Congratulations. Compromise is now a bad word.

[Armstead]

Compromise has always been the glue that makes us human and civilized. We need it to survive.

America is based on compromise. Civilization is based on compromise. Personal interactions are based on compromise.

Speaking personally, I have always believed strongly that compromise and the "middle path" is the answer to most all problems on the individual level and the macro level.

But President Obama and too many of our Democratic leaders have managed to do the impossible. They have made Compromise a code word for Surrender. They have made Compromise a tool for the bad to extort EVERYTHING they want from the good.

They have changed the definition of compromise from "two way negotiation" into "one-side gets everything, while the other side gets nothing."

Never thought it would happen, but my skin now crawls whenever I hear that word these days.

[Loge23]

1. We did all the "compromising".

The end game will feature the usual disgusting tableau of scum from both sides of the aisle shaking hands and smiling.
The Great Deal has been reached!
....and not a drop of revenue in site.

[CakeGrrl]

2. Among his other 'failures': POTUS now ruins the English language.

:evilgrin:

[Armstead]

9. I realize there is sarcasm there....But he has managed to ruin that one word for many of us

[treestar]

34. That's from Du, blame DU not Obama

DU has ruined the word "disappointment" for me. Also the words, "capitulation" "caving" "weak" and "bully pulpit."

[Armstead]

44. Well, you now have Compromise to console you

[treestar]

46. Well so you have capitulation

My point was that it is DU that overuses the words. And maybe some other sites.

[Armstead]

47. In the case of Compromise, DU had nothing to do with it

Whenever I hear Obama or some other Democrats use it my skin crawls and I get an automatic sense of dread, because of the incorrect meaning they use it.

That has nothing to do with its usage at DU.

What is even worse from a personal perspective, is that I have always belueved in the concept of balance --still do, but the current usage is NOT balance

[treestar]

50. Even Bush might have used that word

Anyone who said it was a terrible word would never get elected.

Every issue should constitute a game of chicken or a war, we understand.

[Armstead]

59. Tghat's a false dichotomy -- There is also...

..basic intelligent tactics as an alternative.

WE keep allowing ourselves to get backed into corners like this. There is a reason for that.

[ZombieHorde]

31. Let's compromise and say he only ruined half the English language. nt

[Armstead]

35. Sounds like a deal....We'll set aside debate of Hope and Change for now

[boppers]

67. If we say Obama's only ruined half the English language, we've given republicans EVERYTHING.

EVERYTHING.

[treestar]

33. LOL.

And OP is trying to get "surrender" to mean "compromise."

The whole thing is dumb because politics is not war. War happens when politics break down.

It's not a pitched battle between Congress and and opposing President. A Congress can be described as powerless and weak, since via the veto, a President can reject everything they do.

The Republicans should be calling the House weak and saying they've surrendered because they can't get Obama to sign a bill eliminating Social Security. That would be the same logic operating.

[Armstead]

38. That last sentence is exactly what Democrats do to rationalize failure

[treestar]

41. What failure? Doesn't logic apply to Republicans?

If we are caving every time we make a compromise, why aren't the republicans?

Do you really think the Republican House doesn't want things they know Obama would veto?

This double standard is usually applied by Republicans to themselves.

[Armstead]

42. It is all a matter of degree...

The teabaggers (and other Republicans) may get a few points shaved off what they rsally want. But they are getting the framework, and most of the numbers they want -- and have pushed the government even further to the right, Maybe they didn't extort the whole dollar, but ther got the Democrats to give up most of it.

And more importantly, they delivered a mortal wound to government liberalism -- with the active help of Obama and the rest of the Corporate Conservative Democrats.

[ProSense]

3. Wrong

The only compromises that are bad are the ones Obama is involved with: like signing historic health care legislation after 100 years of attempts or Wall Street reform and establishing the first-ever CFPB.

Dirty, filthy "compromise."

[Armstead]

10. Not true.....as usual yoiu are being myopic

[msongs]

14. umm these are all choices the guy makes, he is not a helpless victim in any of this nt

[HankyDubs]

55. a historic victory for health insurance companies

and establishing a regulatory agency with no leader and no power.

[Warren Stupidity]

4. A compromise requires both parties to act in good faith.

This is capitulation, willful capitulation.

[Armstead]

11. That is my point.

[awoke_in_2003]

32. or collusion. nt

[woo me with science]

5. +1 This was collusion being sold as compromise. nt

[derby378]

6. America was based on REVOLUTION, not compromise

If there was real compromise, we'd still be a British colony and Boston Harbor would be blockaded only on days that end with "y."

[Armstead]

13. A Revolution based on compromise

You are correct that after many years of attempting to compromise with British rule, colonists finally were pushed to the wall beyond compromise.

