Bill Clinton just gave President Obama more support than I've seen Obama get from anyone lately

[mtnsnake]

on Meet the Press.

When asked about James Carville's latest comments that President Obama should panic and fire some people, Clinton pretty much ignored what Carville said and went into a crystal clear explanation how it usually takes 5 years to start healing an economy that is as bad as the one Obama inherited from Bush. PLUS, he stressed that we found out a short time into Obama's first year that the situation that Obama inherited from Bush was even MORE drastic than anyone ever realized.

When asked about Obama's shrinking poll numbers, Clinton told Gregory in not so many words that poll numbers in a time like this are perfectly normal and nothing to be worried about. The numbers rise and fall and rise. He said Obama has an excellent jobs plan that will work and that as long as he pushes hard for it, the voters will see who is trying to fix this country (Obama) and who isn't (made strong reference to Republicans).

Failing to get Clinton to criticize Obama with some other questions, Gregory then mentioned how Hillary's poll numbers were so high right now and how a large number of polled Democrats said they wished she was President instead of Obama. Clinton gave a magnificent response, pretty much saying that the reason she is so much more popular right now is because she is NOT the President and Barack Obama IS the President who got left with an incredibly tough situation that developed over the 8 years previous to him taking over. He said how it's so much easier when you're out of the Presidential swing of things to be more popular.

The more that David Gregory tried to bait Clinton into criticizing Obama, the more that Clinton explained why Obama was on the right track now with a very solid jobs plan, and how he could certainly win re-election as long as he pushed hard for this fine plan.

The media always tries so hard to create a rift between the Clintons and Obama, and Bill Clinton would have absolutely none of it today on Meet the Press.

You just don't get any more supportive of President Obama than what Bill Clinton showed this morning.

[Coexist]

1. I'm sorry... I just did -1 instead of +1

thank you for posting this.

[yodermon]

2. gotcha, +1

[Coexist]

6. thanks!

[obxhead]

3. Coming from the President that signed the largest job exporting bill

in modern times, that really doesn't mean shit imo.

[phleshdef]

12. He also oversaw the largest domestic jobx expansion of recent times.

So it not meaning shit to you makes you look rather stupid and very, very small.

[BlueMTexpat]

28. Great answer! nt

[Historic NY]

86. Yup.

[polmaven]

98. Ditto!

Sure is!

[roguevalley]

33. unless your industry was affected by NAFTA. NAFTA is a curse

on us all and a stain on clinton. No matter what else he did and he did plenty, that is a huge stain.

[phleshdef]

73. I don't care for NAFTA. But the overall numbers far outweigh the bad caused by NAFTA.

And you also have to consider how less impactful the consequences of NAFTA would seem had Clinton's economic policies in other areas had been continued 2000-2008. We'd have surpluses right now. Government would be financially equipped to do whatever it needed to do without deficit hawks having any real argument to hold it back.

[JDPriestly]

96. Clinton's tax policy should have been continued. That was one good

policy he got passed.

[MessiahRp]

38. How much of that was built off of the mass expansion of temp agencies or the dot com bubble

Which put a ton more people out of work and crushed the economy just as Clinton was getting out of office?

Temporary workers, part time workers, workers that made half as much as they used to thanks to being outsourced, downsized or laid off rapidly expanded under Clinton and only got worse when Bush was able to help accelerate it further.

Rp

[DemocratSinceBirth]

40. DUNO But I Do Know That The Poverty Level Was At It's Lowest In A Generation

And African American employment and home ownership was at it's highest.

Them's the facts.

[phleshdef]

55. Great, ignorant, right-wing, dot com bubble arguments are just what we need around here.

Heres the damn facts. Clinton oversaw the creation of 22 million jobs and that was not 22 million IT jobs. There was job growth all across the board, in every industry. And no, this was not a bunch of shitty, low wage job growth. Of course low wage jobs are GOING to grow when everything else does. Regardless, it was the most new jobs ever created under a single administration. Not the second most, not the third most. THE MOST. The median income for an average family rose $6,000 during Clinton's tenure. That means wages went up. And the poverty rate declined massively during his terms.

The friggin' dot com bubble created a lot of economic activity, and like all bubbles, it burst. But even after the bubble burst, only 400,000 directly related jobs were lost between 2000-2004. 400,000 out of the 22 million total that Clinton generated. Its of course, not good, that people lost jobs from the aftermath, but in the grand scheme of just the numbers, it means virtually nothing. And half of the companies created by the bubble survived after the burst. Just because the IT bubble didn't last forever doesn't mean it was a bad thing and using as a way to minimize the credit Bill Clinton should get for his handling of the economy is pure right wing bullshit.

But no matter how hard you try, you will never be successful in lessening the notion that Bill Clinton kicked the economy's ass into stellar shape and that he knows what he is talking about on a lot of these economic matters. I don't agree with everything he did with trade deals and such. But at the end of the day, he has a massive jobs record, poverty reduction record, wage growth record and deficit/surplus record to stand on. And thus Bill Clinton wins that argument because he has more to fucking show for it than pretty much anyone else. Definately more than you.

[eilen]

100. Oil prices were significantly lower then. nt

[Pirate Smile]

118. Some people seem invested in a very negative critique of both President Clinton and President Obama.

Anything negative is pushed. Anything positive is dismissed.

[eilen]

99. Tech Bubble anyone?

How about Healthsouth/Scrushy? also, issues with WTO (The Clinton administration negotiated a total of about 300 trade agreements with other countries) and Financial Services Modernization Act of 1999 as well as his "welfare reform" which ended AFDC.

[Mr Deltoid]

168. .com bubble accounted for a couple hundred thousand jobs

You sound like the republicans back in the 90s

[DemocratSinceBirth]

177. The Tech Bubble Created A Half Million Or So Jobs

How about the twenty eight other million jobs he created.

