President Obama did NOT cave. He was held hostage again by the GOP terrorists.

[Tx4obama]

It is NOT a cave. Because ....

The House has to vote to pass a resolution in order to hold the joint session.
If ya can't get The House to vote yes on the resolution, then there'd be no way for Obama to have access to the room for the speech.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

1. He caved.

Perception is reality. Check perception in the news cycles over the next few days. He caved.

[Name removed]

4. Deleted message

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[EffieBlack]

6. Perception of WHOM?

Most people aren't paying any attention to this at all.

This is a tempest in a teapot. The President asked to speak on Wednesday. Boehner said Wednesday's not good and asked if he would move it to Thursday. He did.

Big whoop.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

19. Good point. To be clear, I was talking about the people who ARE paying attention

Everyone listening to NPR this evening would qualify as those who are paying attention. I don't really need a 4-sentence recap of what happened; I have a decent idea of what happened. Boner played Lucy and pulled the football before the kick, and Obama accommodated him. It's not the biggest thing in the world, no, but it is the latest in a long, long line of disappointing behavior on the President's part. It plays into the "Obama is weak" line of thinking. It doesn't help. And yeah, it actually does matter, as much as you or I might wish it didn't. Reasonable people can reschedule events--it happens all the time. It should go without saying that he's not dealing with reasonable people. One of his glaring problems, as far as I'm concerned, is that he doesn't seem to understand that he's not dealing with reasonable people.

[dionysus]

73. only the hardest of hardcore political junkies give a shit about this...

[trueblue2007]

34. HE DID NOT CAVE. Boner controls house. Pres. O can't force the speech

[DisgustipatedinCA]

42. Here's the thing...or at least A thing

You can think he didn't cave, and that's cool. But the general perception out there, by those who pay attention, is that he did cave. Some people have already told me that I fell for some modern day Goebbels just because I talked about perception. But yes, perception does matter, and a negative perception does take a toll. This move hurts Obama, even if you can completely understand and agree with all the reasoning that went into the series of decisions. Others won't see it that way. It's a real problem.

[elocs]

41. Yeah, he caved. They knew about the debate when they picked the date.

Other than the spinners here at DU, your average American will look at it and say "Obama caved and did as he was told".

[LonePirate]

2. The only way to deal with a bully is to stand up to him. Once again, Obama refused. Thus he caved.

[Magister Ludi]

8. Would he have gotten the Joint Session by fighting Boehner?? Really?

[treestar]

27. That's what they say every time.

Obama can get anything if he just "fights!" They really think there is a way for a President to be "strong" enough to force Congress to do his bidding.

[Magister Ludi]

30. Deep down, they want a benevolent dictator.

[treestar]

31. Exactly!

Welcome to DU! :hi:

[krawhitham]

11. The White house can not force Boner to vote on anything

Boner stood his ground and refused to take a vote for Wednesday


If They could have forced a vote, the tea party congress would have voted it down because of the debate, how would that have looked?

[MrsCorleone]

75. Is it just me, or does it seem like many ditched Civics class in school?

Boner is the S P E A K E R of THE HOUSE, a co-equal branch of government. He decides, like it or not.

I would expect this sort of reaction over at FR.

[Llewlladdwr]

76. Think about the optics from the other side.

The GOP can use this as yet another example of them standing up to a bully, who was trying to stomp on their debate.

Who really looks stronger here?

[alc]

3. It was a stupid/useless/meaningless "battle"

Why would an intelligent person even get in that situation? He needs new advisors.

[krawhitham]

13. Because NBC will not cover it on Thrusday

The NFL is the only thing they have people watch

[alc]

His laser-like focus on jobs is 2 years old.

He could wait another week to talk to all of congress and us. He can talk to some congressmen TODAY if he has something urgent.

[alc]

29. Dup

He could wait another week to talk to all of congress and us. He can talk to some congressmen TODAY if he has something urgent.

[Tx4obama]

53. President Obama's Thursday Jobs Speech will NOT conflict with the football game

Excerpt:

A White House official says "We won't conflict with football," meaning an early time frame for the speech.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/08/31/obama-jobs-speech-congress-joint-session_n_944322.html

[Arctic Dave]

5. Word on the street is Obama has to ask Boner to use the bathroom.

And he has to raise his hand to speak.

[Magister Ludi]

10. You don't even know the process for holding a joint session, do you?

Why bother with actual policy when blind rage feels so good?

[Arctic Dave]

16. I do understand it. The fact is most people don't and the snooz

will spin this as a gaffe for Obama.

