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brentspeak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-08-11 09:35 AM
Original message
Editorial: Obama plan hastens the end of Social Security


http://www.sunjournal.com/our-view/story/1084640

By Editorial Board
Published on Thursday, Sep 8, 2011 at 12:12 am | Last updated on Thursday, Sep 8, 2011 at 12:12 am

Tonight, President Barack Obama will almost certainly propose extending this year's payroll tax cut for employees.

While everyone likes paying lower taxes, working Americans should hold the applause. This is not a government "savings." It merely hastens the day that Social Security benefits will become unavailable to those same workers.

snip

It is now long forgotten that 42 percent of the $783 billion Obama stimulus program wasn't spending at all, but tax breaks for individuals and businesses over the next 10 years. That, apparently, was not enough to stimulate the economy so, in 2010, Obama proposed a one-year 2 percent cut in Social Security withholding taxes for employees to further stimulate the economy. We can now see how well that is working. The national unemployment rate is stuck at 9 percent, employers are no longer hiring, the stock market is in retreat and the economy is slowing. So tonight Obama will almost certainly propose renewing that tax cut, which diverts about $200 billion a year into the pockets of wage earners but out of the Social Security system. There is even a rumor afoot that he will match that tax cut with a 2 percent reduction of the employer side of the Social Security withholding tax.

Does anyone seriously believe that such temporary tax cuts will ever expire? Perhaps Obama has secretly come around to the position held by many Republicans, that Social Security is unsustainable and should be drastically curtailed or eliminated... Politicians say they are committed to preserving Social Security, then they turn around and vote to deprive the program of funding. It is the classic Washington switcheroo: claiming to giving a tax break with one hand while taking it away with the other. Some economists say the payroll tax cut does little to stimulate the economy and will actually have the opposite effect.


The payroll tax cut certainly hasn't done jack-squat to stimulate the economy since it was enacted. And more importantly, as the editorial above points out and the following article details, the payroll tax cut leaves Social Security itself clearly vulnerable to significant cuts in benefits and even future privatization and dismantlement:



http://thehill.com/homenews/house/133883-liberals-warn-payroll-tax-cut-threatens-social-security

Behind Rep. Lloyd Doggett (D-Texas), the Democrats maintain the one-year payroll-tax holiday will likely be extended in future years, leaving Social Security to compete with other programs for funding — and threatening seniors' benefits over the long haul.

snip

"There is a real danger … that it will be changed into a permanent deduction," said Max Richtman, executive vice president of the National Committee to Preserve Social Security and Medicare, an advocacy group.

The Congressional Budget Office (CBO) estimates the cut will reduce federal revenues by $112 billion over the next two years. Because the tax package is not offset by changes elsewhere in the budget, the government will have to borrow to fill that hole in the Social Security trust fund.

With the country's newfound focus on deficit reduction, the liberals said, backfilling the trust fund with borrowed money will leave Social Security vying for funds against other discretionary programs, like public television and national parks.


FDR in his worst nightmares never imagined that it would be a (nominal) Democratic president who would be the "damn politician" he warned us against:



http://mobile.salon.com/politics/war_room/2010/12/10/zelizer_social_security_tax/index.html

A key reason for the program's strength has been the sanctity of the Social Security tax, which has been treated as a special tax, distinct from income and corporate taxes, on the grounds that it is linked to a specific government benefit. Every year, Congress uses the funds collected from payroll tax contributions of workers to pay for the benefits of current retirees. "With those damn taxes in there," Franklin Roosevelt once declared, "no damn politician will ever scrap my Social Security program."
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Tarheel_Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-08-11 09:37 AM
Response to Original message
1. >>>>
:rofl:
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Enrique Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-08-11 09:41 AM
Response to Reply #1
4. goddamn that's obnoxious
Obama supporters might want to say something about this type of thing, it reflects badly on Obama.
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Tarheel_Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-08-11 10:02 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. >>>>
:spray:
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dionysus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-08-11 10:54 AM
Response to Reply #6
20. you got me AGAIN! that's IT! you're goin down... PUT EM UP!1!1