[Donnachaidh]

48. he lit the economic fuse that caused the sucking of jobs out of this country

And as to looking very small, that goes to the blinkered fans of celebrity that follows him. :eyes:

[phleshdef]

59. BS. If Clinton's approach would have been continued, we wouldn't be having these conversations.

I don't agree with NAFTA. But NAFTA is not the source of all our job problems. If government hadn't spent 8 years completely ignoring domestic economic policy (outside of tax cuts), then the consequences of NAFTA would barely be noticeable because it would've been couterbalanced by a government with a strong domestic economic policy. Not to mention, we would be experiencing surpluses right now, which changes pretty much everything anyway.

[Donnachaidh]

91. ahh -- but you see, those of us who are reality based, know better

"If Clinton's approach would have been continued"

It wasn't. And his signing of Nafta has caused MILLIONS of jobs to get sucked out of our country. the wars added to the problem, but millions would NOT be in the place they are if he'd refrained from signing trade deals that benefitted no one else but his elite brethren.

Deal with reality.

[phleshdef]

97. Reality based means you don't make up numbers.

NAFTA resulted in the loss of nearly 900,000 US jobs. Again, not good and I never said it was good. But compared to the 22 million generated by Bill Clinton, its definately overpowered when the subject is Clinton's overall record.

You are completely unable to refute the fact that Bill Clinton practiced domestic economic investment. You are completely unable to refute the fact that the Bush administration mostly ignored those same kind of investments. You are completely unable to refute the fact that had we continued that kind of domestic economic investments, the job situation would not be nearly as dire.

Spare me the cliche "reality based" nonsense. It will get you nowhere in an argument with me.

[dionysus]

163. pwnage

:thumbsup::thumbsup:

[eilen]

101. His deregulation approach was continued at

top speed and look, a mortgage bubble d/t unregulated derivative trading!

[Go2Peace]

123. You are incorrect. The late 90's was a temporary boost

We had incredible dominance in the IT industry. It was like the auto industry in our previous history. It sparked a surge.

And it would have lasted much longer, except for the policies that were put in place by the Clinton admin (and congress, they all get the blame).

I liked many things about Clinton, but he made serious mistakes. We need to recognize the impact of those. Our current policies will not work we regardless of whether a Clinton were at the helm, Pres. Obama, or anyone else. We have to make fundamental changes or we will continue to bleed profusely.

[phleshdef]

156. No, I'm not. And you are making shit up.

It wouldn't have lasted much longer. After Y2K fears were eased by the world not falling apart on New Years, the IT bubble burst. It had shit nothing to do with Clinton. You have no clue what you are talking about, you are just going along with what all the other wrong people on this board are pushing.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

62. I'll Bet Americans Would Give Their Collective Right Thumb To Get Back

-3.9% unemployment
-4.0% GDP growth
-the lowest level of African American unemployment in a generation
-the lowest poverty level in the history of the republic
-the longest economic expansion in the history of the republic
-the highest level of African American home ownership in history

[davidwparker]

81. +!

:toast:

[Donnachaidh]

93. too bad nafta wiped that list off the map, huh? n/t

[DemocratSinceBirth]

174. Here Are Several Indices

Life expectancy
Infant mortality
GDP Growth
Productivity
Abortion Rate
Unemployment
African American unemployment
African American home ownership
Percentage of Americans with health insurance
Poverty Rate
Minority poverty rate


Please tell me under which president in the modern era produced better results than William Jefferson Clinton. When you are talking about a president who made life better for juat about everyone you're talking about Bill Clinton.

When you look at Clinton's stewardship NAFTA is like a pimple on a elephant.

[Go2Peace]

124. It's impossible to "get it back". The IT industry that sparked it has been sold away

and the HUGE Capital that was created left the country already. You cannot get that back unless you reverse the policies. Even then, we will have a lot of work to regain the momentum that we lost.

[JCMach1]

142. And would have re-elected Clinton in 2000 with a landslide if he could have run

[davidwparker]

80. The '90's were fat for everybody. n/t

[KoKo]

109. Of course Clinton would support Obama...because Obama put in place Clinton III

using all the same folks Clinton listened to in his Second Administration to Deregulate Banks (undoing FDR's Group who instituted Glass-Steagall Act) Plus using DLC Tactics for FREE TRADE that demised Unions and sent jobs overseas..plus using Poppy Bush's "Opening of China to the World" to allow Wall Mart and Others to Offshore and then IMPORT CRAP and then the BANKSTERS to hook everyone in America...Old and Young onto Credit Card Debt (from Reagan through Clinton) and then the "CUP OF GRACE" to allow the Real Estate Market to FUCK EVERYONE!

Give me a break for whatever Clinton says. Guy dragged the Dem Party and those who supported him through MUCK with the Lewinsky cigar in clitoris affair...and then we "STUPID" supported him until the "Blue Dress" was shown to have his own DNA ON IT!

Disgusting. He's no better than "Dominique, Strauss-Kahn" now saying "It was Consentual ...and I apologize but the Animal Spirits took hold of me."

:puke:

[DemocratSinceBirth]

178. See Post One Hundred Seventy Four

Bill Clinton was the Michael Jordan of politics,

Re; The cigar reference. Bill Clinton wasn't the first man or woman to find interesting uses for cylindrical objects.

[Go2Peace]

121. Yes, primarily because of our dominance in IT.

IT companies were also into sharing the wealth with their employees at the time. That made the late 90's roar. But it was overcome by the globalist mistakes and our IT industry as well as our industrial capital flowed out of the country quickly afterwards. And Clinton's mistakes made the way for it!

[eridani]

144. Wrong. Homelessness, poverty and food stamp use skyrocketed

As did the number of prison inmates.

[phleshdef]

157. No, you are wrong. Poverty declined dramatically during Clinton's terms.

You are just making this shit up as you go along, admit it.

[dionysus]

164. you weren't there man.... you *had* to see the clinton era soup lines man, they were EVERYWHERE!!11!

;)

[phleshdef]

165. LOL. It caused a soup bubble. 22 million soup kitchen jobs were generated!

[dionysus]

166. big dawg had some bad policies, but to discount the 22 million jobs is just utterly, utterly bizarre

wierd isnt it?

