So now you're upset that they killed a known terrorist? Really?

[Splinter Cell]

Some folks around here are actually going to piss on Obama because they killed a major terrorist? Have we gone that far?

[ellisonz]

1. Get ready for a barrage.

:hide:

[Kurovski]

15. Oh for fuck's sake.

That's the entire point of the OP's existence. :D

[ellisonz]

17. I support the President.

:hide:

[Bake]

74. I support the President, too, but I'm not for giving him unfettered power of life or death.

And no, I'm not losing sleep over al Alwaki. I'm losing sleep over the abandonment of constitutional process, i.e., "DUE PROCESS." Does that ring a bell?

Bake

[boppers]

82. There are fetters. Via congress.

Also, via internal deliberation.

Due process still exists, even if you don't particularly like the process.

[roguevalley]

47. we have laws against assassination. I have supported them all

my life. Piss on me all you want but the Constitution and our laws are pretty clear. Assassination is illegal. I have never supported it when it was used by any president in our history. Shoot me if you don't like it. Obama is no exception. It's illegal and immoral and wrong.

[boppers]

83. Destroying a military target is not assassination.

Targeting a non-military person, however, is.

In this case, a military CnC convoy of vehicles was targeted, and those vehicles were destroyed.

With people in them.

This is the the torturous thinking that divides assassination from war, and explains why, for example, we cannot use bullets designed to kill *people* in war.

[Demeter]

2. Rule of Law?

You know, due process, right to face accusers, innocent until proven guilty, habeas corpus (oh, right...W nullified that, and Obama maintained that policy)...is it Fascism yet?

[ZombieHorde]

43. We have been openly targeting civilians for death for hundreds of years.

Why do you think major police departments have snipers?

[Vattel]

80. Obviously we can kill those who pose an immediate threat

to the lives of innocent persons. But we have no reason to suppose that Awlaki fell into that category. Try addressing the real issue.

[Webster Green]

3. Very upset.

If they knew where he was, and had charges against him, they should have arrested him. It's upsetting that the president can assassinate whomever he wants to, simply by declaring the person to be a terrorist.

[ellisonz]

4. I'm sure Seal Team Six is grateful for his decision.

[Tx4obama]

16. Ibrahim Al-Asiri, Bomb-Maker Linked to 2009 Christmas Day Plot, Likely Killed in Yemen Drone Strike

Ibrahim Al-Asiri, Bomb-Maker Linked to 2009 Christmas Day Plot, Likely Killed in Yemen Drone Strike

WASHINGTON -- U.S. intelligence indicates that the top al-Qaida bomb-maker in Yemen also died in the drone strike that killed radical cleric Anwar al-Awlaki, two U.S. officials said Friday.

Ibrahim al-Asiri is the bomb-maker linked to the bomb hidden in the underwear of a Nigerian man accused of trying to blow up a plane over Detroit on Christmas Day 2009.

The FBI pulled al-Asiri's fingerprint off that bomb. Authorities also believe he built the bombs that al-Qaida slipped into printers and shipped to the U.S. last year in a nearly catastrophic attack.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/09/30/ibrahim-al-asiri-likely-killed_n_989961.html


Note: Be sure to read the whole article - looks like this fella Ibrahim al-Asiri (NON-American) was the most important of the three - and probably the MAIN target of the drone attack!!!

[Major Hogwash]

20. That makes this operation a 'twofer", which makes it doubly good.

I wonder what some of the naysayers had to say about President Clinton trying to use a missile back in the 1990s, back in 1998 or so, to kill Osama bin Laden thought about that operation back then.
I remember when Bush said he wasn't going to use missiles "to kill a camel in a tent" during the 2000 debates with Vice President Al Gore and thought he was a smarmy little asshole for saying that.

But, if they had of gotten a whole tentload of them, would those naysayers change their mind or would be be happier about it.

It's very obvious to me who respects President Obama's decision around here and who doesn't.

[Tx4obama]

22. Apparently it was a 'THREEfer'

Strike Three--Obama got the Planner, the Propagandist, and the PETN Lover--all in one strike.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=2039331&mesg_id=2039331

p.s. Looks like the drone got THREE of the terrorist, still waiting on the confirmation of the death of Ibrahim al-Asiri
(Though his death has not been confirmed Asiri is also thought to have been travelling with Awlaki when the drone struck.)

[truth2power]

29. Yes, they could have arrested him and brought himto trial. That tells me

again, as in the OBL operation, that they were assuring that some sort of information doesn't get out. This whole thing stinks to high heaven.

I've already made my decision about who Obama is and what he's about.

