Obama tries to box in House GOP

[ProSense]

Obama tries to box in House GOP

By Steve Benen

President Obama stopped by the White House briefing room, offering an update on the status of the debt-ceiling process. I’ve seen some reports suggesting the president endorsed the Gang of Six’s compromise, but that’s not quite what he said, and it seems to miss the point of Obama’s comments.

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In general, the president stuck to generalities, saying he’s seem “some progress” of late, and dismissing the “Cut, Cap, and Balance” charade out of hand.

Specifically on the Gang of Six, however, Obama said their apparent agreement is “broadly consistent” with the approach he’s pushed, and praised it for touching all the bases — it cuts spending while increasing revenues, as part of a larger, significant debt-reduction package. He added that he’d still need more details before evaluating it fully, but added, “I think that we’re on the same playing field. “

This, however, is what struck me as key:

“So here’s where we stand. We have a Democratic President and administration that is prepared to sign a tough package that includes both spending cuts, modifications to Social Security, Medicaid and Medicare that would strengthen those systems and allow them to move forward, and would include a revenue component. We now have a bipartisan group of senators who agree with that balanced approach. And we’ve got the American people who agree with that balanced approach.”

The president wasn’t speaking from prepared remarks, so it’s possible this came together by accident, but it sounded to me like Obama was intentionally boxing in House Republicans. The point wasn’t to endorse the Gang of Six, per se, so much as to use the Gang of Six to make a larger point: the White House wants a balanced approach, a bipartisan group in the Senate wants a balanced approach, and the American mainstream wants a balanced approach.

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[JuniperLea]

1. Yep... he was pointing out the adults...

The others know who they are.

[damntexdem]

2. Hey, it's one thing to box them. But please ...

no gift wrapping. ;-)

[Warren Stupidity]

3. Obama now supports a plan that lowers taxes on billionaires

while cutting social security and medicare benefits.

[woolldog]

6. yeah but

he's "boxing them in"!

Don't you appreciate his brilliance?

:rofl:

[ClarkUSA]

7. Where did he say that, exactly? Give us the details of the plan you're referring to..

[Warren Stupidity]

43. google broken for you too?

how odd. Seems to be broken quite selectively these days.

http://www.kaiserhealthnews.org/Stories/2011/July/19/executive-summary-gang-of-six-plan.aspx

[madfloridian]

9. That's about right. It's shocking to me.

It angers me that we are supposed to be supportive of such things.

[ClarkUSA]

11. What is "shocking to you" exactly? WTF details do you have about the final bill?

[creeksneakers2]

59. Here's a summary the gang of six put out

http://assets.nationaljournal.com/pdf/071911ConradBudgetExecutiveSummary.pdf

[mzmolly]

23. Medicare benefit cuts?

If the gang of six plan survives, it will also tie federal pensions to the chained CPI. I'm not holding my breath.

[canoeist52]

4. Is HE the one who broke the glass case in the hall?

[Armstead]

5. Many of us are not ready to sign a "tough package" by his definition

It's only tough on liberal and progressive values and goals, and on the vast number of people who rely on them -- not to mention the ability to take any proactive initiatives in the future because of the GOP right-wing straightjacket the Democratic "centrists" want to support.

[ClarkUSA]

8. Nothing has been agreed upon, so WTF are you complaining about now?

Give us the details upon which your outrage is based.

[Armstead]

12. Everything that is being considered sucks

That's what I am complaining about.

This whole linkage between the debt ceiling and the need to develop a responsible long range budget is right-wing GOP bullshit.

We should make it simple. Sign the debt ceiling increase now to avert immediate disaster. The rest can be hashed out separately, without succumbing to GOP lies and blackmail and their ginned-up budget "crisis."

Yes we have to look at government spending and trim the fat. But letting the GOP, Corporate Oligarchs and Teabaggers drive the agenda is the wrong way to do it.

[woolldog]

13. +1

finally, someone on this site who gets it.

[ClarkUSA]

15. Closing tax loopholes suck? Cutting DoD costs suck? Means-testing Medicare sucks? I disagree.

Cutting Medicare and SS costs without touching benefits suck? Bullshit.

[woolldog]

16. you in favor of lowering marginal rates?

just curious.

[ClarkUSA]

17. you in favor of cutting DoD costs? means-testing Medicare recepients? closing tax loopholes?

you in favor of cutting Medicare and SS costs without touching benefits?

just curious.

