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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-17-09 11:47 PM
Original message
Kennedy and Kerry voted against the Dorgan amendment in 2007
Kerry's current vote had nothing to do with the PharMa deal. It was and still is about safety.

That is why Kerry voted for the Lautenberg amendment, which included stronger safety language.


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dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-17-09 11:52 PM
Response to Original message
1. Oh please
I will admit that at best reimportation is a temporary solution to the problem of overpriced pharmacuticals but it is nothing short of absurd to say that Canada's or Europe's drugs are somehow less safe than ours. This is about pharmacutical jobs in MA just like Hagan's vote is about pharmacutical jobs in NC.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-17-09 11:57 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. "Oh please"?
It has nothing to do with the current PharMa deal. Nothing.

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dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-18-09 12:00 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. I didn't say it did
I think anyone who switched votes from 07 to 09 probably did succumb to some form of either that deal or white house promsises. Kerry and Kennedy were simply representing the narrow interests of their state over the country's. That, sadly, is the job of Senators.
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Phoebe Loosinhouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-18-09 12:00 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. The safety argument is really an embarassment
It easy to see that a few plants manufacture and ship the drugs to all locales. If you buy from a reputable source -like a Canadian pharmacy that sells these drugs to Canadians - your risk is zilch.

This is the absolute lowest form of fear-mongering.

The White House TOLD them to kill the amendment to keep their crappy deal in place. We know this now. The ones who will talk about saftey and the FDA letter will just look compromised. They are compromised, but they hate to LOOK compromised.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-18-09 12:08 AM
Response to Reply #3
6. No it really isn't
Remember the contaminated pet food scare?

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dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-18-09 12:19 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. that was from china where no one is saying we should get drugs from
Neither Canada, nor Europe get drugs from China. It should be noted that the FDA did nothing to prevent the problems we had with toothpaste, nor fruit juice from China.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-18-09 12:22 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. The issue is safety
Safety, not guessing what the consequences might be, but taking steps to ensure it.

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dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-18-09 12:25 AM
Response to Reply #9
12. and Europe as well as Canada do that quite nicely
their publics aren't dropping in the streets from tainted drugs, nor does anyone seriously believe they are in any real danger of doing so anytime soon. I can see not reimporting from Mexico or other less well regulated countries, but both Canada and Europe have drug laws of similar stringency to ours and have shown no signs of having problems with their drugs. It is pretty ridiculous to argue otherwise.
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Hieronymus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-18-09 02:19 PM
Response to Reply #9
37. That's BS. it's a talking point used by cons and Big Pharma.
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grillo7 Donating Member (243 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-19-09 02:30 AM
Response to Reply #9
46. It may be the issue, but....
it's like putting off going on a cruise liner because you're afraid of a giant shark jumping on the deck and eating you. Uh...not much of a worry.
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Phoebe Loosinhouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-18-09 12:23 AM
Response to Reply #6
10. You are losing it. .
We can buy the same drugs manufactured in the same plant with the same risk at lower prices from licensed Canadian pharmacies versus American pharmacies selling the SAME product.

You are becoming really tedious.

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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-18-09 12:39 AM
Response to Reply #10
15. "You are becoming really tedious."
What's tedious is the obsession over the fact that a bill calls for safety measures.

"We can buy the same drugs manufactured in the same plant with the same risk at lower prices..."

Now exactly how does ensuring safety prevent this from happening?

How does the Lautenberg bill prevent this?



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burning rain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-18-09 12:23 AM
Response to Reply #3
11. An embarrassment to Kerry in particular, because he's a free-trade guy, voted for NAFTA.
Importing food--fine. Medicine--oh Jesus, no! He's full of shit on this issue.
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still_one Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-18-09 12:27 AM
Response to Reply #11
13. He voted first for before he voted against it, oh wait, that was something else
This safety talking point is B.S.