[eridani]

173. Check out the evidence for yourself

Poverty rates are meaningless because how they are calculated has nothing to do with the real world. Expansions are useless if they don't benefit people at the bottom. If all that stuff is supposed to be "prosperity," how come an increase homelessness and food banks? Why would normal people give a flying fuck that a few people benefitted from the tech bubble? It's all been downhill for the bottom half since 1973, the peak postwar year for median income. That Clinton slowed down the slide is certainly better than not having done that, but it isn't anything to be ecstatic about either.

1. Homelessness

http://www.nhlp.org/html/hlb/299/299conference.htm.
http://www.geocities.com/Wellesley/9691/homelessnesshowmany.html

2. Food insecurity and use of food banks

http://www.seedsofchange.org/hunger_malnutrition.htm

Is the situation in the U.S. getting better or worse? "The U.S. Government just recently began gathering data on hunger and food insecurity. But the dramatic growth of private charitable feeding efforts since the late 1970s suggests growing hunger. . . . There were few in 1980, but an estimated 150 thousand private feeding agencies are . . . passing out food to hungry Americans ." (Beckman & Simon., p. 27) ". . . Catholic Charities, Lutheran Services of America, the Salvation Army and other assistance networks all reported sharp increases in requests for emergency food in the late 1990s . Catholic Charities reported a 26 percent increase between June 1997 and April 1998. The U.S. Conference of Mayors reported a 14 percent increase in requests for emergency assistance in 1998, and said that 21 percent of all requests went unmet." (Id., p. 29)


3. Prison population (continuing trend started by Reagan)

http://www.a1b2c3.com/drugs/law15.htm

As of June 1999, prisons and jails held 1,860,520 people, according to a Bureau of Justice Statistics report. That's an increase of more than a million people since 1985, when the figure was less 800,000.


4. Income disparity

http://pnews.org/ArT/YuR/DiS.shtml

During the years of the Clinton administration, the rich became richer at much faster rate than during Reagan's regime. In Clinton's first term, from 1993 to 1996, the average income of the richest five percent of households rose from $173,784 to $201,220. 46 Even during the Reagan years, the plunderers had not seen their income rise as fast. And in 1997 - the first year of Clinton's second term - it leapt to $215,436. All the statistics reveal that since Clinton has resided in the White House, the rich have experienced a financial bonanza unprecedented in modern times.


As economist Paul Krugman noted, "These widening disparities are often attributed to the increasing importance of education. But while it's true that, on average, workers with college education have done better than those without, the bulk of the divergence has been among those with similar levels of education. High-school teachers have not done as badly as janitors but they have fallen dramatically behind corporate CEOs, even though they have about the same amount of education." Insofar as corporate chief executives pay themselves and thus are able to collectively drive up the level of their own wages, thereby establishing the appearance of a "market-driven" norm, that should hardly be surprising.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

180. ????????????

The last significant decline in the poverty rate came in 2000, during the Clinton administration. In 2005, the poverty rate dipped from 12.7 percent to 12.6 percent, but Census officials said that change was statistically insignificant.

See, that got me thinking. If 2000 was the last time the poverty rate declined, how did it do under the entirety of Clinton’s presidency? It’s time for… a chart. Let’s start with 1989, the year George Bush Sr took office when poverty rates were at a record low, and move right on to this one.


http://hanlonsrazor.wordpress.com/2007/08/29/poverty-under-bush-poverty-under-clinton/

[eridani]

182. See post #173

Official poverty rate calculations are bullshit that have nothing to do with poor peoples' lives. Look at homelessness and food bank usage instead.

The poverty calculation assumes 1/3 of the family budget is food, when anyone with any common sense knows that the budget breakers are rent and utilities.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

184. I Agree That Government Statistics Are Flawed And Often Manipulated

I further agree that the 9.1% unemployment rate we currently "enjoy" is flipping laughable.

That being said there were less "poor" people during the Clinton administration then at any other time in the history of the republic.

[eridani]

185. But increasing homelessness and food bank usage. Go figure n/t

[obxhead]

88. Then he signed NAFTA that led to the largest exportation of those

jobs ever!

[JDPriestly]

95. Clinton signed the repeal of Glass-Steagall. That was the beginning

of the end for the health of our economy.

[Go2Peace]

120. That is *only* because of IT, which was still new and not easily exported

Bullshit. While I appreciated many of the things Clinton did, he made HUGE and serious mistakes. It was the IT industry that saved his (and our) ass. The industry was new and the US was so ahead of the world that it gave us a huge bump.

I can't help but imagine what our country would be like if Clinton had *not* pursued the agreements he did.

I am not trying to be *down* on Clinton (or Obama for that matter). But it is time we cut the crap. We need to recognize the serious mistakes that even our party is making.

[phleshdef]

158. Right wing bullshit. 22 million jobs were not 22 million IT jobs.

You are wrong, wrong, wrong. Right wingers love to fantasize that the IT boom gets all the credit so they can take it away from Clinton. Its a fucking myth no matter how bad you want it to be true. Clinton gets credit for all of it whether you like it or not.

[frylock]

130. the tech boom didn't hurt..

clinton was the right guy at the right time, but he didn't invent the interwebs.

[OnyxCollie]

131. He also signed the Telecommunications Act of 1996.

That put me out of a job.

Four years in college and five years in commercial radio down the tubes.

Now look at the RW radio behemoth that's been created. Fucking stupid idea.

But since you were unaffected, everything's great.

[Enthusiast]

146. Clinton?

The one that signed NAFTA and the Gramm-Lech-Bliley Act? That Bill Clinton, the one that betrayed the American working people?

While I agree with Mr. Clinton that Obama deserves none of the blame for this Bush economy we would be far better off if Obama was not following in Clinton's foot prints by promoting more free trade deals.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

34. I'll Take 3.9% Unemployment, 4.0% GDP Growth,

And the highest rate of African employment in history again.

[Beacool]

"And the highest rate of African employment in history again."

True, and yet he was portrayed as a racist in 2008.

Most AA people threw the Clintons under the bus for Obama. And what did they get for their troubles? For almost a year now AA unemployment has reached Great Depression levels.