[msanthrope]

53. Really? You gonna go arrest Al-Qaeda's bomb maker in the hills of Yemen?

Not for anything, but Yemen had already tried to arrest him, and tried him in absentia for incitement to murder...he didn't show.

[hack89]

65. How would you arrest him?

How do you arrest someone in a foreign land who is surrounded by armed and violent men without turning it into a military operation?

How would you arrest someone in a foreign land with no effective government or police force?

[boppers]

84. "they should have arrested him"

They did.

He refused to honor the warrant he knew was issued.

[flamingdem]

5. Poor widdle al qweda big mean obama go and be mean doesn't ask permission bad nt

[roguevalley]

48. okay. if you mockingly support this assassination, you will have to

support the next one and the next. what if some president shoots americans here? are you going to be good with that? If you support this one, you can't bitch about the next one no matter who it is. Baby talk that.

[flamingdem]

52. I call Bullshit on whining over killing a legitimate military target

Talk poutrage on that.

[Mr Deltoid]

55. You talk like a 4 year old....

Then call 'bullshit on whining?'

:-)

[Name removed]

6. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ellisonz]

9. Dude...how'd that massive invasion work out?

[WCGreen]

11. These were terrorist attacks against Isreal not against the US....

[think4yourself]

19. Wrong.

Check your facts.

[Eric J in MN]

7. The precedent of the US government killing Americans

...who aren't on a battlefield, based on suspicion by the Executive Branch that they're either in Al Qaeda or an associated group, may not end well.

[Mr Deltoid]

8. I have never fallen for that 'Terrorists!!' fear crap

But I don't think it was beyond the pale to knock this idiot out of the ballpark. I have no sympathy for the asshat.

[RaleighNCDUer]

12. If you have not fallen for the Terrorists fear crap, what is you rationalization

for assassinating an American citizen for that very reason?

[Douglas Carpenter]

10. What is important is that President Obama has now established a new precedent . So when we have a

right-wing extremist President some day in the future I'm sure they will be just as diligent as President Obama at insuring that we are only killing bad people when they order the assassination of a U.S. citizen and site this action as legal justification. Furthermore, now that the world's only remaining super power has declared that assassinating their own citizens is legal - we can be sure that no other country in the rest of the world will ever overstep and point to this new established precedent and site this action as legal justification in an irresponsible way. What could possibly go wrong with this new legal reality?

[RaleighNCDUer]

13. Just think, all those missed opportunities of past presidents -

Eldredge Cleaver. Timothy Leary. Abbie Hoffman. Jane Fonda.

So MANY who COULD have been assassinated on the same grounds.

[dkf]

18. Jane Fonda? Lol.

I think you are stretching there.

[grattsl]

42. I don't think it's a stretch. I think it's the point.

We live within the rule of law. When the government doesn't respect the rule of law, it gives credence to the idiot TEA party complaints. The government has grabbed too much power, and should be reigned in. The president has gone to far. You can call it whatever you want, but he had an American assassinated. That is too far.

[dkf]

57. How's about Ruby Ridge?

Now that was on American soil even.

[Major Hogwash]

87. Were you there?

I kind of doubt you even know the real story.

[RaleighNCDUer]

64. There are tens of thousands who hate her to this day, thinking she

gave aid and comfort to the N Vietnamese, who believe she advocated the killing of US soldiers.

If we're going to send a drone after one propagandist, why not another?

The point is, without a trial to determine if she ACTUALLY did what the ridiculous right says she did, how would we know?

[GreenStormCloud]

77. Not while she was in North Vietnam and on that anti-aircraft gun.

She was an American citizen on foreign soil helping an enemy. If she could have been targeted then it would have met the same criteria that was just used.

[Demeter]

60. Like Democrats.

[Kurovski]

14. You couldn't just fitz and fizzle on any one of the dozens of other threads

arguing over the empire-fueled murder of that miserable twatty little dick-satchel?

Unrec for nothing new in a newly minted OP.

EDIT: and that "we" shit is frequently a major tell, btw.

[nxylas]

21. This is how it begins

First assassinate a known terrorist. Then assassinate a couple of suspected terrorists. Then maybe some associates of suspected terrorists. After that, who knows? Journalists/bloggers who ask impertinent questions about suspected terrorists?

[Tx4obama]

23. All THREE were terrorists, and all in the same location when the drone attacked.

The Planner, the Propagandist, and the PETN Lover - all in one strike.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=2039331&mesg_id=2039331

---
When terrorists declare war on The USA, The USA has a right to take-em-out!

[KansDem]

30. Time to start dropping bombs on Idaho?

When terrorists declare war on The USA, The USA has a right to take-em-out!

Bring it on!!!