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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-18-09 12:32 AM
Response to Reply #11
14. You don't know a thing about Kerry.
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burning rain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-18-09 12:39 AM
Response to Reply #14
16. I know Kerry takes a modest-inspection free-trade line generally, worthy of the Wall Street Journal,
but onerous standards for medicine. He is full of shit on this issue.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-18-09 12:41 AM
Response to Reply #16
17. The people who are full of shit are those who swore
Edited on Fri Dec-18-09 12:42 AM by ProSense
that he voted against the bill because of the current PharMa deal. They were obviously and completely wrong.

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burning rain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-18-09 12:47 AM
Response to Reply #17
20. They were mistaken....
Edited on Fri Dec-18-09 01:07 AM by burning rain
because it's clear John's been Kerrying water for the price-gouging pharmaceutical industry longer than that.

Repent, therefore, and be ye saved, o Senator! :spank:
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-18-09 01:23 AM
Response to Reply #20
22. What's clear is..you don't know what you're talking about.
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burning rain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-18-09 01:52 AM
Response to Reply #22
23. What's more abundantly clear, Cha.....
Edited on Fri Dec-18-09 02:00 AM by burning rain
is that neither you nor ProSense have an explanation as to why John Kerry can both accept the modest inspections standards of NAFTA, and advocate an onerous regime for imported medicines. That, Cha, is prima facie evidence of catering to the predatory pharmaceutical industry--special preference for it. You would do well not to build up Kerry and other Democratic politicians as idols rather than pretty solid, often fallible, and much preferable to the opposition--which is what they are at best, and all they are.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-18-09 02:09 AM
Response to Reply #23
24. Nonsense.
Kerry has always advocated fixing NAFTA, and he opposed CAFTA.

You are simply trying to justify a silly theory that has no basis in fact.

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burning rain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-18-09 02:38 AM
Response to Reply #24
25. Oh... but he voted for NAFTA at the time.
Edited on Fri Dec-18-09 02:44 AM by burning rain
How very lamentable and at the same time convenient that it's never been possible to fix it--because he's tried so very fucking hard and secured so many roll-call votes for a fix! *cough* *gag* :puke: Now drag up some silly pro forma letter from Kerry supporting a NAFTA fix, ProSense: one that Senate Democrats never seriously acted upon. I'm hoping you're up to the challenge!
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Binka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-18-09 02:53 AM
Response to Reply #25
26. But But But The Pom Pom Girls Are Trying SOOOO Hard
Really hard.
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-18-09 09:23 AM
Response to Reply #25
33. Kerry did more than a roll call vote, he worked to get the change he
spoke of for the CAFTA bill by pushing an amendment that was praised by Sweeney of the AFL-CIO.



“Senator Kerry (D-Mass.) will introduce an important amendment to the administration’s draft implementing legislation that would address a key failing of agreement by giving workers’ rights the same priority as corporate rights. His amendment would go a long way toward fixing the inadequate workers’ rights provisions in this lopsided trade deal by making protections for core labor standards fully enforceable.
The Kerry amendment would ensure that all the CAFTA countries meet international core workers’ rights standards, a change to the agreement that has been a key demand of workers in both the U.S. and Central America.”

