Was the "lesser of two evils" sentiment this prevalent before Clinton's second term?

[great white snark]

I mean, did you vote for President Clinton because he sucked less than Dole?

[jefferson_dem]

1. DU didn't exist until 2001.

Nonetheless, there have always been in-party malcontents, including after Clinton's first term.

[great white snark]

2. Whoops. I'll leave this up to see the well deserved ridicule.

:hide:

[polichick]

6. I don't see where you mentioned this site.

[jefferson_dem]

11. The OP did, prior to editing.

Doesn't matter though. It's all good. :hi:

[great white snark]

15. Yes, crap, sorry to leave you hanging jefferson_dem.

Blame it on the lack of coffee.

[jefferson_dem]

22. Hey, no probs.

:hi:

[polichick]

7. "In-party malcontents" - that's what we're calling people who don't like...

Republican policies, even when pushed by politicians with a D behind their name?

[jefferson_dem]

9. Nah...

That's what I'm calling "in-party malcontents." My point is that they have always been around...and always will be.

The OP asks about Clinton. Obviously, if this board was around in 1995, we would have seen wailing, screaming, and gnashing of teeth about his "welfare reform" legislation ... that would have made this latest outburst pale in comparison.

[polichick]

43. Looking back, it was those who "wailed, screamed and gnashed teeth"...

...who saw how many Republican initiatives Clinton made possible - in retrospect, they (we) were dead on.

Same is true now - and to characterize whistle blowers the way you are is disgusting.

[awoke_in_2003]

62. I preferred "Professional Leftists"...

:rofl:

[DURHAM D]

3. No

We didn't like some of his positions but at least he respected us (everyone) enough to explain them to us. He didn't constantly treat us like we were children or something to merely be endured. He actually like to engage.

[great white snark]

4. He did give good speeches.

Intelligent speaker

[polichick]

5. It was a bit less because people were just beginning to figure out...

that DLC = Republican.

Now many of us realize that DLC = New Dem = Republican.

[great white snark]

8. True.

I think I recall the DLC being well-respected at some point.

[Youth Uprising]

10. I wasn't politically aware back then but if DU had been around

back then I bet the sentiment would have been about the same. Those of us who are critical of Obama now would have been just as critical of Mr. Clinton and those who tow the party line would have done so back then, too.

[PragmaticLiberal]

12. Absolutely not,

In fact, I don't remember anyone saying that Clinton was the lesser of two evils.

Maybe it was said, but I sure didn't hear it.


:shrug:

[laugle]

48. Maybe

because Clinton was a better president!

[Warren Stupidity]

13. There was exactly one election since 1972 where the choice

was not between two duopolistic corporatist asshats.

[great white snark]

14. And Carter is considered the worst President ever by many people.

That speaks volumes.

[saras]

32. Yes, by corporatists. That DOES speak volumes.

[great white snark]

34. At least those people can't touch his record as a statesman.

What an ambassador for our party and for decency in general he and his wife have been.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

16. Bill Clinton gets a pass at DU, don't you know? He was responsible for a lot of this mess

that we are in now with his deregulation bullshit! To his credit, he acknowledged that he deregulated too much, but the damage has been done.

And still, DUers worship this man, even though he got caught "in bed" with Paul Ryan and is the "adopted son" of Pappy and Babs Bush. It's disgusting!

[great white snark]

17. My first vote ever was cast for President Clinton. Probably the same for many here.

You never want to think badly of your first love.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

23. I like what you have to say in your siggie. So true. If we really want more progressive solutions,

we can't stay home sulking that we didn't get what we wanted when we wanted it. We MUST be proactive and work for progressive candidates. Otherwise, we cannot complain if we get far less.

[CrazyBob]

36. He is also responsible...

in a large part for some of the corrupt thinking found on this board.

That sort of thinking worked for him but crushed our 40 year majority in the congress. And if we don't snap out of it, a bunch of right wing wacko extremists will continue to be on a par with us nationally. Its insane.

People agree with us on the issues. Why ever give an inch???

[yardwork]

18. I don't recall Clinton's chief of staff ever calling me a "fucking retard"

or saying that all liberals "ought to be drug tested."

