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The REAL reason we will never leave Afghanistan

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Lerkfish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-18-09 08:06 AM
Original message
The REAL reason we will never leave Afghanistan
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Smarmie Doofus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-18-09 08:11 AM
Response to Original message
1. Sometimes a picture is worth......
.... a thousand NPR/PBS interviews with "counter-insurgency" experts and the like.
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the other one Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-18-09 08:24 AM
Response to Original message
2. How about control of the heroin trade?
How about the US military values the real estate, and you can come up with any reason you like.
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NJmaverick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-18-09 08:38 AM
Response to Original message
3. here
:tinfoilhat:
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Laelth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-18-09 09:10 AM
Response to Original message
4. Spot on. n/t
:dem:

-Laelth
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snagglepuss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-18-09 09:19 AM
Response to Original message
5. Odd how a clear image of the pipeline is never seen, in M$M.
I supposed I shouldn't be surprised since it's never even discussed.
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AzDar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-18-09 09:55 AM
Response to Original message
6. K & R
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Imagevision Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-19-09 08:18 AM
Response to Reply #6
23. Oil Pipelines would explode every 8-10 days in Iraq, then the Pentagon stopped the reporting
Afgan all that dope and the pipeline constructed AFTER the US. attacks. (by the way)
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tekisui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-18-09 10:15 AM
Response to Original message
7. I'd like to see that map overlayed with US/NATO bases.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-18-09 11:02 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
tekisui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-18-09 12:05 PM
Response to Reply #9
14. I knew the info would be along.
;-)

That Helmud province is a hard one to secure. It is portrayed as the 'final battle' so to speak. The last section to get secured in Afghanistan.

Interestingly, this week saber-rattling has been targeted at Quetta. Next city on the road-map.
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dixiegrrrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-18-09 06:56 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. Conveniently, the Taliban are thick in that area.
And of course are not happy we want to control their resources.
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tekisui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-19-09 11:57 AM
Response to Reply #16
26. Why did your post get yanked?
The post that should the troop location was pulled. Why?
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dixiegrrrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-19-09 02:19 PM
Response to Reply #26
27. I must have included something not allowed on DU.
Have no clue.
Usually if we make a mistake, there is a pm from the mods to let us know why.
Since I don't know why, it won't help me avoid the mistake in future, esp. since I now cannot remember what I posted!
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Ikonoklast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-19-09 02:28 PM
Response to Reply #16
28. They have zero resources in that area.
The gas for that pipeline will all come out of the 'Stans, and will mostly benefit India and Pakistan. It only needs to go through Afghanistan.


The Taliban wants a cut of the dough, bigger than what was previously negotiated with them, pre-war. A soon as that happens, they will co-operate.

The Taliban wants the money, period. If we are going to fuck with the heroin trade, they want another source of income.
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styersc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-18-09 10:43 AM
Response to Original message
8. But Obama Promised!!!!!
ROFL.

Yeah, I know. Hilarious!
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dixiegrrrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-18-09 11:09 AM
Response to Original message
10. Also there is this info:
1. Energy Information Administration, US Department of the Environment at: http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/cabs/caspgrph.html#TAB1

-The oil reserves of the U.S. are estimated at a meager 22 billion barrels. The broader region of the Middle East and the Caspian Sea Basin have oil reserves which are more than thirty times those of the U.S, representing more than 70% of the World's total reserves. Control of this region by the Anglo-American oil giants means control over at least three quarters of the World's supply of oil and natural gas. -It would also mean control over the Westbound, Eastbound and South bound oil and gas pipeline routes out of the region. - The U.S is responsible for 5850 million metric tons of greenhouse emissions, representing 20 percent of the World total.
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dixiegrrrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-18-09 11:17 AM
Response to Original message
11. and this:
The Israeli newspaper Ma’ariv notes: “If one looks at the map of the big American bases created , one is struck by the fact that they are completely identical to the route of the projected oil pipeline to the Indian Ocean.”