:hi:
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CakeGrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-08-11 10:04 AM
Response to Reply #4
7. Maybe some of these doomsday articles are simply laughable.
Countdown to attempts to have emoticons removed because some people find them too upsetting...
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-08-11 10:08 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Hutzpa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-08-11 10:15 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. Please explain to the slow ones amongst us how is laughing
considered disruptive? :shrug:
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dionysus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-08-11 11:20 AM
Response to Reply #4
23. .
:spray:
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Number23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-08-11 06:19 PM
Response to Reply #4
46. TarheelDem's posts reflect badly on OBAMA?
:wtf: :wtf: :wtf:

Surely you cannot be serious?
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Peacetrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-08-11 06:40 PM
Response to Reply #46
49. ROFL
The new meme.. any support of the President reflects badly on the President..
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bigdarryl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-08-11 09:38 AM
Response to Original message
2. If Obama messes with Social Security HE'S DONE!!!!!
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trueblue2007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-08-11 11:21 AM
Response to Reply #2
24. oh gees you people... the president is not going to end social security. media pundits are morons
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polmaven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-08-11 02:55 PM
Response to Reply #24
36. Worse than that!!
Many of them are way into morAn territory!
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SidDithers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-08-11 11:45 AM
Response to Reply #2
28. And if he doesn't mess with it, we're going to PRETEND HE DID!!!!...nt
Sid
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Larkspur Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-08-11 09:39 AM
Response to Original message
3. I definitely agree. Obama prefers Reagan to FDR and that is the problem
Obama will be the Democratic Party's undoing. That's the goal of the Wrong Way or "Wall Street" Democrats.
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Tarheel_Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-08-11 02:48 PM
Response to Reply #3
35. Ah, that's what Nader told us about Gore. Gore=Bush. Remember that?
I know many here hope that "Obama will be the undoing of the Democratic Party", but this party got through a DLC president for 8 yrs, who got us to such a point of prosperity that the more liberal among us felt the need to run a vanity campaign against his VP. :crazy:

I think the Democratic Party will survive. :hi:
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frazzled Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-08-11 09:47 AM
Response to Original message
5. The same Editorial board that endorsed McCain in 08
Don't cite this crap to us.

Paul Krugman, among other liberal economists, thought a payroll tax cut or holiday would be a good idea.
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brentspeak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-08-11 10:16 AM
Response to Reply #5
11. Which has apparently moved to the left ever since
Edited on Thu Sep-08-11 10:28 AM by brentspeak
http://www.sunjournal.com/our-view/story/1074623">Lewiston Sun-Journal Editorial Board: Republican plan for redistricting is far too radical

BTW, did Lloyd Doggett, Ted Deutch, and Rush Holt endorse McCain in 2008? How much job stimulus has the payroll tax cut accomplished so far?

Finally, was this you on the subject of Paul Krugman just two months ago?



http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=433&topic_id=720712&mesg_id=720793

frazzled Donating Member (1000+ posts) Sun Jul-24-11 11:02 PM
Response to Original message
24. Krugman has never won ANY election.

A bit disingenuous of him to say "OK, I've never won a tough election." He's never run for office period, nor held any elective or even appointed office.

Look, I respect Paul Krugman for his academic career. He's a Nobel Prize winner for goodness sake. But like most economists he's purely a theorist. He (Krugman) has absolutely no clue about how things run in the real world. Really and truly none whatsoever.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-08-11 12:26 PM
Response to Reply #5
32. Well, when
campaigning against the President, one needs allies.

When the EPI stated that the debt ceiling deal could result in the loss of 1.8 million jobs, the news was all over the blogs. Think Progress:



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Whisp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-08-11 10:05 AM
Response to Original message
8. you should really look into who you use as a source
to support your hopes.

but semi-nice try seeing as you are getting low on ammo.

:rofl:

unrec
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Hutzpa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-08-11 10:24 AM
Response to Original message
12. I will laugh at this too
knowing the timing is suspect considering the Republican debate was yesterday and candidate Perry categorically stated that
Social Security is a PONZI scheme, so yes it is laughable to see an article such as this attacking Obama on squashing social
security.