kerry.senate.gov/v3/headlines/CAFTA-AFL-CIO.doc

It lost 10/10 in the Republican dominated 109th Congress, but those provisions were included in more recent trade bills once the Democrats took over the Congress.
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burning rain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-19-09 04:18 AM
Response to Reply #33
47. The labor issue's interesting too.
How many of these pro-working folks measures have been passed, signed, and enacted into law?
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-18-09 01:10 PM
Response to Reply #23
36. You're the one talking "idol" and that's why it's crystal clear you
don't even have a clue.
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burning rain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-18-09 06:20 PM
Response to Reply #36
43. Easy solution....
link to where you've ever uttered a significant criticism of Kerry, thereby demonstrating you're not a Kerryolator.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-18-09 07:53 PM
Response to Reply #43
44. I don't have to prove anything to you.
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burning rain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-19-09 05:30 AM
Response to Reply #44
50. No, you certainly don't.
But I've read ahell of a lot of your posts and you appear to be a completely uncritical fan of Kerry and Obama, a kind of support I don't go in for with any politician, so I was wondering if you'd written something on a thread I didn't see.
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-18-09 05:53 PM
Response to Reply #23
42. Kerry has said often that he wants NAFTA and other agreements
renegotiated. The fact is that there were side agreements on NAFTA with Clinton that Clinton could never get passed.
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burning rain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-19-09 04:51 AM
Response to Reply #42
49. Well, these renegotiations have a way of not happening.
Upon entering the White House, Obama quietly abandoned his campaign pledge to renegotiate NAFTA. If Kerry can get something passed and signed into law, I will praise his leadership. But I doubt the White House wants it. As for Clinton, I'm no more a fan of his trade policies than his moderate conservative economic policies generally (though at leasthis economic moderate conservatism was of the sane budget-balancing kind, not the ultra-destructive Republican "supply side" tax cuts kind).
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-18-09 09:17 AM
Response to Reply #20
32. Kerry was one of the Senators who BACKED Nelson's amendment
that would have had poor seniors get the lower Medicaid rates rather than the higher Medicare rates. In addition, he was the one who when Grassley indictaed that the billions of dollars different would come from somewhere said point blank that it would come from the insurance and drug companies,

Maybe you can explain why Kennedy (and now Kirk) sided with Kerry.
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politicasista Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-18-09 03:50 PM
Response to Reply #32
39. **crickets** n/t
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politicasista Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-18-09 01:21 AM
Response to Reply #17
21. Chronic
Kerry/Obama haters never quit do they. :rofl:
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burning rain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-18-09 04:43 AM
Response to Reply #21
27. CHRONIC?!!!!
I wanna smoke some of that shit.
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-18-09 09:10 AM
Response to Reply #11
31. Kerry also voted against CAFTA and wanted NAFTA reworked
Edited on Fri Dec-18-09 09:13 AM by karynnj
Kerry's position on free trade is far more thoughtful than you suggest. After I went to the 2008 Take back America where I heard Sirota speak on trade, where he surprised me by praising one of Kerry's 2004 positions, I wrote this after looking back over Kerry's positions because having always been impressed with Kerry's NAFTA speech, which spoke of the problem being globalization, which was happening with or without the treaties. I never posted it as I realized that few would read something this long and not in agreement with their prior point of view. I doubt this will change your opinion of trade agreements, but I would hope that you would see that Kerry's ideas on this are not pure free trade, but that they see trade agreements as needed to protect workers in a globalized world.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Last week at Take Back America, I attended a session called “Debt and Debacle, America in the Global economy”. The panel included David Sirota, Naomi Klein, and Sarita Gupta. Each spoke of different aspects of the impact of globalization on the economy. Each of the panel spoke of the current economic situation from different angles. Although there were many thoughtful, interesting comments , that were interesting as they went far beyond election time rhetoric to speaking of the fundamental problems that we have faced and are facing as the economy has become a global one.

David Sirota spoke of the need to reform trade policies, mentioning a Brown/Dorgan bill that proposes that each trade bill be reviewed every 5 years to assess the domestic impact of the bill. He also spoke of the need to reform trade policy and mentioned that the word “tariff” has not been spoken in years, but argued that Senator Kerry’s 2004 economic plan in giving tax preferences to companies that kept production in the US was in essence similar to a tariff and that it would be a step forward to counter jobs being outsourced. It was nice to hear Sirota, who was a strong supporter of John Edwards this year, credit Senator Kerry with a plan that recognized that we had moved too far towards free trade. This led to looking back at Senator Kerry’s speeches and comments on trade since NAFTA was enacted.