[woolldog]

18. Answer my question and I will be glad to answer yours. (nt)

[ClarkUSA]

20. I don't chase red herrings re: GOP ideas. My questions are relevant to this subthread.

The questions I asked are actually efforts supported by this Democratic President.

[creeksneakers2]

60. It does almost nothing to cut military spending

Only $8 billion a year out of what? $700 billion and rising? And they even want that money to come out of retirements and health care, so the MIC wouldn't miss a cent.

They say they protect entitlement benefits but also say that they eliminate the poorest Americans from the cuts, so there must be cuts. They have triggers to factor in too.

It cuts SS COLAS and sets up a mechanism to make more cuts in the future.

Most of the saving are just numbers they could up that would be limits on what we would spend in the future, with no actual plan for how to achieve the savings. They leave that up to committees.

Its garbage. GOP through and through.

[Itchinjim]

47. +1

[Dept of Beer]

72. You were asked a question. Why duck it?

[Armstead]

25. Those are valid Democratic points (except maybe Medicare means testing)

But the whole context of this negotiation for a "Grand Bargain" is bullshit.

Those are drops in the bucket compared to what is being demanded in terms of cuts in government spending overall, and the straightjacket that is being imposed by both the GOP and "centrist" Democrats like Obama.

[ClarkUSA]

27. No one knows what the final budget proposal will entail, including you.

So again, WTF are you exactly complaining about?

[Armstead]

30. Let's call it an accumulation of dashed expectations...

Real health care reform with at least a public option and/or REAL price controls and other regulation of insurers...."No extension of Bush tax cuts for the wealthy".....Allowing "too big to fail" financial institutions to continue to grow wealthy and operate with relative impunity.....protecting real net neutrality......Pursuing pro-labor legislation like Employee Free Choice Act...Allowing Comcast/NBC/Universal merger to move forward.......etc. etc. etc.

It would be breaking the pattern if this comes out as anything but another capitulation to, and validation of, conservative and corporate goals.

[ClarkUSA]

31. I'd call it baseless doomsday rhetoric that has no evidence to back it up.

[Armstead]

35. I just gave you a list.....Want more evidence?

You are echoing the previous memes like: "Relax, President Obama and the Democrats won't allow the Bush tax cuts to be extended. Stop being such a pessimist."

[ClarkUSA]

52. Your "list" is irrelevant subjective opinion. I already proved your original claim wrong...

... based on a complete absence of evidence as well as your subsequent claim that "Everything that is being considered sucks".

Suffice it to say, if you want to rail against something that hasn't been decided, much less written down, much less has been expressed by President Obama... knock yourself out. Pointless rhetoric amuses me.

[Armstead]

53. It should have been decided

"My Republican friends. Raising the debt ceiling is a regular and necessary fiscal routine that Presidents and Congress routinely approve because it is absolutely necessary as a means of running the government. Republicans have always recognized this too. So just sign an agreement. Once you do that come back and we can talk about how to handle the long term future of the national budget. If you don't do that, the disaster that results will be on your heads, and the voters will know it. And the business community will know it."

That doesn't seem so hard.

But I'm glad I am able to provide you with some amusement.

[ClarkUSA]

58. Go complain to Eric Cantor and his fellow Teabagger House crazies.

They don't give a shit about what you said or what President Obama says. That much is obvious by now.

[Armstead]

66. Then there is no satisfying them and we shouldn't try by advancing their agenda

[ClarkUSA]

67. How are "we" doing that? FACT: "Top Senate Dems say not enough time to pass Gang of Six plan" -->

Read all about it: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=433x715152

Much outrage over nothing. Again.

It was a strategic ploy designed to make President Obama appear like a reasonable adult, unlike the Teabagger House.

[Armstead]

69. You know, what I am really tired of are all these mixed messages...

WE know what the GOP wants. SLash spending and no new revenues. They may haggle over the extent, but that is their position, and they're sticking to it....Even if (as all sane people hope) they eventualynget sane and pass the debt ceiling, thatvis what they ate aftwr.

What do Democrats want and stand for? It seems to change every day and very seldom clear. And worse yet, when the dust settles, the overall debate will once again have been shifted to the right.

That, in my opinions, is not how to advance an agenda.

[Itchinjim]

49. +1

[Itchinjim]

50. +1

[elleng]

38. THANKS, Clarkie. Tired of repug spin,

but MORE tired of downer DUer's anti-Obama doom and gloom spin.

[Warren Stupidity]

44. So the details of the Go6 plan just supported by Obama are "spin"?

Seriously?

