Should Obama have intervened in the Troy Davis case?

[yurbud]

Having ordered the killing of Osama bin Laden, no one can say he is soft on the death penalty, and as a constitutional law professor, it seems like he should understand the importance of making sure the people we execute are actually guilty, and not just that they an unblemished court proceeding, regardless of any new or recanted evidence.

This also reminded me of the more questionable uses of the pardon or commutation that typically occur at the end of a presidency.

Passing up this one would make any later ones for the wealthy look even more distasteful.

Should Obama have intervened in this case?

[Ken Burch]

1. Even if he couldn't have stopped the execution

He could have at least declared that he stood for what is right. If you can't do that, you have no soul.

[Fruittree]

17. But what was right?

The case was tried and reviewed several times. The president can't get into the business of reviewing individual cases ,declaring a juries' decision wrong then replacing it with his own. Think of the precedent that would set and how it could be misused in the future. This is just sad overall for everyone involved - Troy Davis' family and the police officer's family. Too much anger in the world...

[MADem]

2. He's not the King. This was a state issue and the state will have to bear

responsibility for their conduct.

[yurbud]

3. Damn, there goes the Civil Rights Act of 1964, and the Emancipation Proclamation for that matter

I guess Obama is just president of the District of Columbia.

[MADem]

6. Neither of which was accomplished in a five hour period.

Like I said--he's not the King.

Fail.


This shit belongs to a small cadre of people in Georgia. Stop trying to make it a national issue.

[geek tragedy]

42. Neither of which gives him the right to interfere with

state criminal cases.

[Webster Green]

11. He has no problem sending goons to CA to steal pot from patients.

State's rights, my ass. That's an excuse for being too cowardly to stand for anything.

This country is rapidly becoming a third world shit-hole.

I don't give a fuck about Obama or the US anymore. I want to get the hell out of here.

Actually, I wish Northern California could secede from the union. Then I would want to stay.

[MADem]

12. You're talking apples and oranges.

There are federal laws at play that give him an opening in that regard, not that I think that was a well-advised move.

The blame for that execution in Georgia lies IN Georgia, and no where else.

Don't let the door hit you, now. Taking your ball and going....well, somewhere else...isn't terribly helpful. If you have a half a million dollars and are willing to start up a business, Canada might have you...if you aren't too old, that is.

[Webster Green]

13. Not enough points for Canada.

Probably too old as well. I'll no doubt be here bitching and talking shit for the rest of my days.

[MADem]

15. Fight the good fight--keeps you young at heart. NT

[yurbud]

31. So if the attorney general gets a state level conviction of Lloyd Blankfein or some other Goldman

Sachs exec, there's no way the president could pardon them?

[EffieBlack]

34. If a state attorney general gets a conviction, the President cannot pardon them

[MADem]

44. Not if the case does not touch the Federal government in any way.

As this case did not.

The only route to the Feds from a state case is through the Judicial branch.

They tried that.

The Supremes said no.

[Tx4obama]

4. No. Obama had no jurisdiction.

It was not a Federal case therefore there was nothing President Obama could do.

[NaturalHigh]

5. Hard to believe how many people can't (or won't) grasp that concept.

[MADem]

7. If there's blame to be assigned, he's a handy scapegoat for some.

It does demonstrate a brutal lack of understanding of our system of government, though. Telling.

[emilyg]

8. No.

[Tx4obama]

9. There are THREE branches of government.

The Executive
The Legislative
and
The Judiciary

The final appeal went to the U.S. Supreme Court - where it was supposed to have gone.

The Executive branch (which is where President Obama is) does not have jurisdiction over STATE judiciary matters.

==============

Now please tell us what you think President Obama could have done to 'intervene'.

[tblue]

10. The only thing that may have been in Pres Obama's power

would be to have the Justice Dept investigate civil rights violations and other misconduct of the police who coerced witnesses to finger Troy Davis.

We really don't know if Obama picked up a phone and talked to some official involved in this case. Maybe he did.

It wasn't in his Constitutional power to intervene. We don't know if he would have if he could. We won't ever know.

I'd like to believe if I was president I would have done everything I possibly could. If not, I would never forgive myself.

[Prism]

14. How would he have intervened?

It was a state level crime. It has little to do with the President.

[MrSlayer]

16. Other: It would have been stupid politically for him to weigh in one way or the other,

First, there is no way he could have done anything about it. Second, there is no correct position to take. If he goes one way he's taking up for a cop killer. If he goes the other way he's supporting the execution of person who is possibly innocent. Better to deflect the question.

[yurbud]

29. that's the best response

[Azathoth]

18. How? n/t

[Name removed]

19. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[jefferson_dem]

20. Of course not.

Ridiculous poll.

[Tarheel_Dem]

21. Probably not the result you were looking for, huh?

:rofl:

[Name removed]

22. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[EffieBlack]

23. What do you do personally to fight the death penalty?

That's a serious question - I'd like to know.