:(

[CakeGrrl]

42. And that has absolutely NOTHING to do with GWB's eight years in between, does it?

Now you're laying off eight years of Republican damage on Obama to elevate Clinton to saintly levels.

Who'da thunk it?

:rofl:

[Beacool]

51. No, I'm not.

I'm just pointing out that most AA people voted for Obama over Hillary and that they have received little in exchange. When does Obama bother with the AA community? Mainly when he's out trolling for votes. Otherwise, he mostly ignores their needs and assumes that they will always vote for him. He also addresses them differently that when he talks to whites. He uses words like "bamboozle", something he would never use in front of a white audience. I find that condescending, just as condescending as candidates who speak three words of Spanish, but use them when they need the Hispanic vote. Do these politicians think that people of one race or ethnicity all think alike?

:-(

[Name removed]

110. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Beacool]

128. You can believe whatever you like.

But like they say: Denial ain't just a river in Egypt.

You may want to read this:

"If (former President) Bill Clinton had been in the White House and had failed to address this problem, we probably would be marching on the White House. There is a less-volatile reaction in the CBC because nobody wants to do anything that would empower the people who hate the president." Rep. Emanuel Cleaver of Missouri, chairman of the Congressional Black Caucus.

http://www.miamiherald.com/2011/09/18/v-fullstory/2413197/black-caucus-head-treads-line.html

:shrug:

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

167. Not only are you totally WRONG, you are offending an entire group of people

with this rhetoric, which serves as flamebait.

Time to alert the moderators!

[Go2Peace]

126. What made the late 90's left the country and would have happened regardless

Of course Bush was awful and accellerated it and the uneven distribution of income dramatically. But we need to get our heads in reality. The 90's, while "enhanced" by good leadership, were a result of our new "automobile" industry. IT. That would have happened regardless who the President was.

Ultimately, it is our mistaken globalist policies that did us in, and Clinton bought into them and still is not recognizing the underlying mechanics. It am not into bashing Clinton. I liked him and still do, but that does not mean I want to welcome a similar administration again. We MUST change the basic premises that have us in this mess.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

45. Please Don't Throw Me In This Briar Patch

I am afraid future generations will look back at the nineties as a golden age. Were they perfect? No. But we had relative peace and prosperity.

IMHO, any sentient American, without an ideological axe to grind would go back to them.

[Beacool]

49. I'm not, but it hurt them.

I don't mean just politically, but as people. Bill in particular was deeply hurt by their rejection. He's mostly gotten over it, but it pained him for a long time. Even that jerk Dick Morris said at the time that Bill doesn't see color, that he was the least racial politician he ever worked for.

Bill was partially raised at a very young age by his mother's grandparents while his mom went away to study nursing. His grandparents owned a general store in Hope, AR. Times were tough for all folks, white and black alike, and his grandparents didn't discriminate. Pretty progressive for people living in the 50s in a small town in Arkansas. It was a good lesson for Bill who grew up having friends of both races alike.

;-)

[DemocratSinceBirth]

50. I Always Wanted To Vote For The First African American President

I did in the general election.

Everything else regarding that campaign saddens me. I try not to relive it.

Oh, and there's always 2016.

[Beacool]

52. I'll go to my grave thinking that Hillary should have come first and then Obama.

Despite the lousy economy, I think that we could have had 16 years of Democratic rule and two historic presidencies. As it is, even if Obama manages to win in 2012, I doubt that a Democrat could win in 2016.

Hillary is tough and knew her way around the WH and Congress, having lived in one for 8 years and served in the other for another 8 years. Besides, just as she was Bill's closest adviser, he would have been hers. Good intentions are not enough, knowing how to maneuver around the sharks in Congress is as essential for any president as is their political stance on the issues. Carter had great ideas, but was ineffective when it mattered.

:)

[Major Hogwash]

56. Did someone make all the Pumas take a pledge like the tea partists?

Instead of not raising taxes, they can't get over Hillary dropping out of her own accord in 2008.

When was that, I forget, oh yeah, over 3 whole years ago.

[Beacool]

61. Please stop with that PUMA crap.

It's offensive and dismissive. Aside from not being factual.

;(

[Major Hogwash]

63. Oh, it's factual, that's one thing it sure as hell is.

I don't care if you think it's offensive or not.
Many of the Pumas have picked up and dropped anchor on other forums because of it.

[polmaven]

108. And the Primary supporters

of Hillary who have NOT " picked up and dropped anchor on other forums because of it" find it extremely offensive.

I often wonder who are really the PUMAs...Those if us who accepted Hillary's defeat in the primary and moved on to support and work for President Obama, or those who are unable to put the primary away, and continue to call her supporters names? Name calling is a very childish activity.

[Number23]

111. Polmaven, I don't think there is a person on this board that thinks you are a PUMA

Some other folks in this thread, that's an entirely different story.

You're just a proud Hillary Clinton supporter. Like me.

[Major Hogwash]

136. Man, your avatar says so much that you don't even need to.

Incredible.

[polmaven]

161. Well, sure,

because a person cannot possibly show pride in having previously supported one member of this administration without proclaiming "Party Unity My Ass" and opposing the president! Isn't, then, the president himself a "PUMA" for having appointed his former opponent as SoS in the first place?

I think that attitude shows a lot more about who it is that cares less about "party unity".

[DemocratSinceBirth]

58. A Few Thoughts

It is what it is or it was what it was.

I strongly believe that the economy would be in the doldrums regardless of who was elected president in 2012. As Bill Clinton said, economic downturns caused by financial crises take a long time to unwind. If either McCain or Hillary would have won, the economy would still be awful and they would be in the same situation as President Obama. At least with a Democrat president in the White House we made a lot of social progress. We got the repeal of DADT and two left of center justices. We would not have made that progress with McCain. I shudder how much damage a Republican will do in that arena should he or she become president in 2016.

And by not presiding over this economic mess the Clinton brand of peace and prosperity remains untarnished.

[Beacool]

78. I hear you.

My point is that Hillary had lived and survived through all the crap that was thrown at them in the 90s. I thought in 2008, and still think so now, that she was more experienced than Obama in the ways of Washington and would have been able to handle much better the opposition and the Congress critters.

