Because you are being forced to buy health insurance every gripe you have about it

[dkf]

Will be the fault of Democrats for eternity. High premiums high copays denial of claims all of it. Democrats Will own all the downside and the upside (but you would have been paying much more if we didn't save you) will be seen as minimal to the vast majority of Americans. We are so screwed.

[IndianaGreen]

1. add to that the new tax on the employer's portion of health care benefits

and a much reduced paycheck will result in the midst of financial hardship.

[iconocrastic]

36. Doesn't matter. This is our ticket to single-payer.

[iconocrastic]

37. As soon as the Supreme Court invalidates the mandate to buy from a private company

And we regulate the shit out of the corporations,

the government steps forward to save the system.

Works every time.

Watch and learn.

[cabluedem]

39. No it isnt. The Reps will take over in 10 and freeze this. nt

[Laelth]

2. Agreed. This is political suicide for the Democratic Party.

Polls show a majority of Americans oppose the individual mandate. This is a terrible piece of legislation, and the Democratic Party will (rightly) be punished for it by the electorate if it passes.

Kill the bill.

Forcing people to buy insurance is no more the answer to a failed health care system than forcing people to buy houses is the solution to homelessness.

:dem:

-Laelth

[Cronus Protagonist]

3. They can try to force me, but they can't get blood from a stone

I know I'm not alone.

[Caretha]

25. Your right

I'm just another turnip that ran dry a long time ago.

[FrenchieCat]

4. We are not screwed.

Most want to buy health insurance, they just want to be able to afford it.
Those that don't want to buy it, do want to be treated for a broken arm,
and most don't want to die in a County hospital,
when whatever they had could have been prevented.

You are being elementary, and are only concerned with
the folks that don't want to buy health insurance,
even if they might eventual need medical care....

[dkf]

7. I'm not talking about just the 31 million who theoretically will be covered

I'm talking about every single US citizen. The federal government says I must get insurance either from my employer or independently. Any thing unfair that comes up in my dealings with my insurance company is under the government because they say I have to get it.

The federal government has made themselves responsible to see every policy is fair.

[glinda]

10. And if you have it from buying it yourself you are stuck with it. Nice!!!!!!!!!!!!

Even though you cannot afford it, it comes out of diminishing interest on your husband's retirement and it now is not covered anymore and comes out of the house money. Then you will get charged hundreds more when you have to drop it but a just a little over the poverty line. Then you go to jail. Without insurance. Meanwhile a small portion of the population gets insurance. I am way soooo depressed.

[Caretha]

24. Wrong!

If you'd like to look at my pay stub, and then look at what my cost of living is and figure out how I can do on less, be my guest. I'm so tired of doing without, without enough money to fix up a shitty car and go to my shitty job. I already have no sick leave, and if I am sick, I have to pay a coworker to cover me. Oh I know!!! Why don't we charge me for being sick before I am sick. That'll fix it! Or gee...how about I find another well paying job in this wonderful job market. That'll take care of the problem.

All I can say is grow-up! Figure out what is going on outside of your "small circle".

I am not sure where you live, or what type of safety net you have, but there are a whole lot of people suffering and they just fuckin' ran out of a safety net.

P.S. It doesn't matter if the government does subsidize me, and I only pay $115 per month (or whatever minimal or maximal cost they determine I should pay to private insurance companies to deny me health care), I Still can't afford it, or the doctors visit. Hell I can't afford to pay the poor sucker (read co-worker the $75 a day it costs for me to be sick).

It's time some people get real. Otherwise talk to the hand. I've had it.

[kenny blankenship]

5. Here's another happy thought. The Democrats and the govt. overall are now on the hook for delivering

PROFITS!

If profits fall for the insurance companies, the Democrats will rework the terms in order to make the too big to fail insurance companies plump and glossy with profits again.

Because not to do so will be "to behave irresponsibly and to endanger the health of the American people!"

They'll be sad. They'll warn that "the system is running out of money!" They'll say we must act as responsible realistic adults and clean up the mess made by the insurance co.s. and stuff them with money. They'll let us know this isn't how they want to spend their time and that they're disappointed that it all turned out this way. And then they'll stick another needle in and tap another vein in the arm of America to keep their insurance company patrons "fixed" up til the next time.

[dkf]

8. And if they can inflate prices then their 20% profit margin is even bigger.

Haven't we just given them incentive to inflate costs?

[BP2]

6. Don't forget - no price caps

If we can't take the time to fix this thing NOW, we'll never have another shot!

The insurance companies will never, EVER, let us change that unless it's done now.