[Ken Burch]

24. I haven't done enough yet...and want to get more involved.

I've spoken out against it and argued against it in conversations with people I know throughout my life.

But I could do more. And this thread isn't about pretending that I'm personally a moral beacon or anything.

[Tarheel_Dem]

26. Your outlandish equivalency is duly noted. The problem with DU's keyboard commandoes...

is that they really wanted an "activist" in the White House. Activism on every single issue is impossible, and so were your expectations, I suspect. I, personally, didn't vote for Nader, who is a self appointed "activist". I voted for someone I thought could govern evenhandedly, and without the drama of a Nader or a Kucinich.

If this president had stuck his nose into Georgia's business, wouldn't he then have to stick his nose into the execution that took place in Texas also? Otherwise, he could be accused of "racism", and probably on this very forum. Davis' case went before the highest court in the land. Where does one go from there? :shrug:

Your blind hatred of all things Obama has warped any sense of reason you may have had. ODS is a real affliction. I suspect, had he intervened, the same Obama bashers would have leveled charges of overreach by the federal government. He was pilloried on this very forum for speaking out in the Gates case.

The problem with opposing the president's every move is that you have to twist yourself in knots to make a big deal out of things that would have gone completely unnoticed in previous administrations.

Newsflash: Typing angry anti-Obama screeds on the internet is not "activism". Look into it. :hi:

[MADem]

28. +1 n/t

[BklnDem75]

32. +1000

My thoughts into words. Thank you.

[vaberella]

48. +Amen. n/t

[yurbud]

30. actually, it wasn't a push poll. I wondered what people thought and about the mechanics of it

even though I did have an opinion of my own as the OP makes clear.

[Tarheel_Dem]

33. Whatever you say.

:hi:




:eyes:

[Blue_Tires]

25. It would have been nice, but there was nothing he could have really done

and the issue would have become even more clouded and politicized...The Georgia penal system would have executed 20 black men last night just to prove a point...

[Phx_Dem]

27. It's a legal issue. The highest court in the land made the final decision.

IMO, the wrong decision, but they are the Supreme Court and their decision stands.

[bigwillq]

35. I voted No.

What could he have done? :shrug:

Feel free to add answers to my question since I answered yours.

[craigmatic]

36. He should've commuted his sentence to life. What else is a democrat for other than protecting the

innocent?

[Tx4obama]

38. No he could NOT have.

President Obama has NO jurisdiction in STATE death penalty cases.

If the prisoner was convicted of a 'federal crime' then Obama could have stepped in.

The policeman that was killed was NOT a federal officer and no other federal crime was committed during the shooting,
therefore there was NOTHING President Obama could have done.

[craigmatic]

39. Bull he's president and has the power to pardon and commute any sentences.

[Tx4obama]

40. No, he does not.

Go read the U.S. Constitution.
The president only has jurisdiction regarding federal crimes.

====

Edited to add:

Section 2: Presidential powers
Clause 1: Command of military; Opinions of cabinet secretaries; Pardons

“ The President shall be Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the Militia of the several States, when called into the actual Service of the United States; he may require the Opinion, in writing, of the principal Officer in each of the executive Departments, upon any Subject relating to the Duties of their respective Offices, and he shall have Power to grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offenses against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment.

---

So, in the case of Troy Davis it was not a 'federal crime', therefore The President did NOT have any jurisdiction.

[craigmatic]

49. There's always neccessary and proper and in this case I think it would've made an interesting

argument.

[geek tragedy]

43. You are ignorant on this point of law. nt

[craigmatic]

50. Maybe. I wouldn't deny that it's been at least a year since I picked up the constitution.

[johnaries]

37. Absolutely, right after he tore up the Constitution, dissolved

Congress and SCOTUS, and declared himself Emperor (AKA Unitary Executive). Then we can get the Public Option, repeal DOMA, etc., etc.

[vaberella]

47. + Infinity.

But screw Public Option...the real end game was Single Payer.

[geek tragedy]

41. Read a book. He didn't have the legal power to intervene.

I'm not sure if the ignorance or malice in the OP is more disturbing.

[TheKentuckian]

45. Other: How could he within the law?

A peppery speech, a refusal to execute on the Federal level, and commuting all the Federal death row is all he has the authority to do.

Maybe by force but you are talking pretty certain impeachment and plausible mutiny before or during the fact.

[Ter]

46. Pat Buchanan said if he were president in 2005...

He would have sent federal marshals to Florida to save Terri Schiavo. He (nor Bush) could have pardoned her, as she wasn't a criminal. But Obama could have pardoned Davis.

Edit: Some are saying that a President can't pardon in local cases. If that's true, take back that option.

[Mimosa]

51. Ridiculous OP poll

Such intervention would not be possible under the Constitution. *rolling eyes*

[RichGirl]

52. Yeah right....

And he should also have turned over Casey Anthony's not guilty verdict to guilty and sentenced her the life....sheesh!!!!

It's as if some people spend every spare minute of their day trying to find new ways of making Obama wrong.