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Mira Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-18-09 11:18 AM
Response to Original message
12. Recommended - also I recommend
the links and info posted by Dixiegrrrrl - very valuable information.
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ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-18-09 11:19 AM
Response to Original message
13. If we stop providing the CANNON FODDER for the MIC, we won't have to stay there.
It's time to organize and support our youth to NOT kill and die for CORPORATE WAR. :thumbsup:
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madamesilverspurs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-18-09 12:48 PM
Response to Original message
15. Plus the billions of barrels
beneath the ice that's melting due to the "fictitious" climate change. . .


---
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grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-18-09 07:16 PM
Response to Original message
17. An opinion that is complete devoid of a single fact
Here are the facts. In Iraq where we could have had influence and gotten significant parts of the oil business, American companies are getting none.

The results of the completely independent Iraqi oil auction completely undermine your absurd fantasy. There is of course another more obvious response. A pipeline across Afghanistan is going to be one of the least likely mega projects to be comercially succesful. Besides a 30 year civil war the topography of Afghanistan is not condusive to an easy laying of of pipeline, and the fact that they would have to build the roads first would be the killer, before having to consider the security question.





http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE5BB18Q20091213


No boon for U.S. firms in Iraq oil deal auction



BAGHDAD (Reuters) - Critics said the 2003 U.S. invasion of Iraq said was driven by oil, but United States oil majors were largely absent from an Iraqi auction of oil deals snapped up instead by Russian, Chinese and other firms.

Russia

Iraqi officials said this proved their independence from U.S. influence and that their two bidding rounds this year for deals to tap Iraq's vast oil reserves, the world's third largest, were free of foreign political interference.


The Oil Ministry on Saturday ended its second bidding round after awarding seven of the oilfields offered for development, adding to deals from a first auction in June that could together take Iraq up to a capacity to pump 12 million barrels per day.

"For us in Iraq, it shows the government is fully free from outside influence. Neither Russia nor America could put pressure on anyone in Iraq -- it is a pure commercial, transparent competition," said government spokesman Ali al-Dabbagh.

"No one, even the United States, can steal the oil, whatever people think."

Russia's Lukoil on Saturday clinched a deal to develop Iraq's supergiant West Qurna Phase Two oilfield after having failed to convince Iraq to bypass the auction and revive an old Saddam Hussein-era deal for the field.


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Lerkfish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-18-09 07:58 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. all the respect I have had for you over the years just evaporated
but that's ok, because its apparent you have none for me.

have a nice day.
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grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-18-09 08:48 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. I don't have opinions for substituting fanciful ideological conspiracy for facts

If you thought I did before today then you haven't been reading.


On the issue of whether American military is an extension of Corporate businesses securing contracts to exploit resources the facts are irrefutable. In Iraq the US government has assisted the newly Iraqi government to have a transparent system of auctions that were televised on TV. US companies did not win any of those contracts.

Now against that historical fact you post a map with a line on it and expect respect.

If you want respect then admit that you made a mistake, I will respect that.

Beyond the idea of a pipeline in Afghanistan being practical given the topography, infrastructure and security problems is far fetched but if you actually have some evidence bring it on. What companies are going to be involved in this pipeline. What Afghan ministries are going to be involved. When does construction begin.

Your conspiracy map is not backed by fact, reason, or logic. The US gives up the lucrative Iraqi oil market for the marginal Afghan natural gas project even though a simple look at the topology shows you that Afghanistan doesn't have either the shortest or flatest route available, conditions essential for a pipeline.

Anything that is against the US must be true because it is against the US despite all reason, is that it?
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stevenleser Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-19-09 09:01 AM
Response to Reply #20
25. Nor is this the only pipeline in the world or the only one in countries that have elements hostile
to the United States.
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-18-09 08:03 PM
Response to Original message
19. All based on twoofer conspiracy theory.
George Bush (with the help of Obama, apparently) planted miniaturized nuclear bombs in the WTC, and then blamed Osama bin Laden (who was receiving kidney dialysis on an American military base in Algeria) as an excuse to invade Afghanistan for the sake of building a pipeline in order to award contracts to his (and Obama's apparently) rich oil buddies who would build such a pipeline, apparently.