[great white snark]

20. He called an idea "fucking retarded", not liberals.

Clinton's first Chief of Staff was a NAFTA architect.

[yardwork]

28. Do you have the exact quote?

[johnaries]

65. I do.

It was during a meeting with Liberal Activists over some conservative Dems who didn't support the ACA. Some of the activists suggested that they purchase TV ads going after those Dems. Rahm replied "That's fucking retarded."

So, he was calling the idea of Dems going after Dems "fucking retarded" - NOT Liberals.

[yardwork]

67. What about the drug testing?

[paulk]

19. I voted for Clinton 2nd term

because I was experiencing, by far, the best economy of my life.

[tularetom]

21. Actually no, because he didn't really show his republican colors in his first term

In 1996, Clinton looked good to most people because newt gingrich had just pulled his shut down the government crap which really bit the republicans in the ass.

After his reelection Clinton moved sharply to the right. It was then that he pushed through the media consolidation, welfare reform, and banking deregulation legislation that made him the best republican president of our times.

[vaberella]

24. I think the lesser of two evils was around when it became a TWO Party system.

It would include Clinton, Reagan, Nixon, and anyone other President.

[ProSense]

25. Democratic presidents and the left

Democratic presidents and the left

By Ezra Klein

Two readers e-mailed me in the past 24 hours with quotes showing the complicated relationship past Democratic presidents -- both real and fictional -- have had with the left. First up is a quote from Taylor Branch's book, "The Clinton Tapes," which recounts a contentious interview President Clinton sat for with Rolling Stone:

(Clinton) said Rolling Stone's founder, Jan Wenner, had come to the White House with author William Greider, a former Washington Post editor whose books included a populist critique of the Federal Reserve banking system. They had agreed not to discuss NAFTA because of Greider's implacable opposition, and the president said all went fine until Greidier brandished a photograph of a destitute-looking American to mount a sudden, dramatic attack.... Greider confronted him saying here is one of the countless poor people who looked to you for leadership -- you were their last hope. Now they feel utterly disillusioned and abandoned. Can you look into this face and name one thing you have done to help? Or one principle you won't compromise ? One cause you will uphold? One belief you would die for?

The president said he had replied in kind. "I kind of went off on him," the president recalled. He told Greider that he had done things already that no other president would do. He had raised taxes on the rich and lowered them for the poor. He had introduce the AmeriCorps service program, which Rolling Stone had campaigned for, and established it into law. He was taking on the gun lobby and the tobacco lobby. He had proposed fair treatment for gay soldiers. He was fighting for national health care, and more, but liberals paid very little attention to these things because they were bitchy and cynical about politics. They resented Clinton for respecting the votes of conservatives or the opinions of moderates. They wanted him to behave like a dictator because they didn't really care about results in the world.... He said he had pointed at Greider to tell him the problem is you, Bill Greider. You are a faulty citizen. You don't mobilize or persuade, because you only worry about being doctrinaire and proud. You are betraying your own principles with self-righteousness.

Clinton took a breath. "I did everything but fart in his face," he concluded.

At least President Obama didn't resort to farting. The next example comes from a fictional television character, not a president, but it certainly resonates with left's current feelings about Obama:

more

Obama is experiencing the Internet effect.

[great white snark]

29. Thank you for the perspective.

Clinton felt the wrath in printed form.

[Number23]

63. I need to smoke a cigarette after that

He told Greider that he had done things already that no other president would do. He had raised taxes on the rich and lowered them for the poor. He had introduce the AmeriCorps service program, which Rolling Stone had campaigned for, and established it into law. He was taking on the gun lobby and the tobacco lobby. He had proposed fair treatment for gay soldiers. He was fighting for national health care, and more, but liberals paid very little attention to these things because they were bitchy and cynical about politics. They resented Clinton for respecting the votes of conservatives or the opinions of moderates. They wanted him to behave like a dictator because they didn't really care about results in the world....

That's just about the best thing I've read on DU all week.

And be DAMNED if Obama isn't experiencing the same shit with a healthy dose of Racial Politics thrown in for extra flavor.