[Magister Ludi]

21. So the truth is meaningless. Media coverage is everything? if you believe that, we have lost already

[Voltaire]

43. Are you just now figuring out that the truth is meaningless

in America??

[Arctic Dave]

49. Oh my! How refreshingly naive.

Welcome to DU. :D

[EffieBlack]

22. And plenty of Democrats are going out of their way to help with the spin.

Nice job.

[TheKentuckian]

79. Then why the hell did he schedule the speech for the TeaPubliKlan debate?

and if that date was significant why didn't he abandon the joint session and go with the Oval Office?

Why pick a fight you not only cannot win but one you have zero intention of fighting? Or is this a case of incompetent logistics?

I don't really care about this but what was the point of the exercise?

[Tx4obama]

12. So, you think Boehner should be allowed to walk into the Oval Office anytime he wants?

The House is not under the authority of President Obama.
He can't just walk in and give a speech there without The House passing a resolution first.

[Arctic Dave]

Word on the street says that is exactly what Boner does.

I'm not saying, the street is. :evilgrin:

[Rageneau]

23. You sure about that?

Section 3 - State of the Union, Convening Congress

He shall from time to time give to the Congress Information of the State of the Union, and recommend to their Consideration such Measures as he shall judge necessary and expedient; he may, on extraordinary Occasions, convene both Houses, or either of them, and in Case of Disagreement between them, with Respect to the Time of Adjournment, he may adjourn them to such Time as he shall think proper; he shall receive Ambassadors and other public Ministers; he shall take Care that the Laws be faithfully executed, and shall Commission all the Officers of the United States.

[Autumn]

15. I hear that Boner shakes him down for his lunch money

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[Arctic Dave]

20. And makes Obama eat Boners vegetables.

[QC]

48. Only the peas. n/t

[BeyondGeography]

7. Then Team Obama has its head up its ass

[woolldog]

9. Of course he caved.

This president makes me embarrassed to be a democrat.

[MuseRider]

14. LOL I thought he would at least

make it to tomorrow morning. That was damned fast!

[Name removed]

18. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MuseRider]

28. I was never crazy about him

did not care for what he stood for but never expected it to be this bad. The constant caving in is killing me. Seriously, I don't care for he-man tactics but for cripes sake, he caves as quickly as possible. I have never seen anyone duck before the ball was even picked up. It is embarrassing and creepy frankly.

[MrsCorleone]

78. It's RW propaganda, frankly. Learn to identify what is reality and what is BS. nt

[Name removed]

24. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Solomon]

71. i'm embarrassed that you' a democrat too.

[MrsCorleone]

77. I'm embarrassed that you're a Democrat, as well.

Turn off the RW propaganda and pick up a Civics text book.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

17. Correct me if I'm wrong, but when Repuke presidents have a Democrat Congress...

they don't go through crap like this.

[Tx4obama]

54. You can bet your boots that the next time there is a gop'er in the Oval Office they will have to

go thru the same crap.
Paybacks are hell :)

[Sarah Ibarruri]

60. Didn't that situation already exist when GW Bush was in office? nt

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

70. And their base doesn't blame them FIRST for everything. They blame the other

party--the Democrats--for everything, just like we do!

[treestar]

25. Don't try to reason with people who want a "strong leader" who does

whatever he wants. And of course assume that he wants everything they want.

[tcaudilllg]

38. He's a representative of those who elected him.

Can someone explain to me what the benefit would be of him getting re-elected?

[Empowerer]

47. No - he's the President of the UNITED STATES

[tcaudilllg]

67. Correct, and only the Dems are informed enough to understand what's in our collective interest.

So he should only be listening to us. He's not just going against the popular will here... he's defying the established logic and theory, which has already had the gall to deride once.

[JohnnyLib2]

26. "eyes of the beholder" etc.

Hard to see this an ANY way as strength.

[MannyGoldstein]

32. FDR, Truman, JFK, & LBJ would do the same

You betcha.

[Magister Ludi]

36. You think they would fight an unwinnable battle for 8 days and still not get a Joint Session?

Those men weren't quite so foolish as you portray.

[MannyGoldstein]

46. I think the Republicans would know that if they tried such a thing there

would be horrible repercussions, if those guys were President.

Which is part of the reason they were not failed Presidents.

[totodeinhere]

33. Spin away my friend. n/t

[FrenchieCat]

37. democracy and shit often gets in the way.....

I'm glad that Obama ain't carrying on like a dictator,
and having temper tantrums!

