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This business about the speech date change is part of a really depressing pattern.

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Mayberry Machiavelli Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-31-11 10:14 PM
Original message
This business about the speech date change is part of a really depressing pattern.
President Obama and his administration do what looks to be a bold move. Obstinate resistance arises, sometimes from within Democrats (such as with Guantanamo closure and trials in the U.S.), always from the GOP (debt ceiling, appointments, you name it). Then there is a capitulation that makes President Obama look worse and weaker than if the bold stand had never been taken, and it calls political competence into question, because it makes it appear that there wasn't any reasonable plan to take into account the obstinate resistance and what to do in that event.

The first time the President was met with boneheaded resistance at all costs by the GOP (and some Dems on the Guantanamo deal) it's a bit understandable as a miscalculation. But there has been plenty of time even during this one term to learn, the GOP has been completely predictable the whole time.

I fail to see what was gained by this little drama over the speech date change. What was lost was that the President lost face, and looks foolish for having challenged the GOP on this point, however small, if he wasn't prepared to stand his ground or gain any other advantage from the situation. Either the President's people were so clueless as to not even know the date of the GOP debate (not a chance), or they had no plan for the GOP telling the President to go pound sand. It can be said to be a small thing, but it's a battle that didn't even have to be fought, and lost for no reason.

The President losing face is significant. It's no small thing. The GOP understands this implicitly which is why they take such care to prevent this when they are in the Presidency.

The massive capitulation over the debt ceiling is a political disaster for the president not just because of the actual policy issues, but politically, it damaged him severely because of the appearance, and reality, of weakness. It's why his polling is so terrible now. It's why Rick Perry got into the race, when he was no doubt happy to sit out until 2016 right up until the debt ceiling capitulation, where the whole country can sense the weakness. Up until that moment Perry and much of the GOP establishment no doubt considered the race Obama's to lose with the incumbency advantage.

But when they can bring the Democratic President to heel so easily and make him look ridiculous, they can sense a real opportunity to win the office back.

I support the President. I supported him heavily in the primaries and the general election, and I still think he has many accomplishments worth celebrating and I believe him to be trying hard with a difficult hand. He has my vote in 2012. But the debt ceiling hostage fiasco and this small speech date brouhaha have me really discouraged, considered among a pattern of such defeats. It really makes me wonder how a team that ran such a strong campaign in the primaries and the general election can be stumbling so badly.
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young but wise Donating Member (760 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-31-11 10:16 PM
Response to Original message
1. It's that serious.
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Imajika Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-31-11 10:27 PM
Response to Original message
2. Your way overthinking this...
"It's why his polling is so terrible now."

The President's polling is terrible now because the economy continues to suck. Period. People had high expectations and great hopes for Obama. After 2 1/2 years and countless Presidential speeches and appearances, the economy is still awful and seemingly not improving - perhaps even getting worse.

We have begun to reach a danger zone, where people begin to just tune the President out. Early on his wonderful oratory and presence reassured people and made them believe in him, now they are disappointed, don't see any real change in their lives and just tune him out.

One big problem President Obama has is expectations were so high for him. People had such high hopes, and now his speeches are just more words.

Still, Obama's polling will go right back up if the economy starts improving. People will regain confidence in him and his oratory will matter again. If this economy turns around enough where a majority of people really feel things are improving, Obama will have no problem winning in 2012. If it doesn't, Obama could lose in 2012.
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woolldog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-01-11 08:41 AM
Response to Reply #2
10. The economy has been bad for 2+ years now
That's not why obamas numbers have suddenly taken a turn for the worse, from the mid to high 40s to the high 30s. It's not a coincidence that that drop happened after the debt ceiling fight.
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Turbineguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-31-11 10:31 PM
Response to Original message
3. They would not even make this small
accommodation. And they won.
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Mayberry Machiavelli Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-31-11 10:38 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. The problem is, the President could easily have initially scheduled a different date.
I can't see any reason to intentionally conflict with the GOP debate except to flex his muscle and win points, but it appeared they had no plan for the GOP simply saying "no" which they ALWAYS do now. Small or big, it was a needless defeat.

