Why is the meat of the debate over cuts to Social Security and Medicare, not the military?

[rug]

He who defines the argument wins the argument.

They have defined the argument.

[treestar]

1. Republican House

Republicans are at an advantage since they are the ones who want to cut government. It's not an even playing field.

Republicans believe the military is a legitimate function of government and they like playing world policeman. It makes them feel powerful. That is an obsession with Republicans.

Republicans believe social programs are wrong and that the federal government should not run them.

This is what happens when Republicans get elected.

[Bluenorthwest]

5. They hold the lesser chamber only

Funny that they are at an advantage with one majority that we did not seem to have with both and the WH. Republicans always get elected, there has never, ever been a Republican free Congress. Never. This is what happens when Democrats are weak. This is what happens when a Democrat appoints Republicans to high positions. We've always had Republicans and Democrats, never have we had a President who seems to think he is an umpire in a nonpartisan role.
It is also so interesting to me that the ardent supporters here are quick to the partisan blame, even as he who they claim to support speaks in hearts and flowers of bipartisan delusion.

[treestar]

10. So that chamber has to have a vote

Yes, it is powerful. It cannot be overlooked. Republicans have it now and that means they can stop everything.

They can control the Senate with 40 of them.

They are also at an advantage because they want the government small. It is more difficult to pass a new program than it is to halt programs that exist by these games Republicans play.

Quit calling Democrats weak, or do something to strengthen them. This bashing of Democrats helps Republicans. Republicans want to stop all social programs, even if not repealed, where they control the purse strings, they can cause this trouble.

[ProSense]

12. Yeah, remember

when Newt and the "lesser chamber" shut down the government?

This is what happens when hostage takers are given control of a part of the government.

Maybe if Obama, like FDR, had a Democratic Congress his entire Presidency things would be different.

It might have been different if today's Republicans were anything like the 1930s GOP, with 16 Republican Senator ready to support Social Security.

[paulk]

37. "umpire in a nonpartisan role"

that nails it.

[CreekDog]

7. no, because Obama is nearly as hawkish as the Republicans

:banghead:

[Pharaoh]

2. the military and the corporations

and banks and wall street, all parasites that are killing their host.

[still_one]

3. Because the idiots that voted in the midterms gave us the republicans in the house /nt

[Cali_Democrat]

11. I don't see Obama coming out forcefully for significant defense cuts

Didn't he recently sign a bill or isn't he about to sign a defense bill worth $650 to $700 billion?

He should talk about refusing to fund the wars/attacks in Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Yemen and Pakistan.

He should also talk about gutting almost all new defense programs. There's no reason why our defense budget should be larger than Canada's as we currently face no threats against our existence.

[Mimosa]

22. Haven't heard of any defense cuts

And Petraeus is going to head the CIA. That says something.

[Palmer Eldritch]

39. Actually, there are billions in defense cuts on the table. Maybe you only hear what you want to?

[leveymg]

4. Because retirees on Social Security can't blow your head off along w/ the entire state you lived in

We're afraid of them, for good reason. That's why.

[ProSense]

6. Because

that's what the media and Republicans want to focus on.

Obama is talking about defense cuts.

<...>

It also requires cuts in defense spending, and I’ve said that in addition to the $400 billion that we’ve already cut from defense spending, we’re willing to look for hundreds of billions more.

<...>

Even Kent Conrad is talking about defense cuts.

[rug]

16. Well, they haven't being very effective then in defining the debate.

I find it hard to believe the GOP clowns have the ability to drown out a forceful argument forcefully made.

[ProSense]

18. Really?

"I find it hard to believe the GOP clowns have the ability to drown out a forceful argument forcefully made."

Which network do you expect to drown out the GOP clowns?

Democrats can and have had success to a point, but it's not as simple as having a forceful message. As Krugman points out, media complicity matters

[rug]

20. Really.

How many networks will fail to cover a press conference in which Obama announces deep cuts in the Defense Department?

Do you think the Administration is incapable of handling a media backlash?

This is all hypothetical of course. That press conference has yet to be made.

[Vattel]

28. Keep in mind, however, that it's not really a cut.

It means slowed growth in the defense budget, which has been growing by 7% per year (adjusted for inflation). Still less growth is better than more growth.

[orwell]

8. Support the Troops...

...(rinse, repeat)

File under mindless mantras perpetrated by the Military Industrial Complex...

Now move on citizen.

[OHdem10]

9. The Republicans have been try to repeal, roll back get rid of

any program associated with FDR's NEW DEAL and LBJ's(Welfare, SS)
WAR ON POVERTY(Medicare, Medicaid) since the days they were made
law. THE REPUBLICANS are so close now they can taste it. They
do everything in their power to keep the Military as their own.
Does not take a rocket scientist to figure this out.

[gristy]

13. We're at war, remember? The security of our country is at stake. Gotta support the troops.

What'd I miss?

[femrap]

14. It's the

whole 'male-gun-protection-penis lenght' thing.

Plus lotsa $$$$ made selling arms to both sides of a conflict. Defense Contractors and their Lobbyists pretty much rule the world. And it's the elderly, women, and children who pay the price as collateral damage which is 70% of casualties. Sure wish da boyz would go back to hand-to-hand combat and leave us out of their silly macho games.

