What the hell is going on?

[Onlooker]

Has Obama lost his mind? Is he being blackmailed? Has he been brainwashed? Has he been a right wing plant all along? If this is not part of some grand strategic plan to get something better, then, my god, someone needs to primary Obama. He's lost his soul.

The plan screws with Social Security, reduces the mortgage deduction (great timing, huh?), reduces the tax benefits of saving for retirement and charitable giving. In addition to that:

http://news.yahoo.com/bipartisan-tax-plan-trims-mortgage-deduction-191345875.html

The plan would simplify the tax code by reducing the number of tax brackets from six to three, lowering the top rate from 35 percent to somewhere between 23 percent and 29 percent. That could provide a windfall for wealthy taxpayers because the 35 percent tax bracket currently applies to taxable income above $379,150.

[atreides1]

1. Well

1. Is possible.
2. Also possible
3. Looks like it.
4. Very Likely.

[golfguru]

2. Still lot better than the Teabagger bill passed by House n/t

[no limit]

10. You can't possibly be serious in suggesting that this would be acceptable.

[golfguru]

37. Please explain how Obama gets a better bill with House

having solid teabagger majority?????

Surely he can veto this bill, but then the Treasury defaults
come Aug 2nd.

If the House does not go along with this gang of 6 bill,
they will be tarred and feathered as the cause of default.

[michaz]

26. It may be "Better" but not at all acceptable. n/t

[golfguru]

64. OK, but there was an election in 2010

and Teabaggers have control of the House. So how exactly
do you propose the president can ram through a bill which
will be to your liking?

[Dawgs]

87. Leadership. n/t

[golfguru]

89. Lot's of luck! n/t

[Dept of Beer]

31. Getting one hand lopped off is definitely better

than having two lopped off, but when neither needs to go why sharpen the crazy axe?

[Cannikin]

3. I'm admitting to myself that the President is not the highest authority in this country.

And perhaps far from it. I don't even think they know it until they get there.

[Solomon]

88. You said it. Some of them fight against it to the point of

getting tombstoned, some of them do what little they can for us, and some of them wallow in it likes pigs in slop, all to happy to carry out the agenda.

[5X]

4. Reads like a republican wet dream.

What do we get out of it?

[NorthCarolina]

5. Right wing plant is possible. Elect a Republican posing as a Democrat, and see how far Democrats

will follow that President to the right before they realize they've been played.

[MissDeeds]

27. I agree

Just by virtue of not being Bush or McCain-Palin, Obama has been given enough rope to hang us. Excuse after excuse has been made to try to cover his choices, but the writing is on the wall. He isn't moving to the right, he' there - and perhaps always has been. If Obama wins, we lose. If he loses, we lose. Sorry, but it's simply not good enough. We can't endure four more years of failed leadership.

[Name removed]

33. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[OHdem10]

6. Obama is a "New" Democrat (DLC, Third Way Centrist) and the

DLC controls the Party, Policy whatever. These
are DLC Policies.

[ClarkUSA]

9. That's a false statement. President Obama rejected the DLC while still a Senator.

[no limit]

11. Are you personally for or against raising the retirement age for social security?

[Name removed]

14. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

16. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[no limit]

17. Are you personally for or against raising the retirement age for social security?

[Name removed]

18. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ClarkUSA]

23. I believe in the Democratic Party's and this liberal Democratic President's legislative efforts...

... as opposed to PUMAs and freeper trolls, who are always against whatever President Obama is for... or more likely, busy making up lies 24/7 in order to better attack President Obama from the left so as to divide and conquer Democrats come the general election.

[ClarkUSA]

20. I am not interested in far-fetched hypotheticals. When you have facts to offer, let me know.

[NorthCarolina]

40. Dodge...but not particularly a clever one.

It's OK, you can admit that you prefer cuts to Social Security and Medicare just as much as the next New Dem. or GOPer. I promise you that nobody here on DU will be even the least bit surprised at your admission.

