I think the President is boxed into a corner he may not escape.

[Tennessee Gal]

Reid's plan may pass the Senate, but .....

Will the radical Republicans in Congress come to their senses and vote for it? I don't think so because their primary goal is to make this an issue through the 2012 election. The longer term extension component in Reid's plan is unacceptable to them. They don't give a rat's rear that it is bad for the country. All they care about is power and their deep seeded hatred of President Obama. That was obvious by the lies of Boehner in his speech last night. It was also obvious in other interviews like Lawrence O'Donnell's calling out of Marsha Blackburn. She would not stop her yapping and spewing of lies when confronted with facts. None of them will. They believe they have the President right where they want him and they will not relent under any circumstance unless ..... the American people force them to. I just don't think that is going to happen.

So, I think that Congress may pass a version of the Reid plan with the requirement that the debt ceiling has to be addressed again in 6 months. President Obama will then have to sign it because he cannot let this country default. We will then face this disaster all over again.

[Bluzmann57]

1. I think Obama is a helluva lot smarter than gthe repukes

And he knows it. I think that somewhere inside his brain, there isw a plan to solve this thing and rip into the repukes who do not work with him.
Now whether that message gets spread or not is another question. Entirely too many people get "info" from fox noise, limbaugh, and the like.

[Tennessee Gal]

2. I agree that he is a lot smarter.

I hope he has a plan in mind. I have no idea what that plan could be. And I have no idea why he did not give us a hint in his speech last night. If he is counting on the American people to pressure the right wing teabagger fruitcakes into doing the right thing, he may get disappointed. After all they were elected in their districts, which is incomprehensible to me. It is, as you say, directly related to the media and the likes of Limbaugh, Hannity, etc.

[rocktivity]

3. Exactly what does the 14th amendment say?

Section 4. The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. But neither the United States nor any State shall assume or pay any debt or obligation incurred in aid of insurrection or rebellion against the United States, or any claim for the loss or emancipation of any slave; but all such debts, obligations and claims shall be held illegal and void.

Section 5. The Congress shall have power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article.

Could what Congress is doing be considered an act of insurrection?

:headbang:
rocktivity

[Tennessee Gal]

4. Congress is not asking that a debt be paid in insurrection.

Congress is taking us to the brink of not paying our debts. So, it appears to me that they are violating the first sentence.

[doc03]

6. Would it matter, Obama wouldn't put up a fight if they

violated every law of the land.

[sweetapogee]

7. section 5

section 5 answers your question. Also, I don't see the words president there. We would be making this point plain as day if a puke were the president.

Another point I wish to make relative to the OP is this; I and a few others here in the run up to the 2010 elections made the comment that we dems would rue the day that we didn't have a budget in place before those elections. This made the budget a very real (and unnecessary) factor in that election. By agreeing to a 6 month compromise with the pukes as expressed in the OP, dems will walk right into that same trap next year, i.e. six monts from now puts us into the 2012 election year. So I say drink the poison now and get it over with. Others may disagree, and that is their right but this is how I see it.

What we need to do is focus all of our efforts into getting the economy out of the shit-can. Time is running out. If we don't, well it (Nov 6, 2012) is going to be depressing for us.

[doc03]

5. Oh brother, if he is so smart why is SS, Medicare and

Medicaid even on the table in the first place. He has put himself in a corner and no matter what the final outcome the Republicans have won, it is just by how much now.

[Tennessee Gal]

8. None of that is in the Reid plan. nt

[doc03]

21. Are you positive no SS, Medicare and Medicaid cuts are

in the Reid plan? I find it extremely hard to believe you can cut that much without touching the big three.

[killbotfactory]

23. SS Medicare and Medicaid are untouched in Reids plan.

A lot of the savings in the next few years will be from just ending the goddamned wars.

[Enrique]

9. he could get himself out of the corner

with the Constitution.

[doc03]

22. He already ruled that out didn't he? n/t

[Proud Liberal Dem]

10. I somehow don't think the Republicans really want another fight over this in 6 months

At least, they shouldn't want it IMHO. Their polling on this stinks, the public is getting worked up about this, and the markets are surely frazzled now and they will be again in six months when we go through this again. The Republicans may think that they've got something they can use to attack Obama over in the midst of the 2012 election but they seem to fail to realize that it could hurt them (and their presumptive nominee) as bad as if not even worse than President Obama. President Obama can bash them for making the country go through this again and point out that he wanted a longer extension and pin any ongoing economic doldrums on the uncertainty in the market caused by Republican intransigence on this issue. Also, the Republican Presidential candidates and/or the presumptive Republican nominee is almost certainly going to have to stake out a potentially damaging position on the issue as well. This may not be a political "goldmine" for them that they think it will be IMHO, however, regardless, it's still something that we really shouldn't be forced to have endure again in six short months. :shrug:

[Tennessee Gal]

11. Apparently they don't care about polling.

I watched Lawrence O'Donnell throw polling at Marsha Blackburn last night. She just went on with her right wing thuggery lying.

[Proud Liberal Dem]

14. I know but they ignore the polls at their own peril

n/t

[marlakay]

17. Its almost like they are on a suicide mission

they are 100% brainwashed into their thinking...

[Enrique]

12. i think they would like this non-stop

they're getting what they want.

[Proud Liberal Dem]

13. Like what? Ryancare?

Full-scale Social Security privatization? ACA repeal? Sure, they're going to get some cuts and will likely prevent any tax increases but the Democrats are never going to go for any of the aforementioned things that they TRULY want. The ONLY way they're going to get any of those things is if they win the WH and control both the House and the Senate.

[Enrique]

15. that's a good point

the GOP is not getting everything they want, the dems are blocking some of their agenda.

[Tennessee Gal]

16. That is exactly what they want. Control of everything.

And they will do anything to obtain it, including lying and forcing this nation into a financial crisis.

[Proud Liberal Dem]

18. Yup

However, I just don't see any way that they're going to escape at least some portion of the blame for it. They're delusional enough to believe that they will but they can't/won't IMHO, not when they made a fully conscious (and public) choice to pick a fight over something routine that's never been fought over like this before. It's a good sign IMHO that a good majority of people STILL blame Bush/GOP more for the ongoing economic mess than they do President Obama (though how anybody thinks he deserves much blame at all after having only been in office for less than 3 years escapes me).

[Tennessee Gal]

19. The may get some of the blame, but apparently they are willing

to risk it. In fact, they seem to relish the fight as long as they can make Obama look bad. I just don't get it.

[Name removed]

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