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HCR: The third rail of American politics-poison to all that try to touch it.

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Politics_Guy25 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-18-09 01:27 AM
Original message
HCR: The third rail of American politics-poison to all that try to touch it.
Edited on Fri Dec-18-09 01:33 AM by Politics_Guy25
I'm just looking at what HCR did to President Clinton and what it has done to President Obama. Both presidents saw gigantic approcal rating drops when they dared to tackle the issue. For President Clinton, it sent his approval ratings down to 35% by mid 1994 or so, created a republican revolution that lost him his huge majorities in Congress and actually created significant republican majorities. He lost a majority of the state governorships as well in 1994. In essence, HCR killed the Clinton presidency and it was only Newt Gingrich and his extremely radical agenda that repulsed the American people so much that Clinton was resurrected. Being a petulant child crying about not getting a seat on AF1 and shutting the government down didn't help either. It exposed Gingrich for the radical he was and he was destroyed. President Clinton arose like a phoenix from the ashes. HOWEVER, the damage of attempting to tackle HCR was done. He lost congress for the rest of his presidency.

Now fast forward to 2009. President Obama on January 23, 2009 had the 3rd highest approval ratings ever of all presidents in their initial gallup poll rating at 68%. Now he's below 50% in most major polls. Before he tackled HCR, his approval ratings were soaring. He had cowered the GOP with his nomination of Justice Sotomayor, A MASTER STROKE, that reached out to the Hispanics and locked them in. The GOP was on the run. We had solid leads in the congressional ballot as well.

Now, the GOP has a 7% congressional lead, President Obama is under 50%, and the democratic party is engaged in bitter interparty warfare over the elements of the bill.

People close to President Obama, according to articles that I've read, pleaded with him. They said "Don't tackle HCR. It's a minefield. It's disastrous. DON'T DO IT. At least not in year 1."

He didn't listen. Now our base is enraged, the republicans are energized, and his presidency AND our congressional majorities are hanging in the balance.

He should have tackled the economy and nothing but the economy the first year. Once he had shown demonstrable progress on the economy and a vastly reduced unemployment rate, THEN he could have used the political capital that he had gained from putting America back to work to pass a STRONG HCR bill. YES, I know that sounds like it could come from Cantor's mouth. But have you ever considered that Cantor was right but for the wrong reasons. Cantor said it for evil purposes but a wise white house sage could have said exactly the same thing. All he had to do was wait 2 years. Build up his gravitas. Build up accomplishments outside of the HCR sphere like in the economy and in foreign policy. His approval rating would have stayed high and I bet you that he'd have stood a good chance of GAINING seats in 2010. Then with a 61-62 seat senate and a continued strong house majority, THEN he could have tackled HCR.

He should have waited, built up his strength and then pounced.

Now, all is well if he is willing to be a one-term president over this bill. But really is this bill worth being a 1-termer over? Not at all. It's certainly not worth seeing a Sarah Palin Presidency over. It's also not fair to send our democratic comrades in the congress to their electoral slaughter in 2010 over this.

This has been epically FUBAR. I guess it's not a surprise. Nixon tried it, Truman tried it, Clinton tried it. All were defeated. One would have thought that President Obama would have learned the lesson of the Clinton HCR catastrophe. Instead, here we are again. Another HCR catastrophe. Not to mention that when you tackle the insurance oligarchy, the pharma oligharcy, Fox News, and other entrenched interests, you'd have better be prepared for an epic war, a struggle between good and evil really. They weren't.

I'm disappointed in the sales job for this. It was beyond messed. Just to close, I bet ya if he had other huge accomplishments under his belt when he tried to accomplish this, that he would have succeeded.

This is the first time that the Obama team has made a key strategic blunder. Now, we await our fate.

P.S.: Go ahead flame away, unrec, accuse me of being Eric Cantor himself. All I am doing is looking at the messed up situation that we find ourselves in and saying that there was another way.



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Pirate Smile Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-18-09 01:31 AM
Original message
Congress was not going to touch Health Care Reform during an election year. It would be even more
toxic.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-18-09 01:31 AM
Response to Original message
1.  Guess what? It's not over yet.
And, much too soon to be writing obits.
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leftstreet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-18-09 01:32 AM
Response to Original message
2. There's one difference today. We're all fucking broke
Real wages have stagnated for decades.

