mood swings here. That in itself is not unusual. Issues involving race in America have always carried some type of charge also, that is unlikely to completely change for some time. "Minorities" have long been a strong part of the Democratic base, but make up a much smaller portion of the netroots - that has long been obvious. Unions too have long been a strong part of the Democratic Base, that is fading but far from faded, many bloggers have had limited involvement with organized labor. But the netroots also play an important and increasing role in the Democratic Base, all of this remains a moving picture. There is much we could discuss but it is late, I am tired, and for now I am going to bed, lol.

Perhaps we can pick this up here again tomorrow or you can always PM me if you are interested in continuing in some other setting.

[angee_is_mad]

15. Have a good night.

...

[LooseWilly]

14. I've been saying, substantively, what Dean has been saying... since before I heard him saying it.

Having Howard Dead echo the conclusions that I came to independently is gratifying... and hearing Bernie Sanders saying something close as well is also reassuring. Makes me feel a little less crazy.

Policy, not personality indeed.

Dean is saying what many of us are saying. His knowledge on the subject is a powerful crystallizing force for the words with which many of us express the conclusion, but many have come to this same conclusion in parallel with (rather than as a result of) Dean's expression of this point of view.

Attacking Dean's judgment and conclusions in such a glib fashion is making it a lot easier to feel resentful of the White House, and Obama, though. How such an apparently skilled politician can fail to recognize the frustration that Dean is a visible expression of, rather than a catalyst of, is beyond me.

The fact that the White House is willing to use the "Bully Pulpit" to try to bully progressives and Dean into line, while showing themselves unwilling to use that same "Bully Pulpit" to try to bully the likes of Lieberman, Landrieu, or Nelson "into line"... is very disturbing and suspicious...

[madfloridian]

16. I am proud, not ashamed, to be on Dean's side on this.

The parts of the bill he is criticizing slipped up on me so I am grateful.

[angee_is_mad]

18. I know you' re not madfloridian

and it doesn't surprise me that you feel that way. I would have been surprise if you didn't side with dean.

But I respect your right to feel and speak how you want. God Bless America.

[Tom Rinaldo]

19. I am proud to stand with Dean on this also, Mad

I just don't think he should get all the heat for feelings that are wide spread. Let Adminstration spokespersons attack me and people like me for the positions I hold if they must. This is an issues driven dispute, not a personality contest, and I am not a sheep needing to be protected from the wrong type of leader.

[Armstead]

20. kck

[amborin]

21. OP's last sentence is best! "this is about policy, not personality" wish everyone realized this!