Several Aryan Nations associates have acted on this call to arms. During the early 1980s, for example, Butler followers joined with members of the neo-Nazi National Alliance and Ku Klux Klan splinter groups to form The Silent Brotherhood, known more widely as The Order, which planned to overthrow the United States government in hopes of establishing an Aryan homeland in the Pacific Northwest. In order to raise funds for this revolution, members of the group went on a crime spree in 1983-1984 that included bank robberies, counterfeiting, bombings, armored car holdups and murder. The counterfeiting operation was based at the Aryan Nations compound.

Ostensibly, The Order's activities came to an end in December 1984, when its founder and leader, Robert J. "Bob" Mathews, died in a fire during a shootout with federal agents on Whidbey Island, Washington, and many of its members were caught and incarcerated. Yet The Order, and to a lesser degree Aryan Nations, has retained a mythic status in the far-right underground. Its legend is now perpetuated across the Internet, inspiring a new generation of would-be white revolutionaries and further reinforcing the Aryan Nations "brand."

http://www.adl.org/learn/ext_us/aryan_nations.asp?xpicked=3&item=an

...although the average Idahoan might disagree.

[Major Hogwash]

86. Butler's dead, he died in 2004.

Idaho is the only state in the United States with a memorial dedicated to Anne Frank.

[GeorgeGist]

62. Please cut the crap.

[JVS]

24. You're asking for it now!

;-)

[jefferson_dem]

25. L...L...L... Leave Al-Qaeda Alone!1!!111!

:nopity: Still waiting on some principled soul to start up the "Al-Awlaki, Beloved Martyr" DU Group.

[flamingdem]

63. LOL

My violin is so small you cannot see it with the naked eye!

The spiritual guide of the DU AABM group? Ron Paul!

[frylock]

66. leave the strawman alone

[Douglas Carpenter]

26. EXACTLY!!! If people criticize the government the terrorist have already won!!

[roguevalley]

49. if you don't criticize the government we lose. remember that when

they come for you.

[DCBob]

27. This attitude is what turns off many independents and moderates.

On some matters like national security some liberals simply lack common sense and/or are blinded by their rigid ideology.

[pmorlan1]

36. Ignorant

Yeah, that rigid following the Constitutuion idealogy. Ignorance is stunnning to behold.

[DCBob]

41. I rest my case.

[lamp_shade]

28. Relentless (yet meaningless) pissing and moaning. Ignore them. n/t

[Vinnie From Indy]

31. Obama did much more than kill a "terrorist"

He solidified the notion that the President can kill anyone, anywhere at any time based on his word alone. Is that concept so hard for some of you to understand?

[COLGATE4]

32. And to think that we regularly criticize the Rethuglicans because

of their blind obedience and servile attitude to the 'Commander in Chief'.

[a simple pattern]

33. +1

also their bloodlust and disregard for due process and the rule of law

[ProSense]

38. That

"He solidified the notion that the President can kill anyone, anywhere at any time based on his word alone. Is that concept so hard for some of you to understand?"

...is absolute bullshit!

Facts.

[roguevalley]

51. no. put nixon or bush or reagan there. would you still support that.

or maybe president bachman, palin, perry or romney? They won't bother with laws or rules. they will just kill. what then? If you complain then, you would be a hypocrite. if it all doesn't matter now, it can't matter then.

[phleshdef]

40. Absolute nonsense.

The authorization he used was one that signed off on by Congress and it specifically targets members of the organization that carried out the 9/11 attacks, meaning Al Qaeda. Thats not a "solidified notion that the President kill anyone, anytime, anywhere" or whaever that foamy mouthed nonsense was you are going on about. The only notion was enforced here is that if Congress gives the President the authority to target terrorists, then the President will use it. Until Congress passes a bill that says the President can kill anyone for any reason, then you've got absolutely nothing whatsoever to support your grossly silly little grievance.

[frylock]

67. the same folks that want to scare us into voting for obama with the spectre of pres perry..

just can't seem to understand that concept.

[mikekohr]

34. When You Dedicate Your Life To Placing Bombs On Planes Filled With Innocent Men, Women, and Children

you should not be surprized when we fly an un-manned aircraft filled with explosives through your windshield.

When a mass murderer hides in a foreign country, cowers behind women and children, and continues to threaten, plot, incite, and murder innocents, that person is a grave risk to the security of the United States of America, the world community and an affront to all that is good and decent.

When a person hides behind the law to wage endless mass murder and ceaseless destruction of life and property that person has declared war on the United States. This mass murderer and those that perished with him did not care how many hundreds or thousands had to suffer and die to fulfill his wish of martyrdom. We obliged his death wish and spared thousands the torment that was his twisted vision of paradise on Earth. It is a far better place without him.