Alas, it was not meant to be.

:-(

[eilen]

102. I think she would have been a better negotiator.

and not tried to be Pres. Pollyanna.

[anAustralianobserver]

122. It would have been great to see what the Clintons did in the White House again, but they

utterly blew their gut-level *trust* by supporting and giving cover to the neocon foreign policy experiment (and the drug war). The way Hillary performed in the campaign was disingenuous and out of tune with the time, and unfortunately both Clintons were tripping all over themselves; confirming people's doubts about their integrity at the time (including, in most people's opinion, Hillary's in-effect pandering to xenophobes at a couple of points (though I agree with you they aren't racist), and their over-complimenting McCain.

It was and is Obama's time, and so far he's been disappointing and less effective in some ways than Hillary would have been.

However the Clintons posture, my guess is Secretary Clinton still has her eye on the White House and if she becomes president I think she'll be better than she would have been then.

[Enthusiast]

148. I agree with you.............now.

I didn't at the time. Too bad I didn't listen to my mother, lol. Seriously.

[Beacool]

162. You know what they say.........

Mothers know best.

:D

[davidwparker]

84. In retrospect, it should have been Clinton-Obama and

then that would have given Obama more time to bake. The difference between the two was Hillary would have brought Bill. Outside of that, it was do you want the first woman president or the first black president.

I went O because I believed the hype.

[Beacool]

90. Hype seldom translates into knowhow.

That's why it's hype. An experienced individual doesn't need hype, his or her record stands for itself.

;)

[Enthusiast]

147. You're right. We would all go back there.

Imagine all that Whitewater-Lewinsky insanity over Clinton in a time of such peace and prosperity. Clinton still enjoyed a 64% approval rating. That should tell us something.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

175. I Realize There Is No Such Thing As A Perfect Era

I am sure there were folks hurting in the nineties. But I know anecdotally and statistically there were a lot less of them then.

[davidwparker]

82. ... because O was a minority. Had the challenger to Hillary

been caucasian, they would not have.

IOW, it was throw the "first black president" under the bus in order to get a real black president in the WH.

[Name removed]

64. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[JDPriestly]

94. And, in a fit of overoptimism, shut down welfare, a system that many

American families could use right now.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

179. We Had 3.9% Unemployment Then

It's a right wing shibboleth that folks would rather have welfare than a good job.

[FedUp_Queer]

115. Not to mention

signing the bill that deregulated the banks laying the foundation for the financial crisis and "too big to fail."

[yourout]

4. Obama's biggest problem is a good chuck of his base does not trust him anymore.

Rightly or wrongly all the talk of cuts to social programs and ridicule of the "professional left" has left a great deal of people that helped him get elected with a feeling of betrayal and mistrust.

[otohara]

9. What About The GOP?

Forget the election...

[bigdarryl]

11. there's no such thing as a BASE in Presidential elections it's a MYTH

[Mr Deltoid]

27. Yes there is

Democrats are the base of the Democratic candidate. Republicans are the base of the Republican candidate.

But you already know that.

[treestar]

17. Some people are too easy to betray then

There's no one electable who could keep that trust.

[tblue]

30. Some people will accept just about anything

and use every excuse in the book to justify it.

[FrenchieCat]

44. And some people will attack anything this President has done

or is trying to do, and use every hyperbole in the book to rationalize what apparently
is extreme hate.

[woo me with science]

57. Yeah, yeah, we know.

It's all personal. :eyes:

[FrenchieCat]

70. Obviously, you have no clue......

How you are contributing to a cumulative effect that will be dire to all of us.

It's like voting. Each vote can make a difference, and each negative utterance
when not ever balanced with positivity at any point in time is an additional cut....
that will contribute to the death of this country in a long run. You can roll your eyes,
but it won't make what I am saying not true. Folks on the left are being used as tools by the right....
and they know it, and don't give a shit.

[woo me with science]

76. And maybe

if you stopped the knee-jerk nastiness toward anyone with an opinion you don't like and tried to listen to the policy disagreements instead of making it personal, you would see that others have just the opposite conviction, driven by just as much love of this country as yours.

It is the constant enabling/public validation of right-wing, corporate policies by Democrats that is, right now, leading to dire consequences. And until people wake up and realize that both parties are doing this, and make it clear that we won't tolerate it anymore, we will continue to move in this direction.

[Enthusiast]

149. Oh, baby!

"It is the constant enabling/public validation of right-wing, corporate policies by Democrats that is, right now, leading to dire consequences."

Yes!

[JDPriestly]

103. Traditional Democrats are now considered to be "left" by Blue Dogs

like Obama. That is the problem.

When I read FDR, I think how I wish that we had a president who believed what he believed and acted as he acted.

True, Obama has a majority of Republicans in the House which has made it difficult for him to get progressive legislation, actually any legislation passed. But, that is no excuse especially since he had two years with a Democratic Congress (If you consider Joe Lieberman and Max Bauchus and their ilk to be Democrats). Besides other presidents have had to contend with a contrary Congress and have at least brought a message of hope and direction to the country. Obama does not seem to get that across although he seems to try. He just hasn't brought an effective message.

I think that the problem with Obama is that he has hired Geithner and picked Bernanke for two of his top advisers. They are not really Democrats.

Geithner was picked for the Fed job by a committee headed by Pete Peterson. That's an indication that Geithner is ultra-conservative and not suited to work in a Democratic administration right there. How could any real Democrat like him?

Bernanke is focused on saving the banks, not on creating jobs. Bankers know this, and we know this. But as I understand it, the law that governs the Federal Reserve requires him to focus on the interests of all Americans, not just the bankers.

Obama is a nice guy, but he does not understand economics. We needed someone who could understand economics. I don't think that is Hillary's strong point either, and had she been president, the Republicans would have been even less cooperative than they are with Obama.

Frenchiecat, you misunderstand the "left." I am probably one of the "lefties" that you don't like, but what we don't like about Obama is that he gives the impression that he is confused and disconnected from our reality and going nowhere. In addition to lacking intensity in his expression (which is needed in order to be heard by ordinary Americans), he simply does not have his priorities straight.