But ultimately, the government they subsequently built was based on compromise -- or at least the attempt to achieve compromise.

[derby378]

25. And just look how well compromise worked...

That three-fifths compromise? Not to mention the compromise that allowed slavery in the South? Didn't work out so good.

Sometimes you just gotta take a stand, and that's not what we see Obama doing right now.

[treestar]

39. So if the Southern States would not join in

Because of standing on principle, what would have happened?

It did work out at the time, it allowed the country to exist at all. It would have remained a British colony. sometimes hindsight is just too much.

[treestar]

36. So we should have a war over every point?

I do believe that once America was established, people wanted to live by the government set out in the Constitution, not a constant state of revolution.

[derby378]

65. We DID have a war - a big, bloody one at that - over slavery

Compromise didn't work out so good for us in the long run.

[The Magistrate]

7. True, Sir

The problem comes when someone takes compromise as an end, a positive good in itself, rather than as a means towards a desireable end. The person who wants above all else to make a deal will always and forever get rolled by the person who desires an end and means to achieve it.

"People who tell lies know what the truth is. People who tell half-lies have forgotten where they put it."

[DCBob]

8. This is a compromise.. non-compromise would have been the Ryan Plan..

or Boehner's Cut,Crap, and Bust. Get real.

[Armstead]

15. Oh come off it...They are all just shades of the same thing

[DCBob]

17. you should look at the some of details of CCB and Ryans plan.

its shocking.

[Armstead]

21. Perhaps so, which just reinforces my point

They started with extreme proposals of what they ultimately wanted. Any "compromise" they made was only to move slightly away from the most what they truly wanted to almost all of what they wanted.

President Obama and the Democrats (not all) started from the point the GOP set. Therefore, (to use a sports analogy) the whole game has been played with Obama walking right next to the GOP goalpost.

[treestar]

37. +1

Thank you for stating what true "caving" would be.

[LaydeeBug]

57. Bullshit. You need to move outside the beltway and stop kidding yourself.

[Swede]

12. Compromise you!

:shrug:

[Armstead]

16. Eh you're just a Compromiser....A MotherCompromiser

[DCBob]

18. Well this horrible "compromise" probably just saved our AAA rating.

Mark Zandi (Moodys) just said on CNN he thinks our AAA rating is safe if this deal goes through as being described now.

[Armstead]

30. We could have gotten that done without selling the store

We'll have the same status quo credit rating -- which NEVER should have been threatened --but we will also be put into a straightjacket of GOP imposed budget and program slashes.

[Autumn]

19. This is not Compromise in any way.

This is complete and utter SURRENDER. Before the first shot was fired.

[Armstead]

22. That's my point....It's like the current definition of "family values" has nothing to do with...

family values.

[jefferson_dem]

20. Compromise is still an awesome word.

Starting with an emphasis on that principle does not necessarily amount to a quality negotiating tactic, in American politics, however.

[Armstead]

23. I agree with that....Which is why the current use makes me angry

[jefferson_dem]

27. You have every right to be angry.

"GOP held up spending cuts as core value. Obama held up compromise. So we compromise on spending cuts." http://twitter.com/#!/mattyglesias/status/97659609128505345

[TheKentuckian]

24. Compromise is best when reached not when sought by one negotiating with

a hardliner.

Our "compromises" are garbage because neither party is negotiating in anything resembling good faith. The TeaPubliKlans are not negotiating at all, only giving up slightly on newly discovered extremist territories rather than any birds in hand which means they win by default by gaining ground as what they "give" in these exchanges.
Then our people are making no effort whatsoever to reach our goals, their efforts are focused on getting a "compromise", so much so that all exchanges start were they used to be willing to go before staking new and more extreme positions and we then negotiate toward the bullshit wacko position which again ensures they win.

Terms of surrender are not generally seen as compromises nor is unconditional surrender the only true defeat.

[Armstead]

26. Yes, compromise should be a by-product. Not the starting point.

A compromise can either be hard-won through extreme struggle, or the result of more agreeable negotiation.

But it only comes about as a result of two (or many) sided efforts to get what they want.

[Pisces]

28. No, it was the republicans that made compromise a 4 letter word. How revisionist of you.

[Armstead]

29. They did too, but I experct that from them...

But what I am referring to is the misuse of that term by Obama and the Democrats as a code to disguise giving the other side everything it wants without admitting that it is a surrender.

[Pisces]

40. That is your interpretation. I just don't understand how people think Obama wants to enact the

Republican agenda. He is not in control of the House. We have been hijacked by teaparty House members and this is not Obama's fault. Maybe if we would get out and vote in the midterms this wouldn't happen. Democrats do not vote en masse in the midterms ever. This is how Repukes sneak in their agenda. Old people vote at every election.

