Rigging the 2012 Election

[AnnieK401]

Is anyone else concerned about reports I keep hearing that Republican controlled state legislatures and Governors in key "swing" states all over the country (including here in FL.) are attempting to make it more difficult or impossible for Democrats to win in the election next yr.? Just yesterday it was reported that Republicans in Pennsylvania are trying to pass some bogus bill to split their electoral votes between the 2 candidates based on Congressional districts. Other "battleground" states could follow. I posted some information on FB about this, but even my liberal friends haven't responded. Elections in key states are likely to be very close, and these new voter suppression and possible electoral split laws could make a huge difference. Do we really want to wake up the morning after the election and realize that there will now be a President Perry? Can we stand by and let this happen without a fight?

[scheming daemons]

1. How do we fight it? Courts? Recalls?

[COLGATE4]

14. There's no way to fight it in the courts. Under the Constitution, it's

perfectly legal for the Rethugs in power in PA (and other states, once PA suceeds) in pulling this off. It's a very troubling possibility and the only way I can see for us to fight it is for this to get a big deal in the press as being fundamentally unfair and undemocratic. However, fat chance with MSM taking up that fight. I am very concerned.

[GSLevel9]

16. but as long as Nebraska and Maine have it... tough to argue against it. nt

[no_hypocrisy]

2. Welcome to DU.

I share your concern very much.

But our options are limited. These changes are permitted. And there's enough time between now and November, 2012 to change rules of a substantial number of states.

Once it's changed, all you can do is vote out the officeholders who voted for change -- and try to change it back. If it's possible.

[HockeyMom]

3. This is the latest on what is happening in Florida

http://www.miamiherald.com/2011/09/09/2398772/judge-dismisses-redistricting.html

[elocs]

4. "Bogus bill"? How so? We may not like it, but I've read it is legal & legitimate.

How are Republicans legally or legitimately obligated to make it easier for Democrats to win elections?

Democrats are losing this battle because we approach it like it is a contest with our noble and righteous attitude about fair play and Republicans look at this for the war it is to control this nation and they will do any and everything to prevail and to crush Democrats and Democratic ideals and programs.

Yes, we need to fight, but we can't use Marquis of Queensbury rules while Republicans employ street fight tactics. Where and when Democrats have power they need to ruthlessly crush Republicans in the same way they would do to Democrats.

Specifically on the subject of electoral votes: I don't know why Democrats have not been fighting tooth and nail for the last 10 years to get rid of the Electoral College after Gore got the most popular votes yet lost the election.

[AnnieK401]

5. To clarify

I did not mean the bill was not legal or legitimate. I was using the term loosely, OK maybe too loosely for some. However, you make some excellent points and I agree that we should not be using Marquis of Queensbury rules while the Republicans are using street fighting tactics. Thanks for your response.

[HockeyMom]

6. Let me give you a local districting example

I live in Naples, Florida, which is Red. Why? Let me explain. While there are a lot of rich retired people in certain parts, there is an area, Golden Gate, which is overwhelmingly minority, poor, and heavily Democratic. So how does a Republican always win here? Because this section of Naples is districted into MIAMI. Get a map. Naples is on the Gulf coast and Miami is on the Atlantic coast. Basically, they are stacking the deck to keep electing Republicans. I live on the border of this area, which is more mixed, but still very much working families, and not rich Republicans. I suppose they are worried that my area is becoming more Democratic, so guess what they want to do? You got it; redistrict it into Golden Gate, and MIAMI. The good old boys (Connie Mack) want to keep their "city" RED, anyway they can. If this can be done at the local level, why wouldn't they try to do it on a state level to try to stack the deck for Republicans?

[RockaFowler]

7. My district, too

It runs from Port St Lucie on the east Coast to Lee County on the West Coast. Makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. Plus I have a dick as a Congressman - Rooney. The worst Rep ever - the do-nothing guy - the guy who wrote one of the rudest letters ever to me his constituent. Just wonderful Repukes in this area

[elocs]

8. If Republicans can legally do it, why shouldn't they? Elections have consequences

beyond the election of the particular winners.

On a federal level, the president gets to pick members of the Supreme Court which impacts the nation for maybe decades.

On a state level, the party which wins elections and controls the state will have the power over redistricting which will help their party to retain power and impact many elections.

Democrats should have been and need to be smarter than Republicans and need to be much better at anticipating their moves. If there is a weapon or a method that Democrats would not employ because we righteously see it as unfair or not right, Republicans will not hesitate to grab that weapon or use that method against Democrats.

Republicans seem to constantly have Democrats on the defensive, far too often to be reacting to what Republicans do, allowing them to define us, to define terms, and to define and control the debate itself.

If we don't take the fight to them and treat this battle like the war it is to control this county, then in 30 years when minorities will collectively be a majority in this country, Republicans (the White & Rich Party of America) will be running the U.S. like an apartheid South Africa.

[eomer]

10. In Florida we recently passed a Constitutional amendment making those manipulations illegal.

http://www.floridaredistricting.org/Handlers/HouseContentDocumentRetriever.ashx?Leaf=housecontent/redistricting/Lists/Legal%20Resources/Attachments/16/LearnAboutFloridaConstitutionalProvisionsonRedistricting.pdf

[HockeyMom]

12. I voted for that amendment

precisely for the reaons I stated, but that amendment is being challenged in the courts now.

[Turbineguy]

9. Take out insurance.

Invest in mortuaries and cemeteries.

There's no reason we shouldn't make some money out of this.

[GSLevel9]

11. I understand your concern but it IS LEGAL. nt

[HockeyMom]

13. Not in Florida because the PEOPLE voted

on an amendment to the state constitution to prevent it. They are trying to have this overturned by courts, but so far, the ruling is that the citizens vote IS constitutional. The only way to overturn it by another amendment voted by the people to repeal it.

[GSLevel9]

15. well good... but how can voters pass an amendment to the state constitution?

Doesn't the state legislature have to do that?

[HockeyMom]

17. The legislature submits it for the ballot

but the state constitution here can only be amended by a vote of of the people.

[GSLevel9]

18. I like that! nt

[eomer]

20. Citizens can also place an amendment on the ballot.

Without looking it up, I'm sure this one was a citizen initiative that the legislature had no role in. The Republican-controlled Florida legislature never would have put this one on the ballot.

[sofa king]

19. I think they have a larger plan....

Especially in Florida and Wisconsin, the GOP is specifically trying to disenfranchise the poor.

But unfortunately for them, much of their own voting base is comprised of people on the picture-menu side of the bell curve (seriously, like 2/3 of regularly voting Republicans are doofuses).

They're getting fired more often, losing their homes more often, and sliding into poverty more often, and dying much younger (shhh, don't tell, but life expectancy is quickly dropping in Republican states). Their antipathy for government makes it less likely they'll jump through the bureaucratic hoops placed before them, and less likely to be competent enough to pass through them if they try.

So you kind of have to ask yourself, why in the hell would Republicans do this if they're targeting their own knuckle-dragging voting base? But all one really has to do is look at recent election histories of the states enacting these laws to see something interesting:

Florida: stolen, 2000.
Ohio: stolen, 2004.
Wisconsin: stolen, this year.

Looks to me like the Republicans have a more complicated plan than merely disenfranchising the poor....