We rely on credit for groceries.

The post WWII 'American Dream' was unsustainable and the working class is slipping fast.

Single payer is inevitable
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shraby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-18-09 01:34 AM
Response to Original message
3. Despite all the hue and cry, gnashing of teeth and rending
of garments, the dammm bill isn't finished yet in the Senate. Once it is, it still has to be reconciled with the House bill then the finished product is ready to be discussed and voted on. That's the time to get agressive with it. Myself, I'm going to sit here in out of the icy cold and bide my time while most others are making a lot of noise and wait for the rubber to meet the road and then see where we sit and make noise if it's not what it should be.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-18-09 01:34 AM
Response to Original message
4. I was told he was a coward who doesn't do the "controversial"......
Personally, I think he believes we need it....and he will make sure that it is improved on before he's out of there. As opposed to leaving and letting Pres. Palin gut it all in 2012!
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CaliforniaPeggy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-18-09 01:34 AM
Response to Original message
5. I won't flame you.
And yes, there was another way.

He could have used his bully pulpit to push the kind of reform that the American public wants: Single payer.

Or, he could have pushed for a strong public option, and not backed down, nor let that wimp Reid back down either.

But oh no.

And why?

I now firmly believe he has been bought and sold by the insurance industry. He (I believe) never truly cared about us.

So, tell me I'm wrong.

Maybe I am. I am not convinced...

What I am is bitter, and feeling betrayed.





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shraby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-18-09 01:41 AM
Response to Reply #5
8. As much trouble as the Republicans are making for the bill
Edited on Fri Dec-18-09 01:42 AM by shraby
now even without Obama laying down the law on what he wants from the bill, just exactly what do you think they'd do if they knew what he wanted? How better to keep them off balance by changing stuff about every other day? I'm waiting for them to get the thing off the Senate floor and begin to merge the House and Senate bills..I figure the House will have a lot of things to add to it and the Senate part will lose a bit, and Stupak will be toast.
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Politics_Guy25 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-18-09 01:43 AM
Response to Reply #5
9. President Obama hasn't betrayed us
Edited on Fri Dec-18-09 01:44 AM by Politics_Guy25
It's just the issue is incredibly toxic. You have to be like a god to win the war on this one. I think what you need is for things to get so bad that rather than the teabaggers sending 20,000 to Washington to protest HCR, you have 70-100,000 people marching on Washington demanding real HCR now. Real reform will have to come from the ground up I bet.

Now, that said, this could still be salvaged but its at a brutal cost, a brutal cost. I haven't entirely given up.

I guess my main point is that politically speaking, I would have stayed the heck away from this if I were him, at least until I knew I could win.
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Cant trust em Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-18-09 02:19 AM
Response to Reply #5
12. dupe
Edited on Fri Dec-18-09 02:20 AM by Cant trust em
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bluestateguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-18-09 01:36 AM
Response to Original message
6. Health care is the economy
Medical bills are far away the leading cause of bankruptcies. When people file bankruptcies creditors do not get paid (much) and it has a ripple effect throughout.

There will be a bill on his desk next month; he has already come farther than any previous president.
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XemaSab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-18-09 01:37 AM
Response to Original message
7. I suspect that it's poison
because the right hates social welfare programs and the left has been unmotivated by the proposals put forth thus far. :shrug:
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Politics_Guy25 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-18-09 01:46 AM
Response to Reply #7
10. Conference could create an awesome bill-that is true-n/t
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Cant trust em Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-18-09 02:16 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. I think that has been a lot of the strategy all along, but I doubt that we'll get a great bill.
The house bill isn't spectacular and the Senate bill is awful. If we merge the best parts of both, we'll get something satisfactory. However, I'd suspect that we'll get a mixed bag of both.

Call me a pessimist.
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Cant trust em Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-18-09 02:20 AM
Response to Original message
13. Presidents typically lose seats in the midterms after their election.
They probably thought that since his ratings were sky high that they should strike while the iron is hot.
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