Let his name never be repeated. May his ashes drift with the wind in desolate lands and may God have mercy on his soul.

[COLGATE4]

37. Just a pseudo-Old Testament rant. which doesn't address the question. The issue is whether it is

Constitutional for the President of the United States to order the extrajudicial killing of an American citizen. Many of us believe it is not.

[mikekohr]

56. Live by explosive, die by explosive

and hundreds of people will live to die a death other than what these terrorists had planned and wished for, thanks to the Hellfire missle that sent these mass murders to their final judgement.

The courts have stayed away from this issue because of, well, common sense for starters.

[frylock]

70. and what of those who dedicate their job to ordering the dropping of bombs..

on innocent men, women and children. can they expect the same?

[GreenStormCloud]

78. Total agreement. N/T

[pmorlan1]

35. Pitiful

I feel like I'm on a Freeper website. Yeah, let's just throw out the Constitution because it's President Obama. If it had been President Bush you guys would be screaming about it, not for the principle, but merely to WIN against a Republican. Pitiful. What an eye opener.

[Name removed]

39. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Bodhi BloodWave]

44. so you know what people would do now? can you give me next weeks lottery numbers? n/t

[Marnie]

45. A known terrorists?

Where is your solid proof?

Everything we know about this man is hearsay.

[Ikonoklast]

85. That is not true.

There is plenty of evidence out there to the contrary, just calling it hearsay does not negate reality.

The government of this country was not the only one that wanted this guy.

[bvar22]

46. The legal justification for the assassination of an American Citizen by a "Unitary Executive".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejvyDn1TPr8

Just curious, but were you as supportive of Bush-the-Lesser when he grabbed all these powers for the "Unitary Executive"?

Will you be as supportive of the Unitary Executive when President Bachmann or President Perry uses them?



You will know them by their WORKS,
not by their excuses.

Solidarity!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[ClassWarrior]

50. No, now I'm upset that they killed an American citizen. Really.

Do you support the assassination of American citizens by the American government?

NGU.

[Tarheel_Dem]

54. Not me.

:toast:

[Enrique]

58. this sounds like RW radio all through the Bush years

it definitely doesn't sound like DU.

[Name removed]

59. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[lindysalsagal]

61. This guy is a self- admitted terrorist, who publishes his murderous rants online and

anywhere else he can. He's admitted it already. There's no question of his intention to cause terror.

I don't see this as random at all.

Sorry, but he's gotten what's coming to him. He got exactly what he suggested for thousands of innocent americans.

[Bake]

68. Change your headline: "So you're upset that they killed a known American citizen?"

That puts it in a different perspective.

Bake

[Splinter Cell]

71. So....

Maybe you'd rather they didn't go after this guy and he's allowed to continue as a terrorist. He's allowed to continue plotting against innocent people. Would you feel better? If he himself or someone he inspired blew up some building and killed a bunch of people, would you be happier?

There really is no way to defend that viewpoint.

[Bake]

72. Frankly, I'm not losing sleep over al-whatsisname.

He was a bad guy and deserved what he got.

It's the process that bothers me. Or lack thereof. The next target may not be so cut-and-dried.

Bake

[COLGATE4]

73. No, I'd rather they prove that he is/does as you allege he is/does

before they decide to scrap the Constitution and blow him to hell on the say so of the President. If the case against him is as strong as you allege, why not share it with the court before pressing the button?

[Kurovski]

76. Abortion activists terrorizing clinics and doctors, openly threatening their lives

should not be targets of assassination either. Which really is too fucking bad, because i'm an asshole who's not immune to bloodlust--but i fucking cope with it.

Ditto for the American hate groups and stochastic terrorists like Bill O'Reilly who call Doctors "killers" on their national broadcasts.

[Fearless]

69. I'm against the death penalty regardless of who it is used on or how it is used.

No government should have the right to kill a human being just the same as no human being should have the right to kill another human being.

[Phx_Dem]

75. +1

[saras]

79. If you're deliberately going to ask a red-herring nonquestion, OF COURSE you will get flak

AFAIK, no one on DU - NO ONE - is making the argument you claim.

So you already lose.

The real argument - whether a "bad guy" is sufficient to abandon the rule of law for - still stands.

Again with not only American exceptionalism, but Obaman exceptionalism. Whatever standards we use to make these decisions need to be the same, whether the president is Obama or Palin.

[Vattel]

81. good lord some people are ignorant

[Splinter Cell]

88. They sure are.

Don't forget that these motherfuckers that where blown away would have killed anyone on this forum if they had the chance. It's easy to come on here and preach naivete, if you forget that actions like the one that was taken against these three terrorists are what allow you to continue to be able to do so. There is no excuse for being against eliminating these murderous bastards. None.