[ProSense]

9. We're screwed because of your speculative mischaracterizations?

I think Democrats can live with being blamed for reforming the health care system and providing coverage for millions who previously had none.

[dkf]

15. That is if you honestly think it is going to improve

The test of which will be declining premiums and copays and no hassles from insurance companies. I on the other hand have been watching banking reform and I say it's not gonna happen.

[Th1onein]

35. The Democrats aren't providing shit.

They are FORCING people to buy insurance, who cannot afford insurance. They're taxing employer-paid benefits, and they're using the IRS to enforce the mandates. We are FUCKED and we've fucked ourselves in the 2010 elections.

[depakid]

11. Yep- if this travesty passes, Democrats will own it

and arguments about Republicans and Republicrat's opposition to responsible reform will fall on deaf ears.

[mvd]

13. I only want to pass it if we have a chance of amending it in committee

Can't see us revisiting health care reform for a while if there's no public option or plan to expand Medicare. By the time we do, the insurance companies could be in control of health care.

Really want Obama to get something passed, but what I'm reading about the Senate bill makes me want to start over if that will be final.

[cabluedem]

18. Yeap, we own it Look for massive Rep victories in 2010-12. NT

[depakid]

19. I'd actually settle for strong insurance regulation in a separate bill at this point

Let the Republicans and corrupt right wing Dems go on record hollering, screaming and blocking legislation on that- then press on with additional reforms.

Puts the onus where it belongs (in other words- not on Obama and the Democratic wing of the party).

[mvd]

31. That would also be good

BTW, can they filibuster the bill again after conference is done with it?

[janet118]

27. Nelson has already said . . .

it's the Senate bill, as is, or he's going to filibuster . . . I imagine Lieberweasel will follow suit.

[Username 12]

12. I'm lucky

I have good health insurance, and there's a 95 percent chance I'll continue to have it. But I do not envy the people on the margins!

[dkf]

17. Do you really have good health insurance or have you enjoyed pretty good health so far?

You don't know how good or bad it is until you have something really serious. I know Medicare comes through because I saw my dad's bills when he had septicimia. My own insurance has gone for pretty minimal visits for colds and allergies so yeah it seems ok.

[coti]

14. Not to mention those on DU who back it.

:)

[gravity]

16. Who doesn't want insurance?

Having health insurance is a good thing and the overwhelming majority of Americans want good coverage.

[cabluedem]

20. Clue: this wont be good coverage, just expensive. nt

[gravity]

21. It will be better than their current coverage

and no evidence that it will raise costs above the current system.

[depakid]

26. You think insurers will keep premiums down and expand coverage

decreasing (or holding the line) deductibles, copays and exclusions out of the goodness of their hearts?

I guess if one buys what the President said- that "these aren't bad people" it might be plausible, though every bit of evidence over the years proves otherwise.

[gravity]

28. But how does that different than the current system?

And the new legislation has much greater regulation on the insurance industry, which is why the insurance lobbies oppose the bill.

[depakid]

29. Insurance stocks have been skyrocketing- which should tell you something

How it differs from the current system is that people are forced to buy a (likely a high deductible, 20% copay) product for which there aren't any significant price controls- and which will worsen in quality and value over time- and on which, under the current bill allows the industry to skirt existing state regulations and mandates.

[subterranean]

30. The insurance lobbies didn't oppose the bill.

They opposed the inclusion of a non-profit public option in the bill.

[cabluedem]

40. Which many of us cant afford now. nt

[jtrockville]

22. I don't. I want good health care. Health insurance is a SCAM.

[treestar]

23. There are complaints about Medicare too

anything run by a bureaucracy is treated that way but tolerated, because there is an up-side.

[Odin2005]

32. This POS will destroy the Democratic party.

It plays right into the hands of the teabaggers calling Dems "Fascist" and "Communist", and with regards to the mandate they would be right.

[Vidar]

33. Apparently Obama didn't realize that "Billionaires for Wealthcare" were being satiric.

[joshcryer]

42. Zing.

But true.

[joeprogressive]

34. Exactly. All data indicates premiums will go up 50% in the

next 5-8 years. Guess who is going to get blamed for that?

[Divine Discontent]

38. that is why true cost controls in a single payer would have been nice... dammit, our party starts to

work on this seriously, and it gets watered down with a lot of crap, cost controls are removed, and yes, there's some very good things still in there, but the biggest point of this whole darned thing is the cost controls because insurance is going to balloon to where it's 20% of income to pay for the premiums for a lot of people - that's crazy.

[joshcryer]

41. LOL remember when HRCs "mandates" were political suicide?

Hahahaha