Senator Kerry’s Senate speech in 1993 on NAFTA where he described the impacts of the global economy that existed before the trade treaties – speaking in ways that anticipate John Edwards’ two Americas and are consistent with many earlier Democrats, warned that there was a fundamental problem in the economy . Here are a few quotes from that speech where he argued that the global nature of the economy had already changed the economic landscape and a response to globalization was needed.

“Millions of Americans grew up feeling they had a kind of implied contract with their country, a contract for the American dream. If you applied yourself, got an education, went to work, and worked hard, then you had a reasonable shot at an income, a home, time for family, and a graceful retirement.
Today, those comfortable assumptions have been shattered by the realization that no job is safe, no future assured. And many Americans simply feel betrayed. To this day I'm not sure that official Washington fully comprehends what has happened to working America in the last 20 years, a period when the incomes of the majority declined in real terms. “
<snip>
“Thus, Mr. President, it is a treadmill world for millions of Americans. They work hard, they spend less time with their families, but their incomes don't go up. The more their incomes stagnate, the more they work. The more they work, the more they leave the kids alone, and the more they need child care. The more they need child care, the more they need to work. “
<snip>
“Of course, there is another story to be found in the numbers. Not everyone is suffering from a declining income. Those at the top of the income scale are seeing their incomes increase, and as a result income inequality in this Nation is growing dramatically. Overall, the 30 percent of our people at the top of the income scale have secured more and more, while the bottom 70 percent have been losing.”
<snip>
“Increasingly freer trade amongst nations means that competition comes from low-wage workers in developing countries, or from high-skilled, highly productive workers in the industrialized countries. The choice is a stark one: either a nation must secure more technology and become more productive or it must underbid all others for labor and other costs. Most countries understand that this is a choice they have to make.
I submit to you, Mr. President, that this is a choice which we are not making, and the consequence is that the choice is being made for us--toward low costs, leading to the unprecedented wave of downsizing underway in our economy. “

(from the Senate record on Thomas)

In 2004, Senator Kerry spoke of the need to review and fix the trade relationships we were in and spoke of why he did not support CAFTA which had been recently negotiated then. He stated:

“"Unfortunately, the free trade agreement that was signed today marks a disappointing and unnecessary step backwards in our nation's efforts to ensure that opening markets results in higher living standards on all sides and not a race to the bottom on worker rights and environmental protection.
"Therefore I will oppose the CAFTA as currently negotiated by President Bush. Instead of building on the progress of the Jordan agreement, CAFTA marks a reversal by not including adequate and fully enforceable protections for labor rights and environmental protections in the core of the agreement. “

http://www.crystalsugar.com/media/news.archives/kerry2.asp

In early 2005, at the hearing on the nomination of Robert Portman to be the U. S. Trade Representative, Senator Kerry spoke of earlier treaties and their negative impacts of workers in both the US and the other countries and reiterated that he would not support CAFTA as it was. Senator Kerry in his comments spoke of the fact that in addition to NAFTA having the known negative impact on US jobs, it had hurt poor Mexicans as well.


“Obviously, in the opposition to CAFTA in the Central American region is striking in and of itself. You’ve got small farmers, indigenous groups, environmentalists, bishops, parliamentarians. Many others have spoken out against it. And what they do is they cite the experience of Mexico as one of the reasons that they’re deeply concerned about it. In Mexico, real wages have fallen. Poverty has risen. More than a million small farmers lost their land. Many civil society groups and people of conscious believe that you’ve got an even, you know, worse enforcement mechanism and a worse starting point here. Tens of thousands of Central Americans have taken to the streets to protest this. They’re demanding a public referendum on the agreement. A recent Gallup poll found that 65 percent of Guatemalans think it’s going to harm rather than help their country. You’ve got a number of immigrant groups here in our country, the League of United Latin American Citizens, the Labor Council for Latin American Advancement, CARACEN, Salvadorian American National-Network, others have come out against it.
Why do you think such a broad and diverse range of Central Americans here and there are against it? And what does that say about this consensus that is so necessary to proceed forward and make it work?”

