The last time we had a major progressive social movement ...

[Onlooker]

It won civil rights, women's rights, set the stage for winning gay rights, ended the war in Vietnam, secured progressive social programs, changed our mores so that we became a far more open-minded and tolerant society. In the 1960s, the social movements fundamentally changed this nation and crushed the forces of oppression so badly that even today they can't return us to the dark ages, despite their best efforts.

But, the 1960s also forced Johnson out of office and defeated Humphrey. We ended up with Nixon. But, by then the forces of change were so powerful and had so much momentum that he could do nothing. He was forced to end the Vietnam war, and it was during his reign that women's rights occurred and the Stonewall riots took place.

The 1960s might have given us Nixon, but despite that it was the most progressive time in our modern history. Most of us have fundamentally better lives thanks to the social movements of the 1960s. If OWS continues to grow and develop, with or without Obama we will take a giant step towards becoming a better nation.

[lunatica]

1. kick'd and rec'd

I concur. The assassination of MLK Jr and Robert Kennedy slowed the progress too, but didn't manage to stop it.

[nichomachus]

2. We may have gotten Nixon

but he was way to the left of Obama

Nixon opened the way to China, signed an affirmative action bill and the clear air act. He proposed a health-care plan that was way more "socialist" than Obama's.

He was paranoid and a scumbag, but he did a lot of good things.

[AndyTiedye]

3. I Favor OWS, But We Still Need to Win Elections. If We Lose We're Fukued

> It won civil rights, women's rights, set the stage for winning gay rights, ended the war in Vietnam, secured progressive social programs, changed our mores so that we became a far more open-minded and tolerant society.

Good so far.

> In the 1960s, the social movements fundamentally changed this nation and crushed the forces of oppression so badly that even today they can't return us to the dark ages, despite their best efforts.

They most certainly can, and if they win next year they will. OWS or no OWS. If they win next year, they will have the power to do it all, and they will. Look at what they have done in the states they have taken over.
Even in the face of huge protests. They will do the same on a national level if they win next year. They will repeal Medicare and Social Security. They will pass a national "right to work" law. They will ban gay marriage.
If they get another Justice on the SC, we go back to the 50's with regards to reproductive freedom and probably gay rights as well: Roe v. Wade, Griswold v. Connecticut, and Lawrence v. Texas would all be overturned.

> But, the 1960s also forced Johnson out of office and defeated Humphrey. We ended up with Nixon.

There's the rub. The media will be doing everything in its power to turn this against Obama and in favor of the Republicans. We have to prevent them from doing that.

> But, by then the forces of change were so powerful and had so much momentum that he could do nothing. He was forced to end the Vietnam war, and it was during his reign that women's rights occurred and the Stonewall riots took place.

We retained solid control of Congress throughout the Nixon years. That is why it was possible to impeach him and would have been possible to remove him from office. Now the Repigs Watergate us every day and get away with it.

Now, the Repiglickins control the House and almost control the Senate as well. They also have the Supreme Court, and every Tee Vee station in the country.

> The 1960s might have given us Nixon, but despite that it was the most progressive time in our modern history. Most of us have fundamentally better lives thanks to the social movements of the 1960s.

agree.

> If OWS continues to grow and develop, with or without Obama we will take a giant step towards becoming a better nation.

If the Repiglickins manage to pull out a "win" in the face of all of this I shudder to think what they will become emboldened to do.

[cui bono]

4. It's more important to have a movement that moves the nation back left

than a Democrat that moves it farther right.

We need to courage to move forward with the party's ideals, rather than stand by the party's candidates no matter what they give us. The big picture is what is important. Otherwise we are just flushing the dream down the toilet.

OWS is a great starting point. Get corporate greed out of politics. If we continue having both parties beholden to big interests we are doomed.

[jwirr]

6. More important than keeping the committees out of rethug hands?

Do you like what the rethugs are doing in the House? More important than getting the SCOTUS away from Scalia? I for one do not think we can work just on one front at a time. It is not a question of elections or protests - it is both. We have to hold the ground we still have on the left and work to get more. Letting rethugs win is not going to accomplish that.

[cui bono]

7. I'm not saying I'm going vote for a Republican and that I don't want a Dem POTUS.

What I'm saying is we need to stop simply supporting a Dem president who is not living up to the party's platform and support the platform itself. And in doing so, force the Democratic Party to live up to its principles and ideals - which is what OWS movement is doing and why it is so important. The party's elected officials, in particular the POTUS, are not doing so now and yet there are many who think we are not supposed to criticize Obama. They are still mesmerized and seem to really believe he has done well by the party. It's clear that he has not. So the only answer to that is that they are stuck on supporting a person no matter what they stand for simply because they have a "D" after their name. I say we need to support what that "D" means and hold all elected Dems' feet to the fire and make them support the party platform as well. And that involves criticizing and demanding more from the elected officials but some would have us not do that because they are putting the man before the party and that is a huge mistake and is what is allowing a Dem POTUS to move the country farther and farther to the right and away from our party's ideals.

It's not the case that if we have a progressive movement to bring out party back in line and get a Republican POTUS/congress. It's that we nee the progressive movement to bring the Dem party back. As it is they are lost in the system themselves and so far out of touch with the working people it is truly pathetic. And the people who continue to support the ones who put Wall Street smack dab in the middle of the WH are lost as well. Let's worship our ideals, not our idols.

[jwirr]

8. Good because then we are on the same page. We need to win both

of these wars. NOW.

[cui bono]

9. Cheers!

:toast:

[unblock]

5. i ows continues to be a force, it would turn the "social unrest" key against obama.

right now, obama's a shoo-in for re-election according to lichtman's 13 keys to the presidency, but things could change.

some of the remaining factors in play include the social unrest key (social unrest is bad for the incumbent, regardless of whether the political orientation of the social unrest or the incumbent), and the charisma keys. obama needs to regain his 2008 charisma that's been rather lacking in office, and he needs to hope that whoever the republicans nominate is no reagan (so far that seems safe).