Here's the problem with the bogus claim that people will be jailed over mandates.

[ProSense]

It assumes that most people who now have health insurance (paying into the status quo) are going to drop it because it will be mandated. It also assumes that the uninsured who want to obtain coverage will refuse it because of the mandate.

Who exactly will be opting out of insurance because it's mandated?

[Oregone]

1. Why do you carry water for the mandate?

Didn't you tell me no one cared if it was dropped from the bill before? Seems like you care now.

Either you are shilling now or were lying then. Which is it?

[ProSense]

2. Why do you accept bogus claims? n/t

[Oregone]

4. Strawman. Where am I accepting a bogus claim?

On the otherhand, I can quote you talking down the importance of madates this summer.








:)

[Aramchek]

5. why did you abandon your Country?

[Oregone]

10. It smelled like cat piss

Is providing intelligent advice to the idiocracy really abandoning it? Come on now

[Aramchek]

17. what do you care about this 'shithole' anyways?

[Oregone]

18. Humans live there.

They may cheer when the government says, "It puts the lotion on", but hell, you don't even treat animals that bad.

[dflprincess]

3. What happens if you can't afford to buy your mandated insurance? n/t

[gravity]

6. What happens if you can't afford to pay your taxes?

[Orangepeel]

23. they garnish your wages or put a lien on your house n/t

[Garam_Masala]

25. You can always afford to pay your taxes

because taxes are always way lower than your gross income.

Mandates on the other hand can take a big chunk out of your income
with no regard to your level of income.

[niceypoo]

33. My neighbor lost her house

...because she couldnt afford to pay her taxes

[Garam_Masala]

40. You are talking about different taxes, like property tax?

I was thinking income tax.

But, yes, property tax is a cruel joke.

[Oregone]

8. You always can, unless you are worried about social mobility

Do your kids really need to go to college though? Oh the middle class...always whining.




I shouldn't need a sarcasm tag Id hope.

[ProSense]

9. Which group are you in

The group with insurance (how are you paying for it now) now or the uninsured (credits and subsidies)?

[dflprincess]

21. My employer now offers a "consumer driven health plan" scam

and, as of January 1 it will have an annual out of pocket of at least $3,700. There will be a $1,200 deductible so nothing (but a couple preventative test) gets paid for until I run up at least that much in out of pocket expenses. This applies to prescriptions as well though I'm lucky in that I only have one and it is generic so I will be able to afford it. Of course, should my doctor decide I need something like a bone density test, that will not be covered, not will it apply to the deductible.

I've recently been having a few problems, and I've told my doctor we have 1 more week to get to the bottom of things, because I won't have the money for any more testing after the first of the year - at least for a few months after I have managed to put some money into my "health savings account" (another part of this scam).

But, according to the Feds, I make too much to be deserving of any subsidies. I'm in that gray area between 400% of the poverty level and "money is no object".

[EmeraldCityGrl]

24. I'm in the same boat.

I think my company is going to opt out of any type of coverage forcing
me into buying mandated insurance or the alternative...oh yeah, there is no alternative.:banghead:

[liberalmike27]

19. I've been wonder that myself

They say you can't squeeze water from a turnip, nor money from someone to buy insurance, that has no money. You've got about the same chance of getting people to buy insurance that have no money.

Dean is right--this bill needs killin', or perhaps they should just leave everything else in it, and remove the forcing and fining, of buying into insurance, or else.

Then prices, with no top end, nothing to keep them down, will cause massive numbers of folks to get rid of insurance, and make many businesses give up providing it too.

And the damage to the economy too, as all that money that would've flowed into buying product, is redirected into insurance companies, at 3x the premiums they are getting this year.

Democrats are going to own this steamy, stoolie, pile of shit. As time passes, it's going to stink worse.

[Hippo_Tron]

27. There's an exemption for low income people

If you don't meet that qualification and don't buy insurace and don't pay the tax then the IRS could possibly garnish your wages. If people don't think that's fair then they should attack the bill based on that. Prison time is ridiculous fearmongering.

[704wipes]

42. and probably WITHHELD TAX REFUNDS for any

who have a refund coming and did not buy insurance. Oh, the penalty $$ will be with held from your refund. They will get it from a lot of people that way.

[ShortnFiery]

7. You are unbelievable. Of course when you "gift" the Insurance Cartel with all this power ...

you better damn well bet, they'll use it to squeeze every EXTRA PENNY from Middle Class America until we are a Third World Country. Not unlike the MIC who needs *COUNTRIES* to test out their expensive weapons and munitions, the Insurance Cartel will SKIM ALL OUR TAX DOLLARS out of the Middle Class ... until we are a fully economic Fascist Country. Then there will be "the ultra-rich," a small "merchant class" and the vast majority of Americans will fall within "the peasant class."

[ProSense]

11. "Of course when you "gift" the Insurance Cartel with all this power" as

opposed to the completely private corrupt runaway system that's currently in place?

It's a completely ridiculous argument to claim that moving away from the status quo is equal to or worse than the status quo.

[Oregone]

13. Your mandating that "completely private corrupt runaway system"

Then cutting it a couple million government checks.

[ProSense]

16. Bogus. n/t

[ima_sinnic]

31. oh, so there ARE stringent insurance co regulations in the bill?

the amount of profit they can make is set?