(From the Portman hearings for which there is no longer a working link I can find)

Senator Kerry fought for an amendment in the Senate Finance Committee that would have added some worker’s and environmental rights to CAFTA. The amendment was defeated in the Republican controlled committee on a 10 to 10 vote and there are no such provisions in the CAFTA treaty that Senator Kerry voted against. That amendment was praised by John Sweeney , head of the AFL/CIO as:



“Senator Kerry (D-Mass.) will introduce an important amendment to the administration’s draft implementing legislation that would address a key failing of agreement by giving workers’ rights the same priority as corporate rights. His amendment would go a long way toward fixing the inadequate workers’ rights provisions in this lopsided trade deal by making protections for core labor standards fully enforceable.
The Kerry amendment would ensure that all the CAFTA countries meet international core workers’ rights standards, a change to the agreement that has been a key demand of workers in both the U.S. and Central America.”

kerry.senate.gov/v3/headlines/CAFTA-AFL-CIO.doc

Last October, Senator Kerry gave a major speech on the economy at Faneuil Hall, the last of the Faneuil Hall speeches that would have defined a 2008 Kerry run for the Presidency. Here is what he said on trade and globalization:

“What was true in Roosevelt’s day is just as true today: we must promote the right of employees to collectively bargain for better wages and benefits — at home and abroad.
There’s nothing anti-business about being pro-union. And there’s nothing that contributes more to a socially responsible corporate community than workers who know they have a place at the table in key corporate decisions.
Under the Bush administration, the federal government has pursued the most strident anti-union policies in memory. I doubt they’ve appointed one judge who has voted for workers one time in their lifetime. Then how can they talk about spreading democracy to other countries and then tell workers that they don’t have the right to sign a card and elect a union to bargain for a better wage here in America?
Congress needs to finally enact basic labor law reforms like the Employee Free Choice Act, which preserves the right of workers to organize without intimidation. And, just as important, we have to promote workers’ rights abroad — because it’s right — and because it’s the only way to create a level playing field for U.S. exports.
American labor leaders understand this. Andy Stern, head of SEIU, has been to China six times in five years. As President, George Bush has only been there once — and I’m sure he didn’t once mention worker’s rights. James Hoffa, of the Teamsters union, sees China as a new frontline for the labor movement. He understands that, at its worst, the global economy is a race to the bottom that pulls the rug out from under American workers.
So we have to make it a race for the top — because globalization isn’t going to go away. We need to put our stamp on it and create a fair playing field — because empowering America’s workers means stepping up to bat for workers everywhere.
When Democrats took over Congress we said to this President — “no more trade deals unless you fight for workers’ rights.” We held his feet to the fire in a trade deal with Peru that does protect workers. But it’s not enough to have labor rights written on a piece of paper signed in the Rose Garden. We need countries to start enforcing them — and we need a President who actually wants them enforced.”

http://www.johnkerry.com/2007/10/1/faneuil-hall-speech-plan-for-a-21st-century-economic-strategy

Looking back over fifteen years of Senator Kerry’s comments on globalization and trade policy, it is amazing how accurate his definition of the problem was and how there are very consistent ideas with how to deal with the problems caused by globalization. One can also see that he avoids demonizing trade treaties, instead seeing them as a means to improve the conditions in the third world countries we are making the treaties with.

Historically, the industrial revolution led to a few employers having great power and many workers with none. This led to workers realizing that, taken as a group, the employer needed them as much as they needed their jobs. Forming unions allowed them to bargain more like equals. Globalization changed that equation, because the employer could opt for a far away labor pool. The tax incentives, that David Sirota mentioned as proposed by Senator Kerry in 2004, to influence employers to keep jobs in the United States improve the chances that some jobs that would be outsourced could stay in the US because the economic advantage from out sourcing would be decreased. The workers’ provisions in the treaties could also act to keep more jobs in the US because they raise the lower labor costs in the third world country – again leading to retaining those where the advantage was small. In addition they raise the quality of live in the third world country.