[ClarkUSA]

43. Why are you making a personal attack against me? Are you sore because I proved you wrong AGAIN?

[NorthCarolina]

47. I know it's the truth. That's why I'm not sure why you don't just cop to it. n/t

[ClarkUSA]

50. Yes, it's the truth that you made a personal attack against me.

[NorthCarolina]

54. Calling a spade a spade is a personal attack now? Get a life please. n/t

[ClarkUSA]

58. That's another personal attack. Do you enjoy denigrating Obama supporters?

[no limit]

44. What facts? I simply asked you a question about your personal opinion on a matter

are you personally for or against raising the retirement age for social security? Again, I am simply asking for your personal opinion on this matter.

[ClarkUSA]

49. "what facts?" Exactly... what facts are you referring to?

[no limit]

51. I am asking you a simple question. How could you possibly not understand what Im asking you?

Are you, ClarkUSA, personally for or against raising the retirement age for social security. This has nothing to do with Obama, this has nothing to do with anyone but you. Where do YOU personally stand on the issue of raising the retirement age for social security?

[ClarkUSA]

53. Here's my opinion of your nagging me for an opinion. ---->

:boring:






:rofl:

[no limit]

56. I don't think I need to say anymore. Have a good one.

[NorthCarolina]

57. To tell you the truth would break his/her "cover". Your question was perfectly clear

such that any 5 year old would correctly understand what was being asked. Unless of course, that 5 year old had something to hide.

[ClarkUSA]

59. What "cover" are you referring to? I don't need a "cover" to be an Obama supporter at DU.

Perhaps you thought you were at another website where a "cover" is needed in order to be an Obama supporter?

:sarcasm:

[tekisui]

82. They may be suggesting that you are not at liberty to post your

personal opinions. For one reason or another.

[secondwind]

46. AMEN.

[NorthCarolina]

32. Give it up will ya please. Obama himself has declared that he is a New Dem. n/t

[ClarkUSA]

34. Why are once again stating that falsehood when I proved you wrong once already on another OP?

He rejected the New Democrats aka. the DLC:

“I am not currently, nor have I ever been, a member of the DLC,” said Obama, in a statement that substantially reflects a telephone conversation with Associate Editor Bruce Dixon, this weekend.

http://www.blackcommentator.com/48/48_cover.html

Ben Smith of Politico knows this fact:

"The DLC sought for a time to identify itself with Obama's message and his campaign, but found itself relatively unwelcome there and the final move cements its place as a central force in Clintonism and the Clinton historical record."

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0711/DLC_records_to_Clinton_Foundation.html

[NorthCarolina]

38. In your dreams. n/t

[ClarkUSA]

41. In my dreams, all PUMAs, freeper trolls, and Koch Bros. funded astroturf would not be insane.

Unfortunately, liberal Democratic supporters of this liberal President have to deal with their whacko attacks every day.

[NorthCarolina]

45. This "Liberal" President?

:rofl:

My, my, my...you truly ARE disconnected aren't you. What color is the sky in your world?

[ClarkUSA]

55. Yes, I am "disconnected" from the world of PUMAs, freeper trolls, and paid Koch Bros. astroturf.

That explains my affinity for facts as opposed to personal attacks against Obama supporters at a forum for Democrats.

[PassingFair]

80. Then won as a "Progressive" and immediately packed his cabinet with DLC people.

Obama's candidacy was a Hobson's Choice.

The DLC got LUCKY with Edwards, as he
couldn't hide the scumbag that he is,
ensuring no option but DLC.

[tekisui]

81. Yet stacked his cabinet with DLCers.

[QC]

91. He just hired all of 'em so that he could keep an eye on 'em

and make 'em take his orders.

Remember that one?

[babylonsister]

22. Maybe you missed this?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=433&topic_id=701476

[Palmer Eldritch]

67. Why make up complete bullshit?

[Faryn Balyncd]

7. K and R

[TBMASE]

8. Well, now, we can't have the taxpayers subsidizing peoples homes

anymore than we should have the taxpayers subsidizing oil companies.