[elleng]

46. He didn't support details.

'I’ve seen some reports suggesting the president endorsed the Gang of Six’s compromise, but that’s not quite what he said, and it seems to miss the point of Obama’s comments.'

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=433x714836

[ClarkUSA]

54. lol! It's amazing how often Obama supporters are constantly referencing FACTS to dispel false memes.

Thank YOU, Ellen. :hi:

[Warren Stupidity]

61. The president said the Go6 plan was in line with his goals.

But we are not supposed to look at the details of that plan and object to those details, because that is somehow 'republican spin'.

"And so I want to congratulate the Gang of Six for coming up with a plan that I think is balanced. We just received it, so we haven’t reviewed all the details of it. It would not match perfectly with some of the approaches that we’ve taken, but I think that we’re in the same playing field."

If Obama is on the same playing field as the Go6 plan then as far as I am concerned that is a rightwing playing field and I need to know where the other game is.

[ClarkUSA]

68. Stop hyperventilating. FACT: "Top Senate Dems say not enough time to pass Gang of Six plan" -->

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=433x715152

It was a strategic ploy designed to make President Obama appear like a reasonable adult, unlike the Teabagger House.

[Itchinjim]

48. +1

[jaxx]

10. If people would only listen to what is said,

instead of going off like a rocket about what they think it means, this whole thing would be a work in progress. But no, they have to imagine the worst and go from there. Self inflicted angst....doesn't it ever get old?

By the way....K & R for a sensible article.

[CakeGrrl]

14. That's not gonna happen here.

People have so thoroughly convinced themselves that the President will fail/cave/capitulate that they're choosing to see it in everything that's said. Never mind what's REALLY going on.

[Leontius]

19. Once he linked Social Security to the debt and defict problem

He failed.

[ClarkUSA]

22. Bullshit. President Obama has repeatedly said Social Security does not contribute to the deficit.

FACTUAL PROOF: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=433&topic_id=712855&mesg_id=712855

Your claim is a FAIL.

[Leontius]

24. Then explain why Social Security is a constant in his plans

to solve the debt and deficit. If it has no effect on debt why link the two in any form. Let's stop praising his every word and look behind the curtain and see who is holding the bag of coin for him.

[ClarkUSA]

26. Have you bothered to even read the factual proof I linked to that disproved your claim?

It's obvious you haven't, otherwise you wouldn't ask. Go read the facts instead of boring me with empty doomsday rhetoric based on zero evidence.

[Leontius]

29. Simple question , Why is Social Security always part of

his message when he talks about plans to fix the budget defict and debt problem?

[ProSense]

32. Here

In his own words

[Leontius]

41. In his own words he puts Social Security into the debt and deficit

discussion, links Social Security to the deficit and debt 'solution', puts a self paying non debt producing program "on the Table". The fact that he knows it is not part of the problem IS the problem.

[ClarkUSA]

33. Again, read the sources which disproved your claim if you really want to know the answer.

I'm not interested in schooling someone who's not going to lift a mental finger to learn the facts as to what President Obama has said.

[jaxx]

21. Nope, it isn't.

But it sure would clean up the place.

[creon]

42. That is obvious

Facts are stupid things.

[ProSense]

34. "Self inflicted angst....doesn't it ever get old?" No, but

it becomes contradictory: The American people, likely the overwhelming majority of Democratic voters, oppose cuts to Social Security. The President is warned that if he cuts Social Security, he'll be a one-term President. Doesn't matter how many time he states that he looking for savings, not cutting benefits. Ooops, I mean not "slashing" benefits.

Why is he doing this: supposedly because he's not a Democrat, only his supporters are too stupid to realize that.

So he'll cut Social Security, disenfranchise Democratic voters, destroy the Democratic Party because he's evil and doesn't really want a second term, with the exception of trying to win over Independents (who also disapprove of cuts to Social Security) in order to win a second term.

[elleng]

39. ...

:thumbsup:

[Fearless]

28. The president is a liar if they cut benefits. A liar and nothing more.

[Doctor_J]

36. Part of this is, er, mistaken

The American mainstream does not want SS cut. So saying that makes this whole concoction suspect.

[elleng]

40. NOT TALKING ABOUT CUTS.

Modification/rationalization so it will last for many years into the future.

