ProSense
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Fri Jul-22-11 02:06 PM
Original message |
What if President Obama doesn't cut Social Security and Medicaid |
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Does that mean he had no intention to do so, and the reports were all wrong?
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Enrique
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Fri Jul-22-11 02:09 PM
Response to Original message |
1. it might mean that, it might mean something else |
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Sat Jul-23-11 01:30 PM
Response to Reply #1 |
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Big Blue Marble
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Fri Jul-22-11 02:09 PM
Response to Original message |
2. No, it means he was stopped |
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by courageous members of our party that were willing to stand by the values that made this party and this country strong.
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ProSense
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Fri Jul-22-11 02:12 PM
Response to Reply #2 |
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Edited on Fri Jul-22-11 02:12 PM by ProSense
"No, it means he was stopped by courageous members of our party that were willing to stand by the values that made this party and this country strong."
...if he cuts these programs (say raises the retirement age), will it mean the "courageous members of our party" failed to stand by the values that made this party and this country strong"?
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Big Blue Marble
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Fri Jul-22-11 02:21 PM
Response to Reply #4 |
9. It means that the Democratic Party is finished. |
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There were not enough who would stand for the values that defined the party for four generations. What would the party have left to offer? Democratic Brand: We are not the crazy Republicans. Vote for us.
That is a winning strategy that will care this party forward for the next four generations.:sarcasm:
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Fri Jul-22-11 02:13 PM
Response to Reply #2 |
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vaberella
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Fri Jul-22-11 02:49 PM
Response to Reply #2 |
18. You really believe this? |
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Because it seemed Pelosi and a good number of Dems were handing support to the gang of six.
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Big Blue Marble
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Fri Jul-22-11 02:57 PM
Response to Reply #18 |
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Check that link. It would seem Pelosi is looking for a simpler way out.
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Sat Jul-23-11 01:31 PM
Response to Reply #2 |
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dennis4868
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Fri Jul-22-11 02:10 PM
Response to Original message |
3. NOBODY KNOWS WHAT THE FACTS ARE... |
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not even most dems in congress....that's why we need to STOP THE HYPERSPECULATION until we know what a final deal says....i learned early on with Obama that he is a damn good chess player...he will show you one move but it's meant to have an effect 10 moves down the road...you cannot get all emotional and angry because one move that he makes....
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FLyellowdog
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Fri Jul-22-11 02:12 PM
Response to Reply #3 |
Big Blue Marble
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Fri Jul-22-11 02:27 PM
Response to Reply #3 |
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One person does not get to decide to offer up the most precious aspects of this country in secret "negotiation" in a democracy without blowback. Get used to it.
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dennis4868
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Fri Jul-22-11 03:32 PM
Response to Reply #11 |
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it is a problem...the weak dems can't get their act together in congress and dump their problems on Obama...
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bornskeptic
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Fri Jul-22-11 04:00 PM
Response to Reply #11 |
30. President Obama doesn't have the power to cut anything, |
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so it's ridiculous to claim he's giving away anything in secret negotiations. All he has the power to agree on is a proposl, which still would have to be passed by Congress, and which would have to be made public before that.
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Big Blue Marble
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Fri Jul-22-11 04:21 PM
Response to Reply #30 |
33. Actually, that is the way it should work. |
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That is the way it is suppose to work in a democratic society. At, least sort of. In the past, when big legislative policy changes were afoot, they were discussed in congressional hearings and thoroughly and publicly aired. They were not changed in high-pressure back room secret deals then shoved down Congress's throat at the last minute with high pressure threats and scare tactics.
But that is how it is done these days. And every time this happens, I assure that you, like the rest of us, will lose.
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vaberella
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Fri Jul-22-11 02:50 PM
Response to Reply #3 |
20. That's exactly right. There is way too much mixed information. |
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One article comes out positive, another negative and people's emotions are see-sawing. But those who hate Obama will jump on it and those who love him become more ambivalent.
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Politicalboi
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Fri Jul-22-11 03:25 PM
Response to Reply #3 |
25. If we hadn't been screwed about the |
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Public Option then maybe we would see things different. I don't want to believe Obama is going to cut Medicare, SS or Medicaid, but he just might. This "Shared Sacrifice" is bullshit. The rich should pay more taxes. I'm trying to not get all worked up possibly over nothing, but after the health care mess I worry about it. He gives the Rupukes things they don't even ask for.
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dennis4868
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Fri Jul-22-11 03:31 PM
Response to Reply #25 |
26. Well who screwed you regarding the public option... |
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it was DINOs and repubs in congress so back off of Obama on that...put the blame where it belongs!