Inclusion of real workers’ protections could turn what Senator Kerry referred to in 1993 as a race to the bottom to the race to top mentioned in his Faneuil Hall speech. Following Senator Kerry’s advise that we need to stand up for workers everywhere leads to a better world both here and in third world countries. Doing so would be consistent with the true values of this country. It also has broader ramifications, as Pope Paul VI said "If you want peace, work for justice."
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burning rain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-19-09 02:19 AM
Response to Reply #31
45. I appreciate the detailed reply....
Edited on Sat Dec-19-09 02:21 AM by burning rain
but you don't explain how Kerry's more-or-less overall pro-free trade position--certainly in the sense of wanting openness to foreign-made goods--squares with a protectionist position on drug reimportation--keeping out goods from abroad.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-18-09 12:06 AM
Response to Original message
5. Oh dear, and we have
the hyperbolic melodramatists on here lashing out at Pres Obama and wanting his head on their personal plate.

Yeah, buddy..they have a Score to settle with him.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-18-09 12:43 AM
Response to Reply #5
18. "hyperbolic melodramatists "
A bunch of people who move the goal post every time they're proven wrong.

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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-18-09 12:46 AM
Response to Reply #18
19. Like debating
liquid mercury.
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slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-18-09 12:13 AM
Response to Original message
7. Reportedly the deal included not negotiating for Medicare drug prices...
Could we save another 220 billion in addition to the 80 billion using VA prices...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=8667526&mesg_id=8667647

"...Allow Medicare to negotiate for cheaper drug prices. The 2003 Medicare Prescription Drug
Improvement and Modernization Act bans the government from negotiating down the prices of
prescription drugs, even though the Department of Veterans Affairs’ negotiation of prescription drug
prices with drug companies has garnered significant savings for taxpayers.32 Barack Obama and Joe
Biden will repeal the ban on direct negotiation with drug companies and use the resulting savings, which
could be as high as $30 billion,33 to further invest in improving health care coverage and quality..."


BARACK OBAMA AND JOE BIDEN’S PLAN TO LOWER HEALTH CARE COSTS
AND ENSURE AFFORDABLE, ACCESSIBLE HEALTH COVERAGE FOR ALL

page 5
http://www.barackobama.com/pdf/issues/HealthCareFullPlan.pdf


Tonight's thread on this subject

Senator Tom Harkin explains why 30 Democratic Senators voted against drug importation amendment
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=433&topic_id=70049&mesg_id=70049

"HARKIN: Well, I think, Ed, that some of the reasons, I don‘t say people voted this way—because there was some talk last night on the floor that if we voted for Dorgan, if Dorgan carried, it would kill the bill because the pharmaceutical companies would walk away from their agreement with the president that they were going to put in $80 billion over the next 10 years to help close a little bit of that doughnut hole. Quite frankly, Ed, between you and me, I don‘t buy that argument.

SCHULTZ: OK. So, you‘re telling us tonight that the deal that the White House cut with big pharma, Dorgan‘s amendment, flat-out got in the way of that?

HARKIN: Well, that‘s what people were saying last night. I don‘t know that for a fact.

But I will say this—the $80 billion that the pharmaceutical companies agreed to put up with this agreement represents less than two percent—less than two percent of their earnings over the next 10 years. That‘s nothing to them. Nothing at all to them.

SCHULTZ: Yes. Well...

HARKIN: They got a sweetheart deal on that one, I‘ll tell you."