I didn't think so.

we went from one "private corrupt runaway system" to another--only this time, we MUST submit to it!

bite it.

[tmyers09]

12. Maybe

It's the people who don't get employer provided insurance, and are just above the point so they can't get any subsidies. If they're already struggling as it is, however much the fine is simply may be too much for them to bear.

[ProSense]

15. There are still

opportunities to apply for help. There was an affordability test, but regardless the assumption is that the government is going to mandate health care and show up the door of people who are struggling and arrest them. That's ludicrous.

At the very least, there are more health care clinics, more opportunities for coverage and more help.

[bluedigger]

14. I don't need health insurance. I need health care.

[WyldRogue]

36. Exactly...

...what some fail to notice is that this is NOT HCR but rather HIR (Health Insurance Reform)that loops back in favor of the insurance monopolies.

So much for the HCR lip service only to watch it devolve into Insurance Reform that WILL work against hard working Americans who need every dime just to keep their families afloat with no new jobs and no help coming.

We are looking like fools being forced to swallow a Frankenstein bill....

Not one dime is going to any of these so called Democrats. I am sure they got enough backroom money from the very people they truly represented in this so called 'HCR fight'.

Never have I been more disappointed with the Democratic leaderships in all 3 Houses in all the years I've voted Democratic :rant:

[truedelphi]

38. Thank you Wyld Rogue. n/t

[boppers]

20. I opt out of lots of scams and ponzi schemes.

I'll find a way to opt out of this one, as well... I don't *want* to pay into broken medical systems, especially ones that avoid treating major medical problems (like over half the country being ridiculously overweight).

[katandmoon]

22. What DOES happen to people who don't purchase insurance?

[jonnyblitz]

26. i keep checking back to see if somebody answers you.

there has to be some repurcussion or why even have them?

[Hippo_Tron]

28. You have to pay a tax (if your income is above a cerain level)

If you don't pay the tax you could possibly have your wages garnished. A tiny tiny tiny tiny fraction of people with IRS issues go to prison and it's not because they can't pay.

[ima_sinnic]

32. I heard the penalty would be 2.5% of income

for me, that would certainly be more affordable than a compulsory contribution to the insurance co CEO welfare fund.
of course, I still wouldn't have access to health care.

but it's real cute the way we have no "leader" explaining anything to us. All we can do is speculate until the big "unveiling." How can We The People make informed decisions about a bill we know nothing about? We're supposed to "trust" our "representatives" in Congress to make those decisions for us. That has worked out soooo well.

[NashVegas]

34. When Dean Was Governor Of Vermont

He sent representatives to every town in the state to explain exactly what was being proposed AND the mechanics of it.

[ima_sinnic]

35. I really think they don't want us to know too much

if the people really knew about the shit sandwich being handed to them, heads might roll (I say "might" only because I've come to regard too many Americans as passive sheeple who are content as long as their boobtube and fast food restaurants are readily available). I'd love to see the guillotines come out (ahem--er, "figuratively" of course :evilgrin: )

[truedelphi]

39. Ima I fell asleep the other night after reading the news

I had just read that the Congress had passed a defense bill and that 168 Billion of it was earmarked for our deployments in Iraq and Afghanistan.

I fell asleep very troubled.

When I woke up it hit me - the cost of our Demployments are only two billion more than the costs of the penalties to be put on us when we do not cough up enough for this insurancereform.

Coincidence? or are the insurance penalties just stuff that will end up finacing more wars!

[704wipes]

43. my guess is if you owe a penalty, then no tax refunds 4 u !

Assuming you have a tax refund coming, and you did not buy insurance. They will just take the penalty out of your refund. Oh you were only due a $400 refund? That's ok, they will consider it settled.

[Clio the Leo]

29. thank you NT

[ipaint]

30. The republicans love to punish people.

Wait till they are back in charge, mainly as a result of this scam ins. reform, they'll be more than happy to up the penalty. Do you really think they won't send you to jail.

Get rid of the mandate. The insurance companies kill hundreds of thousands of americans for profit and reform consists of a mandate that more people buy their shitty life taking product. A product there is absolutely no need for.

Except of course if you are an investor. Then apparently health care is the place to be in the foreseeable future.

People didn't abuse ins. companies before they started killing people by denying care to increase shareholder profit. The ins. companies are the criminals here and we get punished with a mandate. And what is the mandate ultimately going to do- increase shareholder profit.

Brilliant.

In mass. 21% of the people still can't afford health care.
http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/12/17/21-of-people-in-ma-still-forgo-necessary-medical-care/

Those are the people that will fall through the massive cracks in this bogus reform.

As a long time uninsured person this bill stinks. They throw a bone to folks like me so people like the op can bash everyone's heads in with it in order to get the ins. cartel their massive increase in stolen taxpayer loot. All of a sudden people like the op are worried about all us "poor" folk. Well where were you for the last 30 years while dems and repubs tore us apart and threw us to gutter. That's right doing exactly what your doing now, pretending you give a shit.

[Bluenorthwest]

37. If I made money because people were forced to give me

custom, I'd feel very badly about that, even if those people were not jailed, but 'merely' garnished or fined or otherwise compelled to pay me. But that's just me.

[Waiting For Everyman]

41. If that's so, then why have a mandate at all?

Evidently it's meant to apply to someone.