[Kaleva]

12. If it eliminates deductions on 2nd homes and caps deductions for McMansions, I'm fine with it.

[TBMASE]

15. why subsidize anyone's home? They bought it, they pay for it

1st home, 2nd home, straw, sticks or bricks, stop demanding taxpayers foot the bill

[customerserviceguy]

68. Same here

And as far as charitable contributions go, if you want to give to some worthy organization, or some snake-oil church, do it out of your own pocket.

[tex-wyo-dem]

70. Why provide tax breaks on mortgages? Because...

It makes home ownership more affordable to more people, and home ownership is good for the overall social and economic conditions, that's why. In short, we all benefit from more people being able to own property, which adds to the overall wealth base rather than the wealth base of a few landlords.

Anymore questions? Because I can expand on this.

[TBMASE]

74. Yeah, we heard that same reasoning when subprimes became all the rage

[bornskeptic]

86. Most taxpayers in the bottom 60% of the income range get little or no benefit

from the home mortgage interest deduction, because they don't have enough deductions to itemize, or if they do it's only by a small amount, and then they're just subsidized for 15 cents on the dollar, while the wealthy are subsidized for 35 cents on the dollar. All itemized deductions should be eliminated. If, for example, we want to encourage home ownership, we should kill the itemized deduction and replace it with a 20% credit, and put a reasonable limit on the amount of interest to which it applies. That would be far mor progressive, do much more to enable home ownership, and would also result in a big increase in revenue.

[Mojorabbit]

30. I read on an earlier thread there is some fine print ro beware of. nt

[Kaleva]

36. Yes, most of us are just guessing right now.

[golfguru]

39. Exactly....capping deductions for McMansions won't hurt poor

or even the middle class.

[Andy823]

13. Well

Since there is no way in hell that republicans in the house are going to agree with "ANYTHING" the president says looks good, and they won't vote for "ANYTHING" with any kind of revenue increases by way of taking away "ANYTHING" from the rich, I really don't know why people are getting so angry over something that simply will make the republicans look bad, and something that the president will NEVER have to sign into law anyway!

The more the republicans fight "ANY" plan that would make the president look good, like the adult in the room, the more the majority of americans are going to see them for what they really are, bought and paid for by the rich and big corporations! Needless to say the more they are seen for what they really are, the better chance we have of seeing republicans getting voted out of office in 2012!

[woolldog]

19. Just the fact that the President is toying with this idea,

the fact that he's even considered it, is depressing.

[woolldog]

21. I love one of the comments after the article:

"Looks like we've been gang banged"

that's how I feel after reading the proposal from the gang of 6

:rofl:

[Igel]

24. A mortgage deduction on the first $500k of your mortgage isn't enough?

How big, exactly, *is* your mortgage? Over $500k?

[golfguru]

42. +1000

[NorthCarolina]

25. Lost his mind? No. Showing his true allegiance? Yes. n/t

[ClarkUSA]

35. What "his true allegiance?"

[ClarkUSA]

62. Why are you dodging my question? Why don't you just cop to it?

[NorthCarolina]

78. His true allegiance should be obvious to any non-comatose individual...

Wall Street.

[MissDeeds]

28. K&R

:kick:

[ProSense]

29. Which one is

is Obama:

http://l.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/AyJshZAOqfJr7iFxFMGYPQ--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7Zmk9aW5zZXQ7aD00NzA7cT04NTt3PTUxMg--/

When did the Gang of Six proposal become Obama's?

[elocs]

48. This would be a good time for the ardent "my President can do no wrong" to come out of hiding

and proudly explain to us mere mortals what is going on here and why we should simply chill out and unquestioningly trust Obama.

[NorthCarolina]

52. Now THAT would be a mistake. Isn't this the President that solicited the public to Hold His Feet

to the Fire? Was that just more puffery?

[elocs]

60. It would be a mistake to ask them if they really know what he is doing?

Why? Supposedly they would be the ones with the reasonable answers for us.

[Name removed]

77. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[sofa king]

85. You rang?

Yeah, I've got a couple of things to say, all right:

1) The President can say or do anything he wants, publicly. None of it matters because the deliberations are going on in Congress, over which the President has no direct, public influence other than the stated threat of veto. That influence is not important until the final, closed negotiations begin in conference on a bill that has yet to be completed, and has been voted upon by nobody. The bill will change dramatically in conference. That's the only thing anyone can guarantee.