:rofl:
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jefferson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-08-11 10:27 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. Convenient, huh?
OP FAIL.
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Tarheel_Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-08-11 11:13 AM
Response to Reply #13
22. >>>>>
:thumbsup:
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-08-11 10:30 AM
Response to Reply #12
16. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-08-11 10:55 AM
Response to Reply #16
21. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
brentspeak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-08-11 11:31 AM
Response to Reply #12
26. "The timing is suspect"
What's happening tonight???
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bhikkhu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-08-11 10:27 AM
Response to Original message
14. Doom-mongering...raise the cap and its "fixed"
or do nothing and its fine for decades, or any number of other things. I don't like the idea of lowering the payroll tax, but it does have the advantage of "redistributing" wealth in the right direction, and there are plenty of easy ways to strengthen SS in the long term that allow it.

Anyone talking about the end of SS is likely looking forward to it for ideological reasons, rather than looking at all the easy ways to keep it.
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brentspeak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-08-11 11:29 AM
Response to Reply #14
25. I wouldn't mind lowering the payroll tax if the cap were simultaneously raised/eliminated
Your point there is valid.

But your accusation concerning those "talking about the end of SS" (because of the payroll tax cut) is way out of line: it's absolutely appropriate -- necessary, really -- to make it clear that Social Security's future is endangered by forcing the program to dip into the general fund.
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TheKentuckian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-08-11 02:59 PM
Response to Reply #14
37. How is this redistributing anything? Upper incomes get more benefit and the deal is unfunded.
This money isn't coming from the wealthy.
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bhikkhu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-09-11 09:43 AM
Response to Reply #37
51. Payroll tax only comes from the first $106k of wages paid
...so if you are making more than than, you are paying no tax on it, and if you are taking income from capital gains, you are paying no tax on that either. If it weren't to fund SS, payroll tax would be denigrated here as thoroughly regressive - where a whole system is built to benefit all, and is paid for disproportionately by the lower and middle classes.

To make it more fair would be to first lower the burden on the majority, then raise the wage cap so incomes above $106k are taxed as well. I haven't read the bill as to whether that's how its funded, but virtually every other way of funding the cut would be more equitable.
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bornskeptic Donating Member (951 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-08-11 10:30 AM
Response to Original message
15. Since the payroll tax holiday has no effect on the funding of Social Security
This article is well-deserving of ridicule.
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brentspeak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-08-11 10:37 AM
Response to Reply #15
18. Either you forgot to actually read the articles
Or you forgot to use the "sarcasm" smilie.

But if you did read the articles, and you didn't forget to use the sarcasm smilie, kindly change your avatar from FDR, to, I don't know...Milton Friedman.
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bornskeptic Donating Member (951 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-08-11 11:58 AM
Response to Reply #18
30. I read enough of the first article to see that it was idiotic.
I assumed that the rest was probably nonsense about people not wanting Social Security anymore if it was 15% funded from the general fund like half of Medicare and all of Medicaid are, so I didn't bother to look at it.
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jefferson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-08-11 10:32 AM
Response to Original message
17. ALERT: Right Wing Rag doesn't like Obama! --- "Sun Journal: McCain has credentials to lead nation"
LSJ: McCain has credentials to lead nation

Sunday, October 26, 2008

The Sen. John McCain of the recent past can successfully lead the United States into the future as president.

Candidate McCain must shed the baggage that burdens his status as presidential contender and the compromising air he wears like an ill-fitting suit, and be true to his personal tenacity, honesty and candor.

We think that man, the maverick senator - renewed and reinvigorated- is ready for residency in the White House

http://www.asmainegoes.com/content/lewiston-sun-journal-endorses-mccain
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brentspeak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-08-11 10:43 AM
Response to Reply #17
19. Three years later: "Sun Journal: Republican plan for redistricting is far too radical"
Lewiston Sun-Journal Editorial Board: http://www.sunjournal.com/our-view/story/1074623">Republican plan for redistricting is far too radical

Nice try at avoiding discussion of the issue by attempting to discredit the source as "RW".

Foiled again.
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JoePhilly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-08-11 11:39 AM
Response to Original message
27. If Obama plans to end social security ... he SUCKS at it!!!
These endless predictions about how Obama is about to end social security pop up right before he makes any major speech, the pattern is laughable.