[Beacool]

26. Nope, he was the first president I voted for and did so enthusiastically.

He tried to do good (I remember the beating he took when one of his first actions in office was to try to eliminate the ban on gays in the military) and was stymied by the right and by some in his own party. But what I liked most about him was that Hillary was part of the deal. In my lifetime there hadn't been another first lady like her. A first lady with a Yale law degree, who had a brilliant mind and a will of steel. Who also knew how to handle the Republicans and had more guts than most of the weasels who constantly attacked her and her husband.

I would still vote for Bill, flaws and all.

:-)


BTW, ask the average American on the street who would they like to see in office right now and they start waxing poetic over the 90s.

[great white snark]

30. Me too.

My fondest memory is his and our relationship with Ireland. I watched him address a huge crowd there and I remember being so proud of our President. On St. Patrick's Day I opened the paper and there was a full page ad in the Tribune that read "Irish eyes are smiling today. Thank you President Clinton. My eyes welled up.

[laugle]

49. Either

of the Clintons' would be elected now.....................uh..oh...watch
them swarm.............LOL.......

Utter the name Clinton, and the bees start buzzing...............LOL

Unfortunately, neither are running....

[Bluenorthwest]

27. The original always fares better than the

sequel. Once you have seen an act once, the surprise element is gone, and the marks are harder to fool.

[philly_bob]

31. Not at all. He was our guy and they'd been beating up on him.

It was Rally round the flawed leader!

[blkmusclmachine]

33. Never liked the Clintons. Still don't.

He's a big DLC'er/Third Way, Blanche Lincoln lover. Gave us DADT, DOMA, NAFTA, and a bunch of deregulation (& Media consolidation) that's really kicking our ass right now. Then there's Hillary. She beat a path to that Fundy freak-show religious Cult called "The Family" the moment she got to DC, and schmoozes with "Pastor" Doug Coe to this very day.

[polmaven]

38. "gave us " DADT & DOMA...

Yeah, 'cause before he was president, our GLBT service members were allowed to serve openly. And every one knows there was no restriction on equal marriages, and no discussion whatsoever about any Constitutional Amendments to define marriage as being between one man and one woman....

Oh, wait......That isn't right???

Both DADT and DOMA were compromises to stop the above mentioned occurrences. In the first half of the 1990s this country would never have allowed open military service, and I have no doubt whatsoever that a Constitutional amendment would have passed regarding marriage equality.

Is that what you would have preferred occur?

[Beacool]

59. Don't waste your breath.

It's always the same mantra around here: the Clintons are evil.

They don't seem to have a sense of history and perspective. The reality of the 90s was not the same as it is now. People have progressed regarding gay rights, be it gays serving in the military or gay marriage. It was a completely different scenario in the early 90s.

:(

[bemildred]

35. No. Things were a lot different before the Bush coup. nt

[woolldog]

37. Things changed for Clinton after the government shutdown

He showed he had some backbone and was willing to fight Republicans. And politically it benefited him tremendously

Still waiting for that moment with Obama...

[susanr516]

54. I gained a lot of respect for Clinton after the shutdown, too,

although he was always way too conservative for me. And I still haven't forgiven him for NAFTA and welfare "reform." Had DU been around back then, I probably would have been TS'd for screaming about NAFTA.

[Ter]

39. I voted for Dole

I was a young punk puke then. :)

[Beacool]

60. Bad boy!!!!

:spank:



:7

[uponit7771]

40. Even if it was it's called maturity in decision making knowing everything isnt goin to be clear cut

[Palmer Eldritch]

41. Are you advocating a 3rd Party?

[great white snark]

50. Not at all.

I want to know if President Clinton took as much of a beating from his own party as President Obama is taking now.

[zalinda]

42. Things were different in this country

During his tenure it was boom time economy. It seemed like money was gushing from every where. Unfortunately, he has tried to take credit for it, and he had nothing to do with it. It was pure luck and timing. (Oh, and I voted for him and defended him, even during the Monica thing. Oh, and I even defended Nafta, when arguing with my uncle, who turned out to be right.) If it had happened during Bush Jr's years, he would have gotten a pass.

Most people aren't concerned about politics, unless it reaches their kitchen table. That's the way it is, and it has always been that way. Kitchen table politics has always been about money to feed your family, money for bills and money for keeping a roof over your head. Most people are stressed out enough with just trying to survive, that trying to understand world politics is the last thing on their minds.