Read the Report from Iron Mountain....could be real or a spoof....shows how Peace couldn't possibly work in our world today.

[QC]

15. The corporate elite makes vast sums of money off the military.

They pass on a small portion of that money to the political elite, which arranges for the corporate elite to receive even more vast sums of money, a small portion of which they pass on to the political elite, etc.

Old people, handicapped people, poor people, etc., on the other hand, are nowhere near as profitable.

[rug]

17. The capitalist class is the Lord Voldemort of politics, they who must not be named.

[RDANGELO]

19. The big lie by omission.

The American people are not being told why we are spending so much on national defense. For the life of me, I couldn't tell you. Spending on the military has increased over 80% since 2001, not counting the wars.

[ShadowLiberal]

21. Because too many americans & the media are obsessed with having a 'strong' military to keep us safe

The media refuses to listen to anyone who wants to talk seriously about what a 'strong' military really is. The media also refuses to talk about if more money on defense really keeps us safe. And finally the media fails to question our many wars, and countries we have troops occupying (over 100) and ask if they really make us any safer.

Because the media doesn't push those questions Americans have been brain washed by politicians who use fear tactics on terrorism and wars to get themselves elected.

[Vattel]

27. Wow, that is fucking well-said.

[chill_wind]

29. More and more, though, a majority of voters want cuts to defense spending. (60 %)

They seem to think there is room for difference between "safe" and greedy gluttony and waste.

They seem want that, whether media and politicians tell them to want it or not.

Conversely, 67 percent disagree with a proposal to reduce cost-of-living adjustments in Social Security and 70 percent disagree with reducing Medicare and Medicaid payments to doctors.

http://njtoday.net/2011/07/12/3-out-of-5-voters-want-to-cut-defense-spending/

MSNBC:

A mere 18 percent back cuts in the Social Security retirement program.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/41993528/ns/politics-more_politics/t/poll-public-prefers-cutting-defense-spending/

[Melinda]

23. The Fed subsidized farmers/ranchers/dairy to the tune of 400 million in CA alone in 2009...

The highest payout the Feds made to my small county California in 2009 was some 181,961,056.00 for crop insurance; this exceeded the next highest payment by some 40 million - wages and salary for active military in CA for this same period was 140,442,000.00. And that 181,961,056 figure? It was only one of the many different farmer/dairy/ranch subsidy payouts from the 2009 budget... the next was 47 million for flood insurance, then 26 million from another for crop insurance fund. Then there are other subsidies in the form of commodity loans, milk income loss payments, crop disaster payments, etc., etc., etc. Subsidized farm/dairy/ranch assistance in CA exceeded more than 400 million dollars in fiscal year 2009 alone.

1.25 Billion for flood and crop insurance across the US in 2009.

Share this small factoid with your favorite republican next time they begin to rant and rave about "entitlement" programs.

Sorry about being kinda sorta off topic.

My figures are sourced from the US Census Bureau, Consolidated Federal Funds Report: Fiscal Year 2009, Detailed Federal Expenditure Data: California - Kings County. I have a hard copy in my paws but no direct online link, but here's a link to their site w/data:

http://www.census.gov/prod/2010pubs/cffr-09.pdf

I'll obtain a direct link to my hard copy pdf next week when I return to work.

[cottonseed]

24. the AARP armies and boomers dont give a shit until it gets a little uncomfortable for them

They don't care about military budgets. Cut funding to the poor and educating young people? They don't give a shit. Threaten to take away their Denny's and Rascal money and that's how things get done in this country.

[dflprincess]

33. Really? Because the Boomers I know, myself included,

have been complaining about social programs and education being sacrificed to the defense budget since Vietnam.

[bornskeptic]

25. It isn't. The only debate that matters is over raising taxes.

President Obama has made it uite clear that without significant revenue increases, Medicare and Social Security are untouchable. Of course we all know that there is no chance of getting tax increases of that magnitude through the House, so any talk about entitlement cuts is only political theater, and has been from the minute the President put his foot down on taxes. So the only things really being debated now are whether enough GOPers can be persuaded to go along with eliminating a couple of egregious tax loopholes in exchange for a few minor spending cuts and whether a few House Republicans are gullible enough to be duped into voting to increase the debt ceiling by $2.5 trillion without knowing they did it.

[woo me with science]

26. Strong K&R

They had two and a half years to change the argument. One must surmise they did not care to change it.

[Lorien]

30. That's what the "bully pulpit" is for

but Obama has chosen to use it to promote GOP talking points instead of opposing them.

[July16th-20th]

31. Profits.

As usual.

[dflprincess]

32. Especially as Social Security does not contribute to the deficit

and that can't be said about the defense budget.

[StarsInHerHair]

34. because SocSec has NOTHING to do with the deficit & they want austerity

which is just another word for poverty.



& Hooverism.

[tekisui]

35. War is bipartisan and the only true sacred cow in DC.

[Name removed]

36. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Palmer Eldritch]

38. It isn't. The fight is over spending cuts to the budget.

The rest of it is tangential.