[Doctor_J]

45. Balanced approach means cuts to programs together with revenue hikes

so the author's "mainstream America wants a balanced approach" implies "mainstream America wants to cut SS benefits", which is not true. Even mainstream REPUBLICANS want SS benefits left alone

[elleng]

51. Does NOT imply such.

'modifications to Social Security, Medicaid and Medicare that would strengthen those systems'

[Warren Stupidity]

62. just keep juggling words to try to avoid admitting reality.

how stupid do you think people are here?

[elleng]

70. Warren Stupidity?

More foolish than stupid, maybe.

[Warren Stupidity]

74. that all you got?

And after this shitty deal over an invented crisis is passed, what will your excuses be then?

[elleng]

77. You really are stupid, and offensive.

:thumbsdown:

[Warren Stupidity]

78. and you really have nothing in the way of an argument.

cuts to medicare and social security are 'adjustments'. whatever. as I said, how stupid do you think we are?

[bornskeptic]

63. Many here refuse to realize that an automatic 20+% cut is already prescribed by law

to take effect when the trust fund expires, probably about 25 years from now. I find the prospect of that far more unpleasant than the small cuts in future benefit increases which might be the result of beginning to use chained-CPI, which is actually just a more accurate measure of inflation than the currently used CPI.

[Warren Stupidity]

64. gee that can be fixed anytime by adjusting the fica cap

there is no need at all to pre-impose cuts in benefits to avoid a potential shortfall 25 years in the future, a shortfall that occurs only under very pessimistic assumptions.

[Marr]

37. Brilliant! By validating every core tenet of the right-wing economic view,

Obama leaves his opponents no choice but to uh... be boxed in the uh...

Yeah! Whatever!

It's fucking brilliant!

[ClarkUSA]

55. Cutting DoD costs and shutting down tax loopholes is a "core tenet of the right-wing economic view"?

Means-testing Medicare recipients is a "core tenet of the right-wing economic view"?

Refusing to cut Medicare and SS benefits is a "core tenet of the right-wing economic view"?

Really? Because these are President Obama's positions during this budget battle, despite the efforts of some people who are trying to distort his words.

Here's another FACT that may have escaped your rhetoric. President Obama didn't endorse any details: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=433&topic_id=714836&mesg_id=715105

[Dept of Beer]

73. I'm getting dizzy just watching you spin.

[Moostache]

56. It's "triangulation" 2.0.....

"Quadrilaterialation"....whereby you torch ALL of your own core beliefs and then conveniently ask the opposition if you can use their trash can to contain the cinders and ash.

It's brilliant, multi-level chess that us mere mortals - who simply want a return to sane taxation, an end to illegal wars of aggression and believe that its a good idea to, well, you know negotiate the price of drugs before adding them to an unfunded mandate - are not equipped to play against the master.

(dripping with sarcasm for the obtuse who would otherwise read THAT as an endorsement of capitulation (again)...

[ClarkUSA]

57. List exactly what Pres. Obama has said that is '"triangulation" 2.0'. Full quotes, please.

[karynnj]

65. I think you are right

Incidentally, I listened to two RW talking heads while running errands and they were FURIOUS that these people came out with this and Obama spoke about it on the day when the "most important best legislation in decades" (approximate quote) should have been what everyone had to speak about.

I wonder how they could handle this anyway - as it would be impossible to write, score and have hearings on this and be finished by August 2. I suspect that the point is that this is a serious first draft on a real bipartisan attempt to put the country on a healthier financial path. While I think this is NOT the time to pull money out of the economy to lower the deficit or debt, I think that moving this outside the artificial crisis created by the Republicans politicizing the raising of the debt ceiling makes real sense - if it could be done.

One big side gain is refusing to give the RW their ransom for freeing the US economy.

[Dept of Beer]

71. You have no shame.

[Scurrilous]

75. K & R

:thumbsup:

[applegrove]

76. K & R

[July16th-20th]

79. I hope he succeeds

But I'm waiting and watching. Can you blame me???

[Dr Fate]

80. And when he is done, the big 3 will not be touched, and the top 1% will pay their share of taxes.

No doubt about it.

When Obama "tries"- the GOP better LOOK OUT!!!!!!!!!!!

[indepat]

81. A bipartisan, balanced approach can be decoded to mean total capitulation to an extreme RW

agenda, sending America reeling to hell in a hand-basket. This is so starkly evident, even a blind man can see. :patriot:

[Dr Fate]

82. Thats what I told the malcontents when Obama extended the Bush tax cuts to the Koch Brothers.

But the blind liberals would not believe me.

They hate balance.