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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-18-09 04:52 AM
Response to Original message
28. Then and now.
I love the contrast with your old post in 2007 and now. Beautiful. (I assume you don't see it, though.)
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soapystern Donating Member (12 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-18-09 05:43 AM
Response to Original message
29. no
we need to stop selling out
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beachmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-18-09 08:45 AM
Response to Original message
30. I think it has to do with the Pharma deal. If that amendment passed, hcr would be dead.
Edited on Fri Dec-18-09 08:47 AM by beachmom
It really is that simple. The Senate is a lot like international diplomacy. You get the best deal you can to reach the ultimate goal. I don't see why this measure can't be brought up again down the line. Then it might have a chance in passing. But had this amendment been put into hcr, Pharma would have fought the bill, and they are much more powerful and have far more $$ and lobbyists than the health care industry. I guess I am a pragmatist. This idea, while good, wasn't worth torpedoing the entire bill.

Edit: Over the years I have had heated discussions with my parents about the Medicare prescription drug program. I felt it was a deficit producing corrupt bill, because Medicare can't negotiate drug prices. But my parents response was the program has helped them. They like it. And that is how it will be with health care reform. People will complain what is wrong with it, but many more people are ultimately going to like it. And the prescription program has that awful donut in it. Yet it has helped many, many older Americans.
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Mass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-18-09 09:28 AM
Response to Original message
34. Kerry did not vote against the Dorgan amendment in 2007. There was NO vote on this amendment.
Edited on Fri Dec-18-09 09:37 AM by Mass
They voted for cloture on the FDA bill, which prevented the Dorgan amendment to be voted upon.

http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=110&session=1&vote=00152

If anything they voted for cloture for the Dorgan amendment.

http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=110&session=1&vote=00150

This makes your argument totally wrong. In fact, in the Times article, Kennedy makes it clear that it was MORE important to pass the FDA bill than the Dorgan amendment, so yes, you can say he accepted Pharma's pressure. You can discuss whether it was the right thing to do because the FDA bill was badly needed, but your proof do not support your argument.

And yes, it is clear here that my two senators voted for the interests of Pharma, because they were concerned about what Pharma would do (as in spending tons of money on adds against HCR).

The Lautenberg amendment is acceptable to Pharma because it makes reimportation nearly impossible because too complex and costly.

You may have a good argument on whether or not passing HCR justifies voting against Dorgan, but dont try to make this about safety. It is insulting to all, including Kerry.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-18-09 04:10 PM
Response to Reply #34
41. No it doesn't they did not support the Dorgan amendment for that reason
"You may have a good argument on whether or not passing HCR justifies voting against Dorgan, but dont try to make this about safety."

That argument is completely bogus. As the 2007 vote demonstrates. I remember the frenzy around that time, with everyone accusing Kerry and Kennedy of selling out to PharMa. Well, the deal hasn't been around since them. So the argument is complete bullshit.



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Freddie Stubbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-18-09 10:37 AM
Response to Original message
35. I'm sure that it had nothing to do with the pharmacutical comapanies which operate in MA
Edited on Fri Dec-18-09 11:01 AM by Freddie Stubbs
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mcablue Donating Member (625 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-18-09 02:26 PM
Response to Original message
38. What opponents of the Dorgan amendment won't tell you
The legislation contains strong safeguards to prohibit counterfeit drugs from entering the system or other practices that would put the consumer at risk, and applies only to FDA-approved prescription drugs produced in FDA-approved plants from countries with comparable safety standards. http://dorgan.senate.gov/newsroom/record.cfm?id=320552

They gave industry-friendly Senators an excuse to kill the amendment. all the FDA has to do is disapprove of a drug if it doesn't want it on the market.

Let's speak clearly. The White House and industry-friendly congressmen do not want to hurt the pockets Big-Health.
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uponit7771 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-18-09 03:53 PM
Response to Original message
40. They have to get the FDA involved in the delivery chain, that's it then imports can be done
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dave29 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-19-09 04:22 AM
Response to Original message
48. Guess what, some of these medicines aren't safe to begin with.
Edited on Sat Dec-19-09 04:23 AM by dave29
Just thought I'd point that out. Most people forget this even though they are barraged with commercials for meds that have side effects far worse than the condition they are supposed to treat.
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