I think some folks around here believed the Tea Baggers, more than they believed the President

[Perky]

What the hell do you think it meant when he said, "if you like your current coverage you get to keep it".

If you were paying the least bit of attention, this was never going to look anything like a "government takeover of health care". Whether or not you were horrified by that notion or were enthralled by the idea. IT WAS NEVER GOING TO HAPPEN. If you thought the legislation was headed that way you were as deluded as the wingnuts and as about as useful to the process.

I am not saying it was wrong to hope for that, or even fight like Hell for that..... but it should have been clear to you since April that it was not in the cards. The fact that you now seem astounded that the legislation did not come close to that is quite honestly a little disturbing. Some of you are now coming across as conspiratorial as the Birthers.


The President is not a villian and he is certainly deserving of some criticism. The President's approach to HCR did include some bargains with The insurance companies and Pharma... Yes. Quid pro quos? Yes. Is that a bad thing. No. Not necessarily. Did they Renege.... IMHO Yes. What I don't understand why, if he decided to craft side deals, why he decided to hand control of the legislative process over to Congress. In hindsight, but only in hindsight, it was not a good strategy. There are simply too many voices to be heard and too many ears to listen.

Yet even have said this: I believe this President has always wanted to do the right thing. I don't, for a nanosecond, think he is a sell out to the insurance companies.

But I do I think that those those who believe he is a corporate shill, have their heads up their asses, because they still seem to think the entire purpose of this legislation was to eviscerate the entire system we have. Your liberal outrage is conspicuously void of any rational comprehension of what has been said. It is as Politically Tone Deaf as anything I have seen in my thirty plus years of political observation.

Now you want to purify the party!! Good God! as if you would get any further down the road on a progressive agenda by kicking out all the "DLCers" the BlueDogs and the CorpoDems.

Here's your takeaway. You will never be as organized as the Tea Baggers and that ain't saying much about them either.

[Moochy]

1. Extra big fonts makes it easy to read

That sure is some right good moderate outrage!

on edit thanks for fixing the fonts at least...

[Deep13]

2. First, he promised health care as a right.

Second, I really don't care what he said. This is about what we need and not about what a politician promised.

[Perky]

3. point proven

[Deep13]

31. Which is what exactly? nt

[John Q. Citizen]

4. My kids like SCHIP but they aren't allowed to keep it under the current bill.

So much for promises.

[dkf]

5. What if we don't like and don't trust our coverage?

I've had coverage my whole life and after reading about all the horror stories, I want a public option as a safety net.

I think I've been sold a bill of goods about private health insurance. Luckily I haven't had to test it to its limits yet but I have no faith that it will be there like the Government would.

[Armstead]

6. You call critics "socialists" and then pull the Teabagger Card? YOU sound like a Teabagger

Not exactly consistent there.

You yourself are using the same bogeyman that teabaggers use.

At least be consistent and call us Marxist Rabble.

[Perky]

7. I was not using "Socialist" perjoratively.

[Armstead]

9. "Head up their socialists asses" sounds pretty perjorative to me

Equating critics of the current plan with "socialism" is a classic conservative trick.

[Perky]

15. point taken

:)

[Armstead]

19. Thank you

We should be able to disagree and still be civil about it.

[Moochy]

17. He meant it as a compliment

'to have one's head up one's Socialist ass' is totally common in moderate parlance. It roughly translates to "jolly good chap"

[Perky]

18. "good show good show"

:applause:

[niceypoo]

13. I read a dozen threads yesterday whining about 'The liberals'

I wonder if they pronounce it, 'libruls'

[BlueJac]

8. Quit yelling......

read the "Rolling Stone" article this month, then start yelling.

[niceypoo]

10. It must really be getting lonely out in the shillderness

...for them to start coming up with this desperate sort of crap

[Perky]

12. Nice turn of phrase.

but is that he extent of your comments?

[niceypoo]

32. You want comments?

OK, here goes:

We want a strong bill. The teabaggers want NO bill. We want the OPPOSITE of what the teabaggers want. Attempting to equate them is, at best, an intellectual dishonest smear.

Is it all clear now?

[dionysus]

11. +1

[xchrom]

14. I think your love for Obama is getting the

Better of your ability to reason.

[Perky]

16. Crickets on the content...sound and fury on the tact.

No one has disputed what I said in the OP

[Moochy]

22. Your OP glosses over the changes in the Senate Bill in recent weeks.

If your tact was less conducive to 'sound and fury', more people might have pointed this out.