This year alone ...

1) Jan State of the Union ... "Obama's absolutely positively going to Slash / Gut Social Security!!!!" Didn't happen.

2) Feb budget ... "Obama's absolutely positively going to Slash / Gut Social Security!!!!" Didn't happen.

3) April Deficit speech ... "Obama's absolutely positively going to Slash / Gut Social Security!!!!" Didn't happen.

4) June / July defiect ceiling fight ... "Obama's absolutely positively going to Slash / Gut Social Security!!!!" Didn't happen.

5) Sept Jobs speech .... "Obama's absolutely positively going to Slash / Gut Social Security!!!!" Won't happen.

But hey, its a great way to whip up the hair on fire anti-Obama sentiment. So what if nothing actually happens.

The manufactured outrage is the entire point.
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brentspeak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-08-11 11:46 AM
Response to Reply #27
29. December, 2010: Obama enacts payroll tax "holiday"
Leaving Social Security http://mobile.salon.com/politics/war_room/2010/12/10/zelizer_social_security_tax/index.html">vulnerable for later attacks upon it.

September, 2011: Obama http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-09-08/obama-seeks-payroll-tax-cut-for-small-businesses-administration-memo-says.html">proposes to extend payroll tax "holiday".

Nothing "manufactured" about those statements of fact.
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JoePhilly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-08-11 03:22 PM
Response to Reply #29
39. Which of those cuts Social Security in any way ... ??????
Edited on Thu Sep-08-11 03:24 PM by JoePhilly
Social Security is ALWAYS vulnerable because the GOP HATES it!!!!!!

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woo me with science Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-08-11 03:51 PM
Response to Reply #39
44. Obama put it on the table,
and Obama stood up repeatedly and defended benefit cuts.

At a certain point, people grow weary of and angry about the disingenuousness of Third Way politicians who claim to support the same goals and values as traditional Democrats, but follow a Third Way agenda.

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Tarheel_Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-08-11 01:04 PM
Response to Reply #27
33. "manufactured"
:applause:
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JoePhilly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-08-11 03:25 PM
Response to Reply #33
40. No other word for it.
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woo me with science Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-08-11 03:46 PM
Response to Reply #27
43. Bullshit. Social Security was never offered up before by any President to be used as a hostage,
Edited on Thu Sep-08-11 03:47 PM by woo me with science
and that is exactly what was done by President Obama in the austerity negotiations.

And they, meaning the corporate-backed Republicans and the corporate-backed Third Way Democrats, will continue to do it.

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Number23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-08-11 06:21 PM
Response to Reply #27
47. Go get'em, Joe!
If Obama plans to end social security ... he SUCKS at it!!!

:spray:
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-08-11 11:59 AM
Response to Original message
31. Kicked and recommended!
This will do nothing to stimulate the economy. And that isn't its true purpose anyway. It's time for Democrats to wake up and realize the truth about this President.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-08-11 01:11 PM
Response to Original message
34. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
woo me with science Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-08-11 03:16 PM
Response to Original message
38. He is the first President who has offered Social Security to be a hostage and a bargaining chip
Edited on Thu Sep-08-11 03:20 PM by woo me with science
in austerity negotiations.

No, it is not a joke when this President threatens Social Security and publicly lauds the idea of cutting benefits in his addresses to the American people.

The payroll tax cut is more Third Way garbage.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=1660734&mesg_id=1661130



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JoePhilly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-08-11 03:26 PM
Response to Reply #38
41. Yea, the GOP would NEVER attack Social Security if not for Obama!!!!!
:rofl:
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woo me with science Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-08-11 03:41 PM
Response to Reply #41
42. What an irrelevant comment. nt
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JoePhilly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-08-11 05:46 PM
Response to Reply #42
45. You misspelled "accurate". nt
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woo me with science Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-08-11 07:58 PM
Response to Reply #45
50. I-R-R-E-L-E-V-A-N-T
and oh so predictable.
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Autumn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-08-11 06:35 PM
Response to Original message
48. Well listening to his speech, this was right
cut the pay roll taxes in half and that will really help the de funding of SS.
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