Obama did inherit an economic mess. That may be an excuse, but right now, America's survival depends on our president having more to offer than excuses.

The economy is worsening. Very soon Obama is going to have to make a choice: create jobs and help the ordinary American people or save Morgan Stanley and Goldman Sachs. What do you think his decision will be?

I think he will side with the banks, and if he does, Americans will reject him. If he finally puts the mega-banks and the foreign investors (the Main Street banks are not the problem), he will be re-elected. If he doesn't, his presidency will be viewed as a failure.

[Enthusiast]

150. What a wonderful post!

"Geithner was picked for the Fed job by a committee headed by Pete Peterson."

That about says it all right there.

[opihimoimoi]

5. KnR 14 :o) a realistic comment from the man who gave us 22 mil jobs

[obxhead]

8. And then signed a bill outsourcing most of them.

;)

[opihimoimoi]

10. stop pisasing on the man..;he did good...far more than Bush the FRAUD

Clinton was the best ...

Obama gonna do better....

[Schema Thing]

7. Bill Clinton has been a strong, clear voice of support

for Obama since Day 1.


He's very happy with the job Obama has been doing, and understands the very real limitations Obama is under.


Bill Clinton knows the difference between campaign politics, and get-shit-done politics.

Oh that Obama's "base" knew as much.

[DCBob]

13. it more than just support.. its the truth.

something few politicians speak lately.

[TuxedoKat]

25. Yes

and God Bless him for saying too. Pres. Clinton is so much smarter than David Gregory; sounds like he really put him in his place.

[Itchinjim]

14. knr

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

15. If anyone can help heal the wounds from the 2008 Primaries, it is Bill Clinton

It's time for Democrats to unite to beat these evil, recalcitrant ReTHUGS!!

Let's do this!

K&R!!!

[The Backlash Cometh]

16. Didn't Clinton give support to Bush too?

I'm wondering, if he knew Bush was bad news back then, why didn't he say something when he had the chance?

[Honeycombe8]

20. I think Clinton gives his honest appraisal, when asked, of particular situations and issues.

He refuses to knock down other Presidents (it's just not done by any of them...except Carter). But he seems to give honest assessments of things, when asked, even if that means stressing something that a particular President has or hasn't done that he disagrees with. But he's so great with language, it's never offensive.

He is friends with the Bushes. He didn't give an opinion re Bush Jr. on some issues, because it was in the middle of things, and Jr. was his successor...he said once that he didn't want to interfere.

But people regard his opinion so highly because he seems to give truthful, pointed answers to political and economical questions (not so with his personal life, as we know). So if he had O's back, that's because he truly sees the Jobs Plan as a path forward.

[The Backlash Cometh]

23. I ever wonder if he goes to bed at night wishing he hadn't underestimated

the determination of the right to get him, and if someone had warned him to keep his hands to himself back then, would he have heeded that advice?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

66. He Was Merciless On Bush* In The 00 Election

I remember Bill Clinton mocking him by saying his whole campaign rested on the foundation that "his daddy was president."

[davidwparker]

85. Missed that. I did not follow politics until after it was

stolen. Then, I woke up politically.

[CBHagman]

18. I'm going to have to find that clip...

...or perhaps the transcript, though the clip will of course convey better how something was said.

As for people speculating about what a Hillary Clinton presidency might have been like, I'm sure both Clintons would be among the first to tell you that the media in general and the right wing in particular would have had the long knives out for her, no question about it. All you need is a (D) after your name for the 'cans to basically dig in their heels and say things ought not to be this way. With Obama they can't hide their racism, and if Hillary was in the Oval Office, they wouldn't hesitate to deploy any sexist methods.

In any event, it sounds as though President Clinton gave a savvy, poised response.

[mtnsnake]

24. Here, I just found a video clip of it for you.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/44568007#44568007

The Carville question by Gregory is in the beginning of it. The "Hillary's popularity" reference by Gregory...and Bill's response to it...is towards the end.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

67. Yes. He Was Magnanimous And Self Deprecating

Unlike some in this thread

[treestar]

19. Rec and thank you President Clinton!

He did a great job.

[Honeycombe8]

21. I did not see Gregory's questions as "baiting" Clinton to criticize Obama.

He merely asked pointed questions on the topics of the week. We KNEW he'd ask about the poll regarding Hillary, of course. He wouldn't have been doing his job not to get Prez Clinton's take on that.

[Harmony Blue]

22. I trust Bill Clinton's judgement

some people want to judge human beings on one event.

Kick and rec'



:dem:

[mikekohr]

26. Huge kick and Rec

[tblue]

29. Bill Clinton is a healer.

I know he's far from perfect. But I think he has a heart of gold and is beyond brilliant. He is also a healer like no one else these days. And that is what is sorely missing. He can soothe and calm people like nobody else. He makes you feel like you're in good hands. If he ran again he'd win.

And he is a solid Dem Party guy. Remember, Obama is the one who defeated his wife, and yet Clinton is there for him.

I bet he won a lot of people over with this reasoned and unqualified support.

[CakeGrrl]

47. Did he win you over now that HE'S said the same thing people have BEEN saying?

Interesting that as long as it's the 'right' person saying pretty words, then they become worth listening to.

:eyes:

[tblue]

137. Why do you say that?

[eilen]

105. The DLCer sends some love to the "New Democrat"

Stop the presses. In other news, Republicans are assholes.

[scentopine]

31. Why the shock? Both support de-regulated Wall Street and outsourcing to India, China, Mexico -nt

[Skittles]

140. YUP

which is the MAIN reason for the loss of jobs in America

[Whisp]

32. wow. Good for Bill.

I'm certainly not a fan of his but appreciate what he said here.