Jackie Robinson would be proud! :thumbsup:

[tcaudilllg]

35. Clinton would have never let this happen.

[FrenchieCat]

39. Clinton was perfect!

Cause I'm sure signing away Glass-Steagall and NAFTA and DOMA and DADT
wouldn't be considered a Cave unless Pres. Obama was the one who had done it.
No si-ree!

[Tx4obama]

52. +100. Well said! n/t

[polmaven]

62. You and I agree for the most part, FrenchieCat,

but on this...whicle I do agree on Glass-Steagall and NAFTA, I really think that DADT and DOMA were the right moves for the time.

The policy on the gays in the military needed reforming, but just eliminating the ban completely would NOT have passed, and would not have been approved of by the public at all. DOMA may well have stopped a Constitutional amendment to define marriage. That would have3 been much more difficult to repeal than DOMA is.

The public's perception has, indeed, come a long way since the mid Nineties, and now both of those can be overturned. I firmly believe they were necessary at the time, though.

[Dawgs]

66. Obama is worse than Clinton. They should both be embarrassed to call themselves Democrats. n/t

[jenmito]

40. When even Ed Schultz says he didn't cave, he didn't cave. K&R. n/t

[RetroLounge]

44. SPIN

:rofl:

RL

[onpatrol98]

45. The President Can Give A Speech Right Now If He Wants!!!

Skip the congress!!! Skip the theater...give the speech. He is not being held hostage. He doesn't need their room or them for a speech. I hope he gives the speech, first thing in the morning. In addition, I hope its so informative that the country will still be talking about it a week from now. But, to say he's being held hostage (to me) makes him sound helpless. And, he's not helpless. He is the President of the United States of America.

I agree with you that it's not a cave. I do think this hoopla has caused him an unnecessary distraction.

[Tx4obama]

55. Yes, Obama DOES need them to be there in the room when he gives the speech

He is going to tell THEM what he wants THEM to do!

[onpatrol98]

57. They don't need to be there for that...

They've got televisions...LOL.

If we can watch it on TV...so can they. The useless bunch of ...good for nothings. They'll also get copies of the speech. If they can read, that'll be helpful. We don't need to wait until we corral them into a room. They'll just look like a bunch of useless props. It just seems like theater. This isn't the State of the Union address. The reason he's talking directly to the American people in the first place is because they haven't been worth a hoot. I say...(my opinion, of course)...get a camera, look straight into it...and talk. No letters to Boehner, no political gamesmanship gone bad, talk to the millions of unemployed Americans and worried about becoming unemployed Americans about what we're going to do to move ahead.

If he wants theater, bring in a fireplace and put on a sweater. But, give it to us straight. Be honest, don't you think that would have some appeal. The President just talking to the American people...minus the big walk into the room, the hand shaking, cheering, etc. Just a good game plan and call it a day. It's not like Congress won't be listening. No rebuttals from Republicans, no spin. Just the plan.

I think he should "Go Big" on plans that he knows the American public wants. And, there are some things people need regardless of political party. Come out with a plan that addresses how we can get what we need done and then ask the public to harrass the daylights out of their congressman for support.

No matter what your political persuasion was...there was no doubt, the public gave Congress and earful over the last comprehensive immigration bill. It may not have had the result some of us wanted...but when you shut the phone lines down, people listen. Politicians have become good at keeping us divided and yelping at each other. If we all yelped at them for a change, we could get some things done. Or, that could just be wishful thinking on my part.

I say...why wait? Give the speech tomorrow. Skip Boehner.

[Tx4obama]

59. Obama looks directly into the camera EVERY WEEK when he gives his taped weekly address

to the American people.
I betcha that 99% of the population hasn't watched any of them or even heard about them.
President Obama DOES need to give the speech in the House Chamber in front of Congress where it will be aired by the networks and cable TV so that a larger percentage of the population will see/hear it.

[BR_Parkway]

64. "My fellow Americans, I am speaking to you tonight from the Oval Office - a setting

that has traditionally been used only in the most dire circumstances. Well that's exactly where we are right now. In spite of trying to work with the Republicans to get Americans working again, they have repeatedly ignored those of you in need on behalf of the Corporations who they are so loyal to. Record profits keep right on going on, in spite of promises to hire more people. And what do the Republicans in Congress do? Scream for more tax breaks for their rich friends, even though the last decade has proven that strategy only makes a few even more wealthy while putting so many of you out of work. They're so opposed to helping out everyday Middle class Americans, they refused to allow me to make this speech in a joint session of Congress - so you can clearly see why unemployment remains so high.