When Obama came into office, most people were just glad that Bush left. They foolishly thought that things would get better for them, that has not been the case. Kitchen table politics will determine the next election. If any one comes from the repub side that looks like they are sane, professional and can give a good speech, all bets are off that Obama will be re-elected.

zalinda

[Blasphemer]

64. Exactly.... life was good

Clinton raised taxes and the country didn't implode - everything was chugging along nicely. People could afford to be less politically strident or apolitical. Clinton's presidency can be fairly scrutinized but I will give him this - I don't think that he ever foresaw what Bush & the GOP agenda would do to the country. I don't think he saw their extremism. He knew they wanted to annihilate him politically but I don't think he realized that they were perfectly willing to annihilate the country in order to achieve their goals. Perhaps if he knew what was coming, he would have made some different choices.

[Hawkowl]

44. Yes.

I was not happy with his pushing through NAFTA and his DLC tendencies. I voted for the lesser of two evils for his re-election and was horrified at his Telecommunications Act, his signing of the Graham-Leach-Biley Act, and his atrocious Welfare Reform, and his re-appointment of Alan Greenspan!

This cemented Clinton's reputation as the best Republican president since Teddy Roosevelt. Appalling.

[lunatica]

45. Another black/white view of the world thread. nt

[great white snark]

51. It's a simple question not meant to explore all the voting possibilities.

Thanks for your response.

[MH1]

46. My two votes for Clinton were because he sucked less than the alternative.

I thought Gore would run in 92 and was expecting to support him. I was disappointed to see that Clinton was a better campaigner. Then Gore didn't run anyway but I harbored no illusions about Clinton. Actually in some ways Clinton turned out to be better than I expected, and I was sure glad we didn't get the alternative.

[MH1]

47. I want to add, I ** NEVER ** expect to vote for a perfect candidate, they will all suck in some way

Guaranteed.

Some will turn out to suck less once in office, some will suck more than expected, but either way it is very unlikely, at least in today's political climate, that a republican will be elected whose actual behavior will suck less than the Democrat's actual behavior. (e.g. President Palin?? {shudder} )

So I will keep voting for Democrats even when they suck worse than I could have imagined they would.

[great white snark]

52. I'm with ya.

The degree of suckiness on the Republican side is immeasurable so I too will be voting for Democrats.

[jcboon]

53. Uh, yeah. .

I voted FOR John Kerry because he is a genuine liberal.
Bill Clinton, bless his heart, was always republican lite.

[Cereal Kyller]

55. To be honest, I've never really liked Bill Clinton as a PERSON.

Remember what they used to ask about Nixon? "Would you buy a used car from this man?" Well that's the way I feel about WJC. It was "lo2e" for me both in 92 and 96.

[rury]

56. Clinton is white...

....therefore he is allowed to suck a little and get away with it.
:mad:

[rufus dog]

57. I didn't vote for Clinton the second time

Refused to vote for him because he was a weak assed sell out!

Now I live in CA so there was no need to worry about my vote but I have learned from my mistake. Bitching about a Democrat isn't going to accomplish a thing. I see two choices, supporting the one we have or going full scale balistic and become part of a revolution. Anything in between plays right into the Republicans plan.

[LatteLibertine]

58. I believe most people, Democrat or Republican,

often vote against someone more so than for another. Last time I did vote >for< President Obama. This time I will be voting more against the Republican.

IMO there should be a no confidence option on the ballot. If that is more than either candidate they should be forced to provide us with new options. Even if the no confidence option did nothing it would be interesting to have to see how many voters don't support either candidate.

The overwhelming majority of our "representatives" in D.C. are former millionaire lawyers who go on to become lobbyists for sectors they often "regulated" while in office. Every three out of four lobbyists in the oil and gas industry, played a part regulating that industry in government before they made the career move. Moving from Government official to lobbyist can often mean near doubling your pay.

Right now, our system is both rigged and broken.

[Bluerthanblue]

61. the second time I voted for him with more of this kind of thinking

but I'd have never considered NOT voting Dem, nor would I have supported any kind of primary challenger.

[johnaries]

66. Yes. It's been this prevalent as far back as I can remember.

and I'm 54.

BTW, Clinton's approval dipped as low as 37% during his first term.