I long for the days of LBJ,, when he would call out Repubs and Dems alike

[lazer47]

and threaten to shut down their favorite project, to get a bill passed,, but the days of having balls enough to do that are over,, that is how a sniveling Idiot like Lieberman,or Nelson, and the rest of the BIG TEN can get by with this mess over health care... It's time Pres. Obama steped to the plate and takes CHARGE for a change

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

1. Not even LBJ would break this impasse.

LBJ: Joe, I'm going to take away your committee chairmanships if you don't vote with us.
Lieberman: Go ahead. I'll go caucus with Republicans, who voted for me anyway, and you'll never get my vote on anything.
LBJ: .......


LBJ: Ben, I'm going to pull all your campaign funding and make sure Nebraska doesn't get a dime unless you vote with us.
Nelson: Okay, but this state hasn't voted for a Democrat besides me in a statewide election in my lifetime. You do that, you lose my vote permanently because you lose me permanently, and last I checked, negotiating with me is a lot easier than negotiating with Republicans.
LBJ: .......

[phleshdef]

2. Bwahaha. Thats exactly how it would go down too. Getting sick of the LBJ myths.

The guy was an asshole who knew where the bodies were buried and he got a lot sympathy because Kennedy was assassinated. That was all. There was nothing special about him.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

4. Like it or not, Republicans gave LBJ his leverage.

He could sacrifice a Democrat or two because he could pick up a Republican here or there and get something done. These Republicans are entirely unwilling to do that. Thus, we have to have every last Democrat on board, thereby making Obama need them more than they need him (especially if their state didn't vote for him, as is the case in all examples save Lieberman, but he won on Republican voters anyway).

[lazer47]

5. Bull***t he got Medicare passed in 6 mo without a majority

[andym]

12. He had the largest Democratic majority since the 30's and he had 40-50% Repub. support

This is the voting for the Social Security Act of 1965 which
establised Medicare and Medicaid
http://www.socialsecurity.gov/history/tally65.html


SENATE	
YEA  NAY   NOT VOTING

Democrats	
57    7        4

Republicans	
13     17      2

HOUSE	
YEA  NAY   NOT VOTING
Democrats	
237    48      8

Republicans	
70     68       2


Look at the size of the Democratic majorities back then  --
68 senators (enough to block Filibusters under the old 66
Senator rule).  Most went for the bill.  Look at the
significant Republican support
(50% of the House Republicans, 13 Senators) Too bad LBJ
didn't go for single-payer for everyone.  

[izquierdista]

7. You misunderestimate LBJ

It would be more like "Joe, you know that sub building yard in Groton? How would you like one of those subs up your ass? I'm sure I can leave one to go up your ass while I move the entire facility to Texas and blame the loss on you."

or "Ben, I got this buddy named Ben Nelson too. He's a doc down in Texas. He's thinking of expanding to your wonderful state and I'd like you to be at the opening of his new drive-in abortion clinic. It's gonna be wonderful, neon signs flashing all night -- "Ben Nelson, M.D. ABORTIONS.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

8. And their responses would be the same.

You're missing the point - there's no leverage involved for fictional LBJ/Obama. LBJ needs them more than they need LBJ. Again, LBJ could wrangle a few Republicans here and there - these republicans aren't willing to do that.

You can grouse all you want, you can threaten all you want. But if you replace Ben Nelson with an actual Republican (from Nebraska, no less), you will not yield a better result, and we all know it. And as for Lieberman, we already tried and failed to replace him. He's only still a senator by the grace of Republicans, frankly. Furthermore, we're stuck with Joe in the Senate until at least 2012 at this point anyway. Again, no leverage whatsoever.

[izquierdista]

10. You're the one missing the point

There are ALWAYS things the President can do, even in Republican districts. LBJ had plenty of leverage on Republicans, because they wanted to bring home the bacon and have some clout with the government.

I'll give you an example. Congressmen are always happy to oblige a company hiring undocumented workers, like say those meat packers in Nebraska. During the Bush years, ICE enforcements against employers were down 95%. If ICE made weekly visits to meat packing plants, checking everyone's I-9 form, soon there would be phones ringing off the hook in Nelson's office asking him to get them to lay off. And who do you think the head of ICE gets his marching orders from?