2) The public details of the compromise are simply the right-wing media organ desperately trying to wheeze out one last propaganda victory--and it's working, judging by the reactions of many of you.

3) What's going to happen in the back room is the Republicans are going to be presented with some extremely distasteful choices, because they have no way to win. If they shut down the government, President Obama assumes the near-dictatorial powers that the Republican Congress happily turned over to Dick Cheney and George Bush, in the event of an emergency, which the shutdown automatically creates, or a "threat," which is undefined and ever-present. In the meantime, big money will be directing the GOP to roll over now, and the leadership will listen. And privately, the President will suggest that if they don't do what he wants, the octopus tendrils of law enforcement will begin feeling out dozens of criminal scandals in which the Republican Congress freely participated during the Bush years.

So they will take whatever they can get and pretend to like it. And anything they get will be reversible before it goes into effect, so long as the Democrats maintain the current political status or improve it through the next election.

This entire charade is actually being presented upside-down, because it's secretly the Democrats who have the most to gain from a shutdown. Publicly, they can maintain the image of vulnerability, so that the Republicans take the blame for any hardship that is actually visited upon the people. Then, when the timing is just right, the Republicans will be clobbered. The one favor we're granting them at this point is that the details of the beat-down will be obscured by the back-room door.

[CakeGrrl]

61. Come back when this is finalized and signed. -nt

[WingDinger]

63. Wrote a song about it, and it goes like this

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x1535450

[Name removed]

65. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[CakeGrrl]

72. So you won't be here when he's the nominee in 2012, then? -nt

[Palmer Eldritch]

66. in 2 weeks you'll be looking for a new outrage.

[Honeycombe8]

69. Looks like people don't have to look that hard. nt

[Palmer Eldritch]

71. Not when there are so many imaginary things they can pull out of their asses.

[Honeycombe8]

73. There you go, again. nt

[tekisui]

83. Welcome back to DU!

[treestar]

93. So true.

So very, very true. :hi:

[blkmusclmachine]

75. The WH is burnishing its GOP creds:

This $h!t's been happening for awhile. The GOP has gone "off the reservation," so the sane (relatively speaking) ones beat a path to the DEM Party, infecting it with "New Dem's," "Blue Dogs," "DINO'S," and the "New Way/DLC" hacks, and forced out the Liberals/Progressives. Today's DEM Party is now a clone of the 80's GOP.

[Tennessee Gal]

76. There are some extremist posts here. Look at the details.

From the article:

The Gang of Six plan does not specify how the tax breaks would be trimmed. Democrats have several proposals that would restrict wealthy families' use of the breaks, while preserving them for most low- and middle-income taxpayers. Such a plan would offset rate cuts for high-income families by limiting their ability to take advantage of various tax breaks.

For example, current law allows homeowners to deduct the interest they pay on home mortgages of up to $1 million. One proposal would lower the limit to $500,000 and exclude mortgage interest on second homes.

Starting in 2018, the new health care law would tax high-priced health insurance plans. There are several proposals to adjust the tax to include more health plans while sparing lower-income families with more modest coverage.

~snip~

I see nothing at all wrong with this.

[woo me with science]

79. ...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x1534784

[woo me with science]

84. You are arguing on the Orwell board.

War is Peace.
Freedom is Slavery.
Ignorance is Strength.
Obama didn't endorse the Gang of Six plan. (He only praised it.)
No benefit cuts have happened yet. (but I won't say if I support them)
Chained CPI is not a cut.
The chocolate ration has been increased.

[polichick]

94. Really, it's been fascinating to watch how it happens.

[Recursion]

90. It also undoes the Bush tax cuts and makes the doctor fix permanent

I love how the Obama-can-do-no-right crowd gloss over that...

[treestar]

92. There is a Republican Congress, that is what is going on

And a possible default on the debt. That is what you'd prefer?

I swear this board is insane. Living in a no reality land where there are no Republicans, it appears.