[AtomicKitten]

183. Credit given with a wary eye on Carville and Penn tag-teaming the president.

Suskin said the Clintonites in the Obama Administration were anxious to dish dirt, but Jonathan Alter had a very different impression of the Obama-Clinton paradigm here: http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/political-animal/2011_09/compare_clinton_and_obama032321.php

excerpt:

Various tidbits from Ron Suskind’s new book are causing a stir in political circles, but Ben Smith flags an interesting MSNBC exchange featuring Jonathan Alter, who also wrote a book covering President Obama’s first year, commenting on the “home alone” quote.

ANCHOR: What about the claim he makes about Peter Orzag and Larry Summers saying they were “home alone” in the White House. As if the president was disengaged.

ALTER: I heard that “home alone” when I was reporting and talking to many of the same and they said they couldn’t get anybody from the Treasury Department and the key policy makers confirmed. It was three or four people trying to prevent a depression and felt like they were home alone in the book. The context of it is Obama was not up to the job and they longed for Bill Clinton. I have a whole chapter in my book where I talked to all the former Clinton people now work for Obama. I asked them all, compare Clinton and Obama.

ANCHOR: They said?

ALTER: They gave a sophisticated answer. They thought Clinton was more creative and his policy making, but they prefer to a person Obama in a crisis, which was what they were in. He was decisive and making as many decisions in a week as Bill Clinton made in a year, and making the decisions crisply. The idea that somehow all the former Clinton officials working for Obama were longing for Bill Clinton because they had this inexperienced president who didn’t know what he was doing is not what they were saying at the time. I was talking to not just a few, but pretty much all of the former Clinton people in the White House at high and mid-levels.

[nolabear]

35. Good on him! It's the easiest thing in the world to criticize when you haven't been in those shoes.

NO I am not giving Obama a free pass. I haven't gotten what I wanted and I'm impatient and afraid. But I'm not beginning to pretend I know what is really going on behind the scenes and what the repercussions would be of the decisions being made. Bill Clinton does.

Since I'm never going to take on the job, and since Obama HAS, I figure I can either work with him to do some good or hamstring him and let those circling buzzards take us all. I'm with Bill. And Barack.

[Cowpunk]

36. No one could have guessed the recession was so deep. Bull. Shit.

They were warned the stimulus package was too small and poorly targeted.

They were warned that the mountain of bad mortgages would drag down the economy for years if they didn't take more aggressive action.

They were warned that the pivot from job creation to deficit reduction was a loser both as policy and as politics.

[jefferson_dem]

37. Video here-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJF-BCX-TX8

[Beacool]

39. This morning I watched his three interviews.

If it were legally possible, people would rush to vote for Bill Clinton for a third term. He is the best politician today, bar none. He is a policy wonk, but has the innate ability to explain the most complicated issues in terms that anyone can understand. He may be a flawed man, but I wish that he was still in the WH.

:)

[CakeGrrl]

41. "...but I wish that he was still in the WH"

In other news, water is wet.

:hi:

[Whisp]

74. hee hee n/t

[Bluenorthwest]

92. More of those pretty words of yours that are just like Clinton's

only no one listens to you, as posted upthread? Hilarious.

[Pirate Smile]

119. If you could just compliment Bill and Hillary without slamming Pres. Obama at the same time, it

would make your arguments stronger, instead of being dismissed by many.

The best thing you could do for Bill & Hill is promote and support them without pushing so much of the negative baggage from the '08 primaries.

[Beacool]

129. The ones who are dismissive are the ones who have blinders on when it comes to Obama.

The truth of the matter is that he had been in DC only a short time before running for president and it shows. Granted that he inherited a lousy economy and that the Republicans will oppose anything he proposes, but some of his troubles are of his own making.

:shrug:

[Pirate Smile]

132. Just tried to offer some friendly advice.

I'm not surprised that you aren't interested. Just decided to give it a shot. :)

[lumpy]

43. All of us should be as understanding of the mess that Obama

took on and the continual opposition he has gotten from the Repubs. Clinton shows his loyalty, not only to his party and president but to the country as well.

[ProSense]

46. So

Bill Clinton smacked down Carville?

Good!

James Carville’s Flawed Advice for Obama

At this time, Democrats who care about the issues aren't trying to undercut the President with hypothetical BS while he's trying to fend off Republican attacks and pass a jobs bill.

[eilen]

107. Carville had a point about firing people

Geitner could go without bringing tears to my eyes.

[Major Hogwash]

53. Not only that, but Gregory among many other "journalists" try to make Bachmann sound credible

When anyone listening to her screeds knows that she bat shit crazy.

I've had it with the mainstream media acting like the Republicans have any credible candidtates among them, they don't.

[skyounkin]

54. Yeah...and alot of us on the left

are waiting on support from President Obama.

You know, the one that millions of people busted their ass to get elected and then got the middle finger in the face, stabbed in the back, and thrown under the bus.

And this economy will take a hell of a lot longer to fix in 5 years if Preseident Obama keeps giving the rethugs what they want.

[Vinca]

60. I've been wondering if Bill Clinton feels any remorse about the whole jobs mess.

After all, that's when the great job migration began, after he started signing off on trade agreements and deregulating banks.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

65. Last I Checked He Left Office With A 4.1% Unemployment Rate

Strange that a Democrat would be bashing a Democrat (Clinton) for the jobs a Replicant (Bush*) lost.

[Mr Deltoid]

83. 4% is considered full employment

Roughly 4% of the population are considered unemployable. Street alcoholics, druggies, disabled...etc.

[totodeinhere]

68. This is coming from the same guy who signed off on NAFTA, DOMA, DADT, and so-called

welfare reform. I don't care what he says. He has done enough damage already.

[TNLib]

69. Glad to see some unity among democrats, even it they are both moderates.

I really don't want to see this country move further to right with a republican win in 2012 if that happens this country is SCREWED!!!

[McCamy Taylor]

71. Clinton is more than a match for any reporter.

[girl gone mad]

72. "even MORE drastic than anyone ever realized."

Complete bullshit.

Read posts in the economy forum from that time. Many knew and they were either ignored or called names by proponents of Obama's ineffectual policies.

[jenmito]

75. Yup. He defended Obama GREATLY on MTP and also on This Week. n/t

[BenzoDia]

77. Fantastic answers from Mr. Clinton. Let's cut out this Clinton vs Obama crap and work together to

fix our broken system. We all want the same things.