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

14. Nelson then gets on the phone...

and says, "If you'd really rather negotiate with Senator Dave Heineman instead of me, keep up the good work." Then he hangs up, comforted by the knowledge that he is literally as good as it gets from Nebraska and that until Democrats expand their majorities, he's one of a handful of deciding votes on pretty much everything.

And perhaps you haven't noticed, but Republicans typically rail against "bringing home the bacon" specifically to insulate themselves from that very scenario. Obama threatens to pull your funding? Good - you'll join the McCain Crusade against "government waste" and whatever little support you lose you can buy back with money from the other idiots around the nation already on board. Not to mention they'll blame Obama for the loss of jobs during a time of economic crisis and that'll be one more nail in your coffin. It's not like Obama can go public with the threat either - that won't exactly go over well. Don't forget - we have a jury rigged media. They'll go along with the spin.

[izquierdista]

15. More points missed

Rather than point them out to you, I'd suggest remedial classes.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

16. If by "more points missed" you mean threaten physical violence,

then no, I don't think I need your class, thanks. You seem to need an education in negotiation and leverage, namely the part where threats have to be credible to work.

[treestar]

20. You seem to be advocating for something other than the type of

government we are supposed to have. Frankly, your version sounds corrupt.

[treestar]

19. So what is there in Connecticut that can be moved now?

And how can the President just move it? Does the President have the power to close a yard of that kind and move it to another state?

This is just wishful thinking, that the President should be so "tough" and threaten these Senators. Our Constitution meant for them to have power on their own, not to be pushed around by the President.

[Wapsie B]

3. For all his faults LBJ had the guts to go to the mat for things he believed in.

Just think what would happen if his Civil Rights legislation were presented today? Democrats would be tap-dancing around the repugs, letting things get so watered down as to render any bill that passed to be essentially worthless. I mean we can't make the gop angry can we? :eyes:

[Thothmes]

18. Hence our involvment in Vietnam. He believed in it.

[treestar]

21. Fantasy

[Wapsie B]

24. Well since you say so that completely changes my mind.

:eyes:

[calico1]

6. I would love for Obama to adopt some of

LBJ's toughness.

I was watching on PBS a while back when they did a series on presidents. They played some of the tapes of conversations that LBJ had with different people in Congress to show how he would get people to do stuff. One of them has him asking Gerald Ford to be on the Warren Commission. Nicely at first. Ford hemms and haws and you can hear he has reservation about doing it. LBJ says to him something like "You are going to be on this commission" in a foreceful "I'm not taking 'no' for an answer" way. He would ask you first, and then he would tell you you were going to do it! LOL God I wish Obama were more like that.


In all fairness though, those of use who are old enough should keep in mind that back in the 60's the nutty right wingers in Congress you could count on one hand. The Republicans back then were more like Ford, Rockerfeller, Goldwater. You could deal with them a lot more. So in that sense LBJ had a big advantage over Obama.

Sadly, today some of the Democrats in Congress are more to the Right than most Republicans were back in LBJ's days.

[Zomby Woof]

9. I'll pass on re-living Vietnam, however

Afghanistan doesn't even come close to being a debacle on that scale, despite what the dumbfucks around here think.

[FrenchieCat]

11. You long for the days of LBJ, that even with a Dead Murdered President for him to point to,

and a media that was much more simpathetic and objective,
he still had a hard time getting it done?

Wow!

[marlakay]

13. You do know how he did that right??????

He kept files on everyone knew all their dirty secrets and threatened and or manipulated them to get them to do what he wanted.

Reason he didn't get as much done a few years later is he lost some of those people in new elections and had no control over them, just as Obama doesn't now.

[Thothmes]

17. You long for the days that Americans were coming home

about 100 a week in body bags. When three carrier battle groups and one half of the U.S. Airforce tried to bomb Vietnam into the stone age. When 500,000 Americans soldiers, sailors and airmen, did their best to kill as many of the "enemy" as they could in Vietnam. The good old days when we pummeled vietanm with rockets, bombs, napalm,& agent orange. Real praise worth goals. Sorry, I do not see anything admirable about those good old days. JMO.

[calico1]

22. LBJ's talent was with Domestic policy.

He sucked as far as Vietnam but was very effective domestically, which is what Medicare and Civil Rights was.

[Ildem09]

23. LBJ was the orginal badass

The dude got all funding for a state pulled cause one of its senators pissed him off. You think he would put up with this bullshit from Liberman and nelson lincoln etc