Just don't ask why Bush never bothered to secure Afghanistan and build that pipeline in the last 8 years because that would make you a minion of Bush's (and Obama's, apparently).
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niyad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-19-09 08:03 AM
Response to Original message
21. can't rec, will kick
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Imagevision Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-19-09 08:14 AM
Response to Original message
22. The US tried securing a deal with the Teliban in Texas before 9-11... but Teliban said NO.
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DailyGrind51 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-19-09 08:38 AM
Response to Original message
24. Archaic term "Afganistanism" for journalists too timid to tackle local issues.
Bob Greene


JWR's Pundits
World Editorial

A few words about a word now useless


http://www.NewsAndOpinion.com -- IF you're old enough, and you ever worked in the news business, there is a word with which you will be familiar -- although chances are, you haven't heard it in awhile.

It is a word that used to have a lot of meaning, in defining how the news of the world was delivered to the people of the United States.

The word is -- was -- "Afghanistanism."

It wasn't heard much outside of newsrooms. Depending on whom you ask about it, it had two almost opposite meanings. Yet the two meanings addressed the same issue.

"Afghanistanism," some old news hands recall, was used as a derisive term to describe local editors who were too meek to take on the problems in their own towns, so instead wrote long-winded editorials about countries far away. Don't want to incite the wrath of the mayor, or the city council, or the city's leading merchant? Then leave them alone -- and instead pontificate about the political climate in Afghanistan.

The alternate meaning of "Afghanistanism," according to those who remember its use, could be translated something like this: "One cat in a tree rescued in this town warrants bigger display on Page One than 5,000 people killed in an earthquake in Afghanistan." As with the first definition, it was spoken with not a little cynicism -- the people who spoke about Afghanistanism were not endorsing it, they were moaning about the provincial aspects of hometown news coverage.

Not to dwell on the self-evident aspects of this, but of all the countries that could have been used to describe this set of news phenomena, "Afghanistanism" has special meaning to us in the dwindling days of 2001. The word was used, half-a-century and more ago, in an effort to come up with a reference almost absurd in its distance -- both geographic and symbolic -- from the United States. A country to use as an example of a place American readers would have absolutely no interest in? Afghanistan won that dubious prize.

Now no country in the world is receiving as intensive news coverage as Afghanistan. But even if that weren't the case -- even if Osama bin Laden were thought to have made his headquarters inside the borders of some other nation, and Afghanistan had not played any part in the United States' war against terrorism -- Afghanistanism as a news concept would be all but dead. It has been for some time now.

Afghanistanism was shorthand for one of the oldest of human tendencies: out of sight, out of mind. If you couldn't see it, if it wasn't a part of your set of references, then you could ignore it. It might as well not exist.

Such places -- and the attitude they represent -- are increasingly rare. Afghanistanism -- the passive belief that if a place is far enough away, it doesn't figure in your life -- is not possible when events in any location on the globe can be beamed into homes anywhere else on the globe, live, or close to it. There was a cozy, self-deluding conceit to the old news concept of Afghanistanism -- it was a conceit that said: The ramifications of what happens somewhere very distant can be kept away from us if we simply choose to ignore it. It's like the tree falling in the forest -- if we make the conscious decision not to hear it tumble, then we can tell ourselves that it did not happen.

No more. The events that have been taking place in Afghanistan are an all-but-official announcement that Afghanistanism -- under its old newsroom definitions -- is probably gone from the planet forever. As it is, the military actions in Afghanistan have been delivered to American news audiences in relatively primitive video versions, and still they have a riveting immediacy.

Imagine what will happen in the next war, once the technology exists to completely override military control of news output. Imagine what will happen when a war is covered live -- with battles being shown as they happen, in real time, with perfect color and sharpness. Very much like the coverage from New York on the morning of Sept. 11.

Think about how that kind of war coverage will affect people. Afghanistanism? Whatever it once meant, it means something completely different now. Just turn on your television set.



JWR contributor Bob Greene is a novelist and columnist. Send your comments to him by clicking here.

Bob Greene Archives
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