[ooglymoogly]

79. Cus they are both third wayer's

Clinton is just a lot smarter.

[Deep13]

87. Good explanations. nt

[Firebrand Gary]

89. I love Bubba.

[sulphurdunn]

104. NAFTA SMAFTA

All the talk about how NAFTA created jobs or took jobs misses the point. What NAFTA and every other so called "free trade agreement" have done is to force American labor to sharply increase productivity without commensurate wage compensation due to cheap labor produced imports and almost all gains in wealth going to the financial class. The result has been a massive balance of payments deficit and huge debt accrued to American workers to compensate for stagnant wages. Clinton was the first DLC President. Obama is the second. Wall Street loves both their asses for the same reason but loves Republican ass more... out of habit, I suppose.

[obxhead]

112. Well said.

[Mosaic]

113. The Democratic party

Seems to exist only to service the needs of the oligarchy, the 'upper class', repugs, and business elite. What a system we have, like DePeche Mode song, Master and Servant. We can do better.

[polichick]

125. I'm always amazed that Wall Street doesn't "lurve" the prez...

They'll never have enough to make them happy.


(Lurve - From the movie Annie Hall: A heightened term to suggest more-than-love. Urban Dictionary)

[KoKo]

106. Delete..wrong place...

[kayakjohnny]

114. Very articulate post. Thanks for taking the time to do it.

Highly recommended.

:hi:

[rury]

116. Thank you Bill!!

:dem: :kick: :fistbump: :yourock:

[YellowCosmicSun]

117. Bill is a good man for doing whatever it takes to get hard-core Clinton supporters on Obama's side

Bill knows our only option is to go forward in time, not backwards.

[tropicanarose]

127. Yay Bill! I wish that the Rethugs were as logical as Bill Clinton & stop blaming Obama for the mess

I think that people forget the frightening circumstances that we were facing when Obama too office.
Yes, I am frustrated. Yes, I am disappointed. I wish that we were making more progress too.
We have to fight harder and we can't ever, ever give up

[readmoreoften]

133. Why wouldn't he be supportive? He's also a neoliberal Democrat.

Just maybe slightly better. Maybe. Or maybe just more charismatic.

[zentrum]

134. Obama and his advisors

...seem to be the only ones who "were surprised" at how bad the economy "really" was. You either had to not be paying attention or very rich to not see, feel, hear and know the economic reality in 2007.

We were dying for Obama to assume office in 2008 and we were sure he would immediatley tackle jobs as his number one job and number one narrative. And we waited and waited and waited....

[tblue]

138. Yup. A day late and a dollar short.

I think he came in with no plan at all. Sure looks to me like he's winging it.

[FrenchieCat]

139. Hahahaha!

Here's some reading for you on this that you think....
http://outfrontpolitics.blogspot.com/2011/09/are-you-people-obama-hoped-for.html

[Skittles]

141. CORRECT

only a fucking IDIOT would have been surprised - yet this guy is surprised to find out that repukes care more about power than they care about America - I mean, WHEN THE FUCK IS OBAMA GOING TO GET A CLUE???

[CakeGrrl]

145. Nice way to sneak in the associative bash on POTUS.

Any which way you can.

:eyes:

[Enthusiast]

151. Many of us grow weary of

President Obama's never ending ass kissing of Republicans. It's not a bash, it's a fact.

[FrenchieCat]

135. I posted a link to this thread on one of the largest membership FB page

that I belong to. Looks like the members came to read it! Good!

[pam4water]

143. Clinton was as much of a fuck up as Obama. Clinton deregulated the banks. That started this mess. So

So who cares what he says. I'm so sick of this Pete Pan BS. If you believe in Obama enough we can fix the economy. It's policies not cheering that change things. And Obama has change the policies that made this mess and nothing will get fix until someone does. He job bill is and an half measure that will have no effect.

[Enthusiast]

152. I like this.

"If you believe in Obama enough we can fix the economy."

[pam4water]

155. Bawahahaha perfect! n/t

[Name removed]

160. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[AverageJoe90]

153. Actually, that was Reagan's fault.

Sounds like you need to brush up on your history a little. :P ;-)

[pam4water]

154. No it's not. Gramm–Leach–Bliley Act 1999. Clinton signed it and has gone on Broad Cast TV and

c-span defending he signing of the bill as late as 2009. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gramm%E2%80%93Leach%E2%80%93Bliley_Act

[ProSense]

159. Hmmm?

"Clinton deregulated the banks."

And President Obama re-regulated them.

Before calling people names, get the facts straight.

[pam4water]

171. Obama's regulation wont stand up to a wet noddle and Obama put

Lawrence Summers as Director of the United States National Economic Council. Lawrence Summers who pushing Clinton to deregulate the banks. It's all SSDD - same shit different day.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

181. See Post One Hundred Seventy Four

.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

169. This entire thread went from something very positive that would bring both supporters of

Hillary and Obama together. But look at what it's devolved into: a ridiculous flamebaiting war and a rehash of the 2008 primaries. Not to mention, the utter disrespect for black Americans--the most loyal of Democrats.

I am ashamed of my fellow Democrats on this forum. And most of you ought to be ashamed of yourselves.

As Bill Clinton rightly pointed out: Anyone who is NOT president will be more popular than the president.

Again, most of you should be ashamed of yourselves! And the subtle racism has not gone unnoticed!!

[Beacool]

170. I read the message you sent me.

You are entitled to complain to the moderators, but I have not written anything here that I would consider disrespectful.

I believe in freedom of speech and I have never alerted on anyone or unrec'd a post. If I had written anything that was deemed offensive it would have already been deleted by the moderators, as have been some of the messages posted here.

Peace......

:-)

[DemocratSinceBirth]

176. I Agree

Some folks used this thread to trash Clinton. I vigorously defended Clinton. By almost any indice the Clinton era represented a golden era in America. However I didn't denigrate President Obama to make my point.

[JVS]

172. Not surprising that he opposes firing advisers