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JoePhilly
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Fri Jul-22-11 02:14 PM
Response to Original message |
7. The Outrage Machinie will drop this topic and move on. |
TheWraith
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Fri Jul-22-11 02:28 PM
Response to Reply #7 |
12. Just like they dropped the last fifty or sixty such. nt |
shellgame26
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Sat Jul-23-11 02:24 AM
Response to Reply #7 |
Jakes Progress
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Sat Jul-23-11 12:45 PM
Response to Reply #7 |
44. And those of blind faith will ignore this attack from within |
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and move on to deny other WH outrages.
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TheKentuckian
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Sat Jul-23-11 03:52 PM
Response to Reply #7 |
51. I won't be dropping this one ever unless I see a fucking Scrooge after the ghosts |
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Saul on the road to Damascus, fucking night to day change on these programs. He has been promoting right wing nonsense and steadily pushing Republican oriented "change" to these programs hard but keeping short of privatization.
Further, there is no win minus the unimportant portrayal of the President as "the adult in the room" and long obvious and recently bragged about TeaPubliKlan intransigence. These points aren't breaking news.
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Tarheel_Dem
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Sat Jul-23-11 07:38 PM
Response to Reply #7 |
52. Exactly. I think the president has taken his own advice. He has tuned out... |
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the "columnists"; the "blogs"; the "activists" the "radio talk show hosts", and for that I say Bravo! :applause:
If the other side doesn't take heed to this wise advice, it'll be to their own peril, and that's as good an outcome as any.
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politicasista
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Fri Jul-22-11 02:17 PM
Response to Original message |
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Edited on Fri Jul-22-11 02:35 PM by politicasista
probably no answers in flamefests. :shrug: Peace.
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earthside
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Fri Jul-22-11 02:27 PM
Response to Original message |
10. No, it doesn't mean that. |
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All it may mean is that the trial balloons got shot down by regular Americans who want Social Security and Medicare untouched.
It doesn't mean that the reports "were all wrong" ... it means that the Obama White House was at least thinking about those kinds of cuts.
Frankly, if Pres. Obama had just drawn his line in the sand and built a brick wall over that line with a big sign on it that said "Clean Debt Ceiling Bill. Period . ... well, we wouldn't be in this mess.
And it is a mess -- because no one except a small circle of about a hundred insiders has any idea what the hell is going on. I don't like this secretive negotiating as if we, the plain ol' American people, are too stupid to understand what the President and the Speaker and the Senate Leader and their lackies and aids are negotiating about.
Frankly, I'm sick of all this -- I'd like the President to come out and tell us exactly what he wants and what he will accept and that he'll veto anything else. All that we are getting out of this fiasco now is a view of a totally incompetent and dysfunctional federal government.
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mzmolly
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Fri Jul-22-11 02:30 PM
Response to Original message |
13. It means that DU saved the seniors! |
flamingdem
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Fri Jul-22-11 02:31 PM
Response to Reply #13 |
Jakes Progress
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Sat Jul-23-11 12:46 PM
Response to Reply #13 |
45. Most of us did our part. |
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Though some would stay silent until the New Democrat deal was done.
Good on DU.
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mzmolly
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Sat Jul-23-11 01:27 PM
Response to Reply #45 |
46. I too have signed every petition that has come my way. |
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Yes, we should to our part.
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slay
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Fri Jul-22-11 02:42 PM
Response to Original message |
15. What if he was actually a good leader. |
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Edited on Fri Jul-22-11 03:01 PM by slay
can play what if all day.. :eyes:
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ProSense
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Fri Jul-22-11 02:45 PM
Response to Reply #15 |
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are the chances you'd admit it?
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Jakes Progress
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Fri Jul-22-11 02:48 PM
Response to Original message |
17. That would be a good thing. |
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As for your last sentence, you often berate posters for projecting motives and thoughts so you might have to suffer your own snark. How would you know what his intentions are or were?
It's a goose and gander thing.
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Wait Wut
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Fri Jul-22-11 02:50 PM
Response to Original message |
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It means he hates DUers and was just trying to stir up trouble!
Or, yeah...it does. Do you think maybe we should wait until we get the facts before reacting? I'd agree, but...damn...some of those pseudo-facts are sooooooooo convincing!!
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JTFrog
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Fri Jul-22-11 02:52 PM
Response to Original message |
21. The goalposts move again. n/t |
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Sat Jul-23-11 01:32 PM
Response to Reply #21 |
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n2doc
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Fri Jul-22-11 02:54 PM
Response to Original message |
22. That would be fine, great |
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But how does he get 3 trillion dollars in cuts without doing so? I haven't heard of significant (>5%) cuts in the military, nothing in DHS.