If you're as tired of this as I am, please call your Congressional representatives at the number posted on the screen below. It's long past time for putting American back to work again.

Thank you, Gawd Bless American and Good Night"




Nah, Oval Office could be much more effective.

[onpatrol98]

68. I agree...

If it really is this serious...and I think it is, skip the pomp. And, if he really wants the coverage, his staff can make sure he gets it. I realize his team was thinking of the optics AND they kind of wanted to upstage republicans, but in times like these...with more homeless, more unemployed, in all due perspective this is just a speech. Give it. People who want to listen to it...will. But, I don't believe the House "had" to be there. Ignore them. Now, if he was hoping they would sit there quietly while he berated them, or even better make a silly scene...they can play those games later. I think the majority of Americans right now are concerned with the economy, jobs, their health and no relief in the near future.

[hulka38]

50. He caved. eom

[Thrill]

51. He has to learn to fight sometime

Damn

[Azathoth]

56. Then he can speak on the steps of the Capitol

and make them watch it from the windows.

[onpatrol98]

58. +1

[whosinpower]

61. It is getting harder and harder

There are so many of us who would eagerly support Obama if he stood up to the bully that is Boehner.
And just when it looks like Obama actually fucking BELIEVES HE DESERVES TO BE PRESIDENT, he backs down and all the pro Obama people are forced into defensive mode....he did not cave.....

Perception is everything. It looks as if Boehner told the president of the United States to take a hike because their GOP debate is MORE FUCKING IMPORTANT....and Obama conceded....again.

[Enrique]

63. he put himself in the hostage situation again

either by accident or by a strategy backfiring. And people who blew it up into a big showdown made it worse.

[Dawgs]

65. He looks stupid then.

Every headline today says that Obama 'bowed' or 'buckled' to Boehner. No way you can spin that headline as good for the President.

[MrsCorleone]

80. It's RW propaganda, propaganda that gets repeated ad nauseam on DU.

Obama is weak. Obama caved. Obama buckled. Obama bowed. Obama capitulated. Obama looks stupid. Obama is bad...

Seriously, what net effect do you think those words will have as they saturate the media atmosphere? I know. The low information voters, the majority, will not vote for Obama and the Dems, that's for sure.

So, my question for you is: why are you perpetuating this RW meme?

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

69. DU, the PL, and the Corporate Media says he caved, so damnit, they

must certainly be right! He caved!!!!

:sarcasm:

[dionysus]

74. spelunking! the humanity! RARGH!!

;)

[whistler162]

72. Neither a cave or held hostage... it does put the Republicans

in a bit of a mess since their rebuttal will be against the NFL football game.... OOOPPPSS... Boehner blew it!

[Carolina]

81. He CAVED

as he always does.

If he were serious, he would screw the do-nothing, obstructionist bullies in Congress and exercise his prerogative to give a speech straight from the Oval Office a la FDR. Then he would call the Congressional bastards out. But he is not a fighter; he capitulates at every turn -- sometimes before the fight has even begun.

Plus is his jobs speech worth it?

http://www.commondreams.org/view/2011/09/02-8

Feeble President, Feeble Plans
Obama’s jobs plan: Go work for free! by Robert Kuttner

... The case in point is President Barack Obama’s embrace of a state program called Georgia Works, which tries to turn unemployment insurance into a kind of sing-for-your-supper “workfare” program.
Jobless workers in Georgia drawing unemployment compensation are encouraged to go work for private employers—for free—in exchange for some kind of training... The premise is that working for free will help them get a foot in the door and maybe get hired (if the employer hires). According to Georgia’s own statistics, however, only about 15 percent do.

This pitifully inadequate program is very likely to be part of Obama’s forthcoming jobs speech.
... Why is the administration embracing such a right-wing and futile program?

For starters, sources close to the White House say the president and his political advisers are terrified that the Republicans will block an extension of unemployment insurance... They hope that if they extend this feeble olive branch, Republicans might go along...

Obama has given away so much in budget deals that the cupboard is bare.

... if Republicans are threatening to block extension of unemployment insurance, at a time when 25 million Americans are unemployed or unable to find full-time work, a president with an ounce of political intelligence would be screaming from the housetops, not throwing pitiful bones...

How dare Speaker John Boehner, for the first time in the history of the Republic, refuse to honor a request from the president of the United States to address a joint session of Congress? And of course, Obama agreed to change the date.

His slogan might as well be “Kick Me.”...

What you don’t do is meet the opposition 90 percent of the way, put forth your own programs lacking in credibility, much less validate the other side’s ideology and talking points...