[styersc]

20. You think that this whole thing has been about those who are

insured, stay insured? Are you kidding/

In your post you say...."(The president)....is certainly deserving of criticism."

Ok- what are your criticisms?

[Perky]

33. Where in the world did I say that

Please read the posr inclucind my criticism of the president

[AndyA]

21. Obama said a lot of things.

He promised transparency. We know that wasn't really the case.

He promised equality for gay people. So far, not much change other than being added to the hate crimes bill.

He promised no new taxes if you had a moderate income. What do you suppose that mandatory health care premium is? And what about the people who don't have insurance because every penny that comes in goes out on food, groceries, mortgage payment, etc.? How are they supposed to absorb another $400-600/month expense that's going to be forced on them?

We have 17.5% real unemployment in this country. How are all those unemployed/underemployed going to afford a new monthly expense? Is the government going to pick up 100% of that cost for 100% of them?

Obama has made some really bad decisions. Instead of leading the health reform debate, he's kept quiet for the most part. Being President of the United States of America REQUIRES LEADERSHIP. Obama has FAILED TO LEAD on this issue.

Why are some of the same people who were involved in the Wall Street/banking collapse still making decisions for that industry? Is that a prudent decision? Would you hire a bank robber to provide security for a bank? An alcoholic to watch the liquor cabinet?

The health care insurance companies are seeing their stock increase. That alone should tell you who will benefit from this "reform." The problem is, those companies are already making huge profits. The American people are HURTING.

Where are the good intentions? What happened to do no harm? What happened to change you can believe in?

Facts are important. Facts matter.

[asdjrocky]

23. A+++++++++++++

:hi:

[freddie mertz]

25. Stop confusing them with FACTS.

This is about FAITH we can believe in.

When the apologists resort to calling critics tea-baggers, it's clear that reality means less than nothing to them.

They want to tie us all to a stake and burn us as heretics.

It's vengeance and purges that they want, not a reasoned debate.

[Laelth]

24. Obama promised us no individual mandate.

I am not asking for a pony. I am asking Obama to do what he promised an not force the uninsured to further enrich the health insurance cabal.

:dem:

-Laelth

[Perky]

34. Has he signed such a bill?

[Laelth]

38. I certainly hope he vetoes this legislation, if it winds up on his desk.

Do you think he will?

Seriously?

:shrug:

:dem:

-Laelth

[treestar]

26. Americans are very scared of change

Even if it would help them.

I don't see how the POTUS can "make a deal with the insurance companies and big pharma." They have no vote. It is indirectly a deal with Lieberman perhaps. The insurance companies and big pharma are involved, there is no doubting that. But then if will affect those companies. But blind hatred of anyone that makes a profit is necessary for the "left."

[ShortnFiery]

27. It's not that simple and you know it. eom

[jgraz]

28. It's not that we trust the teabaggers more. It's just that their lies are easier to spot.

It's taken most of us 11 months to realize how completely Obama's been playing us.

[BlueIdaho]

29. Ah yes- the Tea Bagger corollary to Goodwin's Law. The insults continue. nt.

[Phx_Dem]

30. They thought it meant single-payer for all.

:crazy:

[Parker CA]

35. Your bold sentence is the same line Landrieu pulled on Dean on Hardball the other day. nt.

[quakerboy]

36. Only if I pay a fine

I don't have insurance. If I want to keep that, it looks as though i will be paying anyway.

I think the bigger problem here is that the president seems to believe in the teabaggers more than he believes in the people who voted for him.

[ClarkUSA]

37. Some folks liked him as much as teabaggers and are using HCR to express their bitterness.

It's the End-of-the-Year Outrage, doncha know?

[Wilson56]

39. Great OP. The Tea and Left Baggers are now indistinguishable.

Yes, they come from different wings, but they're both prisoners of their purist ideology, both utterly terrified that this administration will actually change people's lives for the better, because such an eventuality would show them up for the fools and doctrinaires that they are.

Paul Krugman: "...don’t take it out on the tens of millions of Americans who will have health insurance if this bill passes, but will be out of luck — and, in some cases, dead — if it doesn’t."

What's that? Fuck those tens of millions of Americans because the bill isn't pure?

I think we can take it that the privileged purists have health insurance, why else would they care so little about those tens of millions?

You know what you can do with your purity. ;-)

[HopeOverFear]

40. some of the folks around here ARE teabaggers. n/m

[Name removed]

41. Deleted message

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