It blows my mind how so many are ready to burn Obama in effigy as if he alone could make the laws or change these ignorant minds.

Compromise is how you govern, and when neither side is happy a deal is struck.

[Armstead]

43. You have a point about comparative particopation

But doing things like repudiating the basic principles of the liberal base is not a tactic that is likely to fire up enthusiasm.

And I would say it is Obama'sfault for not standing firm and allowing the baggers to hijack the agenda. He started the whole negotiation on their terms, instead of building a coalition across the spectrum against their economic terrorism.

[Pisces]

45. Firing up enthusiasm will get you so far, however historically speaking the midterms belong to the

republicans. Standing firm means acting like a subborn asshole, mirroring the teaparty house memebers? He is the President and unlike them can not allow the Country to fall into ruin. You don't play
chicken with a deranged driver.

I know Obama didn't want to set precedent with the 14th Amendment, but this is what I would have liked to see happen. I also know that the republicans would salivate at the idea so that they could try and impeach Obama.

There is no win/win when you are dealing with imbeciles. Even Clinton did not have to deal with the morons Obama is working with.

[Armstead]

48. In my opinion, the Democrats should have introduced a clean bill daily

And back it up with rhe constant message that it is the ONLY responsible thing to do.

That is something that is shared by about 85 percent of the country, going to all but the lunatic fringe of the right.

[jenmito]

49. YOU have made Compromise a code word for Surrender. You choose to ignore what

the Dems. get out of the deals.

[Jack Rabbit]

51. I have to disagree with you, friend

It's not that I'm saying President Obama handled this thing well. He did not. He could only compromise with a negotiating partner bargaining in good faith, and that was missing here. This should have been treated as a hostage situation, where negotiating with the criminals is only a rouse to buy time to get the sharpshooters in place.

I'm very much afraid what we witnessed this weekend was the fall of America.

[Armstead]

61. That is not a disagreement

Where I might differ is that what Obama and others call "compromise" was a complete sell out that legitimized the position of the GOP instead of challenging it. It also rewards bad behavior.

Your point might be well taken if Obama and the Dems had something up their sleeve. But there are and were no sharpshooters in place unfortunately.

[AtomicKitten]

52. Compromise requires honest brokers and the GOP do not negotiate in good faith.

[Telly Savalas]

53. And as a consequence these bullshit debt proposals should not be called compromises

[AtomicKitten]

54. Compromise would be raising taxes on the wealthy and eliminating oil & gas subsidies. nt

[Telly Savalas]

58. Right

If those things were done while non-defense discretionary spending was cut, that would be a compromise.

Other major pieces of legislation under the Obama Administration were built on compromise. They ceded some ground to get enough support in the House and Senate, but they made gains and achieved some Democratic objectives. This fiscal blueprint in contrast offers almost nothing for liberals or moderates.

[RBInMaine]

56. Hyperbolic fringe rant

[Armstead]

60. Coming from you I consider that a compliment

[BklnDem75]

62. Yes... Thanks DU

Compromise became a bad word here. Congrats.

[bobdawg]

63. Actually, compromise is almost always an example of the golden mean fallacy.

It is a logical fallacy recognized since at least the ancient Greeks.

1. Position A and B are two extreme positions.
2. C is a position that rests in the middle between A and B.
3. Therefore C is the correct position.

I say you owe me $1,000,000.
You say you owe me nothing.
Therefore the best solution is for you to pay me $500,000.

Compromise frequently results in an awful situation.

[Ikonoklast]

64. You could walk away from the deal.

And get nothing in return.


Looking back I'd bet that $500,000.00 would look pretty good to you.

[bobdawg]

68. but not so good to you

[boppers]

66. Evil, eye, beholder, yada yada.

Since you dove straight to "EVERYTHING", what happened to the Balanced Budget Amendment?

Oh, they didn't get it?

So, EVERYTHING is not accurate, is it?

What's next, "ALMOST EVERYTHING"?

(Don't worry, goalposts are light, I'll even help move them for you!)


edit: missing letter

[Armstead]

69. Oh they didn;t get a balanced budget amendment that would never go anywhere....

that's right.

Okay I take it back. Obama got a true compromise that was a clear alternative to the GOP's insistence that draconian budgets be imposed, instead of just passing the debt ceiling and arguing about the rest separately. Oh and the "job creators" still get to avoid the taxes that the "little people pay."

[boppers]

70. Sorry, I'm a bit of a stickler for facts.

Nothing personal.

The "little people" are still paying the bulk of the *painful* taxes, and the rich are whining about it.