Pres. Obama Arguing against Mandates:

[amborin]

"...... What’s meant by a mandate is that the government is forcing people to buy health insurance and so she’s suggesting a parent is not going to buy health insurance for themselves if they can afford it. Now, my belief is that most parents will choose to get health care for themselves and we make it affordable.

Here’s the concern. If you haven’t made it affordable, how are you going to enforce a mandate. I mean, if a mandate was the solution, we can try that to solve homelessness by mandating everybody to buy a house. The reason they don’t buy a house is they don’t have the money. And so, our focus has been on reducing costs, making it available. I am confident if people have a chance to buy high-quality health care that is affordable, they will do so. That’s what our plan does and nobody disputes that.

The problem that people resisting the mandate seem to be having is that the health care offered through the Senate bill is not completely affordable, particularly to those in the middle class, and more important, it’s not of high quality. As Ian Welsh notes today, the Senate bill does not have annual caps for insurance companies and has on the aggregate a 70% actuarial value, and even lower for certain key groups. Welsh notes, “100 billion in subsidies doesn’t mean squat if they come tied to an expense people can’t afford, making them buy insurance which is not particularly useful.”"

snip

video:

<http://news.firedoglake.com/2009/12/17/video-of-obama-making-the-case-against-mandates/>

[Laelth]

1. How bout this ad that he ran against Hillary?

I had every reason to believe that President Obama would oppose the individual mandate. I chose to support him (over Hillary) principally for this reason. I, and a lot of people like me, feel betrayed.

:dem:

-Laelth

[amborin]

3. sickening hypocrisy

we have been so had

just feel sorry for all those 100s of millions of working Americans who pinned their hopes on Obama

[Fire1]

5. Not to be snide but did you read the OP at all? n/t

[Laelth]

8. How would it matter if I didn't?

:shrug:

:dem:

-Laelth

[Fire1]

11. Oh that's a real smart answer. n/t

[Indenturedebtor]

19. You wouldn't have a pile of words to shovel over the pile of crap that Obama will sign into law n/t

[IndianaGreen]

7. I remember Obama chiding Hillary about mandates during one of the TV debates

and myself and many others in DU took his side!

Mandates were bad then, and they are bad now.

[juno jones]

14. Yup me too.

I'm not much of one for cults of personality and I cringed to see one form around Obama, but I was listening to the healthcare talk then, and being one to vote on issues I agreed with what he was saying as opposed to Edwards and Clinton. I understood Obama's take on healthcare (I prefer Kuchinich's, but ya gotta compromise sometimes, right?) and supported him. Heck remember Hillary slipping out with that wet dream about needing insurance to be employed in the first place? I talked to my friends an co-workers about him and even sent a bit of money (which I'm beginning to regret, frankly) to see him elected.


He reminds me of why I gave up politics in the 90's under Clinton's rule. You fight so hard just to get shivved in the back by the 'liberal' politician you supported in the first place. Perhaps it's nothing personal, maybe the system twists every pol into a servant of corporate structure unless they are willing to be outsiders like Kuchinich or Sanders.

[Laelth]

15. I really hoped Obama wouldn't be another Clinton.

I tuned out for a few years under his Administration for exactly the same reason you did. I couldn't bear to watch.

:dem:

-Laelth

[juno jones]

16. I listened to NPR in those years

while driving to work. It all felt like a slow-motion trainwreck and I felt like a wreck by the time I arrived at my job :). I tuned out after welfare 'reform'. I saw too many of my friends hurt by that one to care anymore what was happening.

And I remember the names the idealists, liberals, and leftists were called back then by their party for speaking up when the party moved against the principles it campaigned on. It is a bit of history that seems to be repeating itself. "Leftbagger" is just newest and ugliest sister in the bunch.

cheers, J :hi:

[Laelth]

17. You're right. This is feeling awfully familiar. n/t

Cheers.

:toast:

:dem:

-Laelth

[LooseWilly]

21. Yeah, I pretty much gave up on politics in the 90s for that reason too.

This reminds me of why I voted for Cthulu in '96...

[smalll]

22. Wow. That campaign graphic is amazing.

"Is that the best we can do?"

I guess the answer to that question turned out to be -

YES, that's the best WE CAN do." :shrug:

[Laelth]

24. Some DU members actually distributed that campaign flier last year.

Imagine how they feel, now, when they have to face their neighbors.

:dem:

-Laelth

[Fire1]

2. DAMN, I wish I could rec this a thousand times! n/t

[BlueIdaho]

4. This is just soooooooo sad...

[mcablue]

6. I totally agree with Obama. Rec'd nt

[ProSense]

9. Obama was being smarter than his opponents,

who were talking about garnishing people's wages. He made the point that he was focusing on affordability not mandating coverage.

[Kitsune]

10. He was against the individual mandate before he was for it.

Just like a number of issues he's 180'd on.

[kelly1mm]

12. Get that guy to primary the President in 2012 ...... Oh wait.... nevermind. nt

[Vattel]

13. Maybe Obama changed his mind.

The problem with no mandates + no exclusion for pre-existing conditions is that it allows people to game the system, not buying insurance unless they get really sick. What would be interesting to me is how the pre-mandate Obama proposed to address that problem.

[Bluenorthwest]

18. the problem with 'he changed his mind' is that he concludes

his pitch with 'and no one disputes that'. This says that he has sought and heard alternative views, and found none to dispute his opposition to mandates. He claimed it was irrefutable. Undisputed fact. A reckless thing to say if one is still mulling over a position.

[eridani]

23. So what? If the mandates paid for CARE guaranteed by the government--

--that would be a different matter. Being forced to by a shitty product from mass murderers isn't the same at all.

[SOCALS]

20. The more promises are broken

by the President, the more I want Hillary to run in 2012

[Hell Hath No Fury]

27. There is virtually no difference between the two.

Just more of the same.

[JDPriestly]

25. And, of course, the one thing this bill does not do is reduce costs.

Obama has done a complete reversal. He needs to listen to his own campaign speech again.

[ProSense]

26. Obama saying he would consider mandates

here.

[Jersey Devil]

28. What does "completely affordable" mean?

You said, "people resisting the mandate seem to be having is that the health care offered through the Senate bill is not completely affordable"

That seems to at least be a concession that the Senate HCR bill does make insurance more affordable, at least once the subsidies kick in and for "middle class" families such as yours too.

But what is "completely affordable"? May I suggest that what you really mean is "free"?

If not, then perhaps you can explain to us what "completely affordable" health care is.

[Armstead]

29. How about a reasonable percentage of income? Not market rate

And whether subsidies will make any difference depends on whether they will be actual subsidies or "tax credits" which are a meaningless sliver compared to the cost of premiums unless one makes a lot of money and gets a lot taken out in taxes.

[Jersey Devil]

30. Answers we should know before beating each other over the head

You are right about that and I bet not a single person here knows the answer since I doubt anyone has waded through 700+ pages of legal mumbo jumbo.

The percentage thing might be a better way but I think we really won't find out what is the best way until we start doing it, which as I understand it will be 4 years from now. If there are major problems with it then it can be amended (or scrapped if it proves unworkable), but I think that no matter how you do it a mandate is necessary.