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Tx4obama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-31-11 10:46 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. The Obama administration had already talked to Boehner's office
and they had no problem with the September 7th date.
Then 'after' they received the letter from Obama that is when Boehner pulled his reversal.

The blame lies at the feet of The GOP on this one.

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CakeGrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-01-11 04:23 AM
Response to Reply #4
7. What "defeat"? He WILL give his speech to Congress and with more attention drawn to it
thanks to the silly hyperventilation over "caving".

For those who can see past that, Boehner is the one who operated in bad faith by taking the scheduling details PUBLIC.

Some of you are unable to credit the President with knowing what you know about the GOP. You're scratching your head over how the WH didn't know about the GOP debate.

That's because they DID know, and they know damn well how the GOP responds. And they were able to generate yet another politicized response.

And thanks to all this 'caving' hysteria, more people are going to pay attention to these dueling events.
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Tesha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-01-11 06:16 PM
Response to Reply #4
13. What makes you think the Republicans would have agreed to *ANY* initially-suggested date?
They know how to run a power play; how to be a bully
giving a wedgy.

Tesha
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ProfessionalLeftist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-01-11 04:12 AM
Response to Original message
6. What's to be gained is power. You answered the question yourself:
Edited on Thu Sep-01-11 04:14 AM by ProfessionalLeftist
"the President lost face, and looks foolish"

"The President losing face is significant."

"But when they can bring the Democratic President to heel so easily and make him look ridiculous, they can sense a real opportunity to win the office back."

THAT is what was gained by this little drama. And, the last BIG drama too (debt ceiling extortion).

They're treating Obama like what he is to them - a "boy".


EDIT: That said, YES, Obama should have had a plan to deal with any obstinance, obstacles, stubbornness, roadblocks, etc. that they threw up - KNOWING that they would do so and will continue to do so every chance they get. He should have learned by now to expect it and plan for it ie: have a "Plan B" every time he wants to do something.

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Azathoth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-01-11 04:34 AM
Response to Original message
8. Pretty much sums it up n/t
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bklyncowgirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-01-11 05:32 AM
Response to Original message
9. You make a very good point. Obama comes off as a man who can be insulted ....
and who will then turn around and beg the pardon of the person who insulted him.

This wouldn't have been so bad if it hadn't been, as you said, part of a pattern.
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okieinpain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-01-11 06:08 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. i think that is the way his mom raised him because of where
they lived.
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Tarheel_Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-01-11 05:28 PM
Response to Original message
11. Ridiculous assessment! No one but the political junkies, who are always spoiling for a fight, know
Edited on Thu Sep-01-11 05:30 PM by Tarheel_Dem
or even give a crap that a speech was moved from one day to the next. Outside of places like DU and the political blogosphere, stuff like this barely makes a ripple. If I had to hazard a guess, I'd say that < 2% of the population follows this stuff closely enough to care. The PL can make a crisis out of anything, and they never fail to do so. Get over it!

I mean, did you really want the media to focus on the fight over a date for an entire week? The president's much smarter than that. :hi:
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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-01-11 08:16 PM
Response to Reply #11
15. +1000
Talk about petty.
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Tarheel_Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-01-11 09:37 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. Is there any wonder only 20% of the electorate lays claim to being a Liberal?
:shrug:

This is the dumbest crap ever. In Bush I's time, and even Clinton, I don't think a non-story like this would've seen the light of day. Decency & rationality have been sacrificed at the altar of the 24/7 media beast. :hi:
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Cali_Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-01-11 06:37 PM
Response to Original message
14. If Obama keeps this up, he could be labeled as the weakest President in US History
Weakness just emanates from him and he's doing nothing to change this perception. The American people disagree on a lot of issues, but one thing most Americans don't like is a weak leader.
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okieinpain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-01-11 08:20 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. bullshit. n/t
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Swede Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-01-11 10:01 PM
Response to Original message
18. Whew! I thought you were serious.
nt
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