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swilton
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Sat Jul-23-11 10:04 PM
Response to Reply #22 |
54. He could start for openers |
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by letting the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy expire rather than extending them as he did this past year.
He could bring troops home from Iraq and Afghanistan and close the imperialist military base presence overseas - do we need more military bases and to protect us from whom?
He could make medical care available for all.
He could end subsidies for the oil and agricultural (big corn) industries
The only people who have this President's ear are his buddies on Wall Street and these are the people to whom he is listening.
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BlueIris
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Fri Jul-22-11 03:02 PM
Response to Original message |
24. To me, it would mean a colossal failure of leadership, poor communication with the Party, |
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Edited on Fri Jul-22-11 03:02 PM by BlueIris
(and the public) and a man who has lost so much credibility that no one can tell what he wants to do or will do at all anymore.
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golfguru
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Fri Jul-22-11 03:35 PM
Response to Original message |
28. Different animals...social security is not broke, medicaid will soon be |
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Edited on Fri Jul-22-11 04:07 PM by golfguru
according to non-partisan government agency reports.
Social security should be fixed by removing the upper limit for FICA tax. That will sustain it for 75 more years.
Don't know much about medicaid since never used it, but I am on medicare and it is already defunct. I can't find a doctor in my town who will accept new medicare patients. Only clinics catering to medicaid patients are accepting new medicare patients. I might as well drop out of the part B.
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awoke_in_2003
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Fri Jul-22-11 03:57 PM
Response to Original message |
29. If Social Security and Medicaid are not cut... |
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his re-election chances are much better. As to his initial intentions- impossible to tell. He is, after all, a politician- he might believe they need cut (or not), but can be swayed by public outcry. You never really know what anyone in DC is truly thinking- you can only judge their actions.
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Fri Jul-22-11 04:05 PM
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Proles
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Fri Jul-22-11 04:13 PM
Response to Original message |
32. It's hard to really say anymore. |
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President Obama has proved to be just like any other politician, so it's really hard to know exactly where he stands.
I'd like to believe that deep down, he's truly disgusted at the prospect of cuts to SS, MM, or MC -- but then why not just come out and say that?
But if it turns out that no cuts are made, then I will resume to having a cautious optimism for Obama.
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Dr Fate
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Fri Jul-22-11 04:52 PM
Response to Original message |
34. Whatever does or does not happen, Obama will have done the right thing. |
Jakes Progress
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Fri Jul-22-11 10:03 PM
Response to Original message |
35. Whew. It looks like Obama won't cut SS. Because the republicans walked out. |
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Thank goodness for the stupidity of republicans.
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ProSense
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Fri Jul-22-11 10:06 PM
Response to Reply #35 |
38. "Thank goodness for the stupidity of republicans." |
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And to think that so many people were hyping their genius!
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Jakes Progress
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Fri Jul-22-11 10:19 PM
Response to Reply #38 |
Jakes Progress
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Fri Jul-22-11 10:04 PM
Response to Original message |
36. Now we know that he intended to cut SS and Medicaid. He just told us so. |
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So are you okay with that. Would offering up SS be okay with you?
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ProSense
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Fri Jul-22-11 10:05 PM
Response to Reply #36 |
Jakes Progress
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Fri Jul-22-11 10:22 PM
Response to Reply #37 |
40. You're right. He did say he would cut SS. |
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Edited on Fri Jul-22-11 10:22 PM by Jakes Progress
Right there in the link you provided. Of course that is only a partial transcript of the evening. He brought up his offering this to republicans several times.
But your link will do:
"We then offered an additional $650 billion in cuts to entitlement programs -- Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security."
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Forkboy
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Sat Jul-23-11 12:08 AM
Response to Original message |
41. I'll be fucking thrilled, and you guys are all invited over for a shindig, my treat. |
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What will you do if he does cut them?
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ZombieHorde
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Sat Jul-23-11 01:27 AM
Response to Original message |
42. According to many posts I have read, President Obama has already cut SS and Medicaid. |
Jakes Progress
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Sat Jul-23-11 03:35 PM
Response to Original message |
50. Does this mean you are reading the president's mind? |
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Are you trying to say that what someone does is a good indication of what's in his mind and what his intentions are?
You complain when others do that. But I will just bookmark this so that we can both remember when you thought it was a good way to go.
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WiffenPoof
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Sat Jul-23-11 08:55 PM
Response to Original message |
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No Democratic President should EVER float such an idea. Just by putting such a notion of cutting entitlements on the table, the President has put into the minds of the American people and body politic that they should at least be "looked at." In the future, such a notion is now to be considered. As far as I'm concerned, the damage has already been done.
-P
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