Compared to Bush, Obama is a slight improvement. Discuss.

[denem]

nt..

[polichick]

1. I wouldn't say "slight" improvement - he's a huge improvement...

...in spite of the Wall Street gang in the administration, far too much "reaching out" to sociopaths, and an unwillingness to prosecute high-level criminals or shake up the corporate status quo very much.

Hopefully the OWS movement will inspire a few changes for the good in the next term - perhaps before.

[MrSlayer]

2. A dead aardvark would have been better than Bush.

You aren't even picking the bar up off the floor. The President has been disappointing but I find the Congress to be far more disappointing. None more than the handful of CorporoDems in the Senate. We need to remove the cancer from this party and OWS could be leading the way.

[Swagman]

38. that's true and I agree with the rest of your post. I'm dissapointed

with Obama but then I expect too much. I believe he has operated in the best way he can against a machine that would consume if he had done the things that we all on here want him to have done.

My hope is that a second term he will try to make a real difference.

Overall he has been a circuit breaker that the US needed badly.

[lamp_shade]

3. Feeling a little frisky this morning are we Mr. Bubbley?

[denem]

4. If only ....

DU rules prohibit further comment.

[great white snark]

5. Asked, answered, discussed ad nauseum. What matters now is Obama compared to his GOP opponent.

Bring them on.

[denem]

6. GOP opponent? It's Romney and he's DOA IMO

A 1%er who paid 14% taxes in 2010, sticking to the Party of cutting more taxes for the 1%. No to mention his 1%er history as a job creator. Almost an OWS stereotype from central casting.

[Sam Hain]

7. Discuss?

No. Disgusted. Bush was THE worst excuse for a POTUS we've ever had!

[ellisonz]

32. Welcome to DU!

:donut:

[sellitman]

8. Welcome to my ignore list

:puke:

[Name removed]

19. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[woo me with science]

9. The ACLU is not even sure of that.

Obama and core liberties
http://politics.salon.com/2011/09/07/liberties_3/singleton/

[RC]

10. +100

http://politics.salon.com/2011/09/07/liberties_3/singleton/

Let’s begin with the ACLU’s summary assessment of what President Obama has done with regard to these matters:




Last week, the top lawyer and 34-year-veteran of the CIA, John Rizzo, explained to PBS’ Frontline that Obama has “changed virtually nothing” from Bush policies in these areas, and this week, the ACLU explains that “most policies remain core elements of our national security strategy today.“ At some point very soon, this basic truth will be impossible to deny with a straight face even for the most hardened loyalists of both parties, each of whom have been eager, for their own reasons, to deny it (and even the two differences cited there, though positive, are wildly exaggerated by Obama defenders: the torture techniques authorized by Bush were no longer in use and the CIA black sites were empty by the time Obama was inaugurated; by contrast, there is ample evidence that the Obama administration continues to use torture by proxy and rendition/CIA-black-sites by proxy as well).

[Joe Bacon]

11. The same ACLU that backs Citizen's United?

Sorry, but I lost any respect for the ACLU on their equating free speech with unlimited money.

[frazzled]

14. +1

I've had my own problems with the ACLU over the decades. Half of what they do is great, half I'm not so sure about.

When your focus is so narrowly trained on one thing (here, the first amendment), you tend to take a very myopic, fundamentalist view and lose sight of the larger questions. They often lose the forest for the trees.

[ProSense]

15. You know who else:

The Principled and Pure Court? A Reply to Glenn Greenwald

[woo me with science]

30. Read the report. nt

[ellisonz]

33. I had missed that. It's true. Sheer silliness. "Corporations are people, my friends..."

-10000 ACLU

Thank you! :thumbsup:

[joshcryer]

37. Unions are corporations, ACLU is pro-union.

Read ACLU's position!

[ellisonz]

40. Unions aren't people either.

The idea that the Constitution recognizes an individual right to political participation beyond the individual is not ideologically consistent with the various equal protections provided by that document.

[Tarheel_Dem]

36. +1000 (nt)

[Robb]

39. Are you anti-labor as well as anti-ACLU?

You would be wise, as we often say via-a-vis Kucinich, to read the reason why.

[ProSense]

12. Actually

"The ACLU is not even sure of that."

...the ACLU is sure, it just has a job to do.

Facts:

ACLU, September 2011

No policy or practice of the last decade has brought greater shame on America. But the stain of torture extends far beyond the damage to the nation’s moral standing. The use of torture—and the failure to engage in any formal legal reckoning—has degraded the rule of law in ways that continue to metastasize. President Obama categorically disavowed torture when he came to office, and closed the secret CIA prisons where so much of the abuse took place.14 But the President’s political calculation that the nation must look forward and not backward leaves the door open to future abuses.

Got it: President Bush sanctioned torture; President Obama "categorically disavowed."

That is a huge difference.

Comparing Bush to Obama is utterly disingenuous, and likely an attempt to disquise a personal dislike rather than to make a serious policy argument. The President who saved the economy from ruin is not "slightly" better than the President who drove the economy into the ground. The President who committed to ending the Iraq war isn't "slightly" better than the President who lied the nation into an illegal war that cost the nation the lives of thousands of troops and more than a trillion dollars.

While the ACLU states that indefinite detention continues, the organization has acknowledged Congress' role: WH fact sheet on Guantanamo Executive Order and ACLU response

Reid is finally aligning the legislation with the President's goal for Guantanamo.

ACLU: Justice Is Served (Fair Sentencing Act made retroactive)

A Win for Free Speech: ACLU Recommendations Adopted by DHS!

Whether it's ending DADT, strengthening labor policies and environmental policies, helping low income communities and families and homeless Americans, establishing the CFPB, and other reforms, more than most Presidents, the policies implemented by President Obama will have a lasting impact on real families for generations.

Even a staunch critic of the misstep on environmental policy by this President can acknowledge that he has move the progressive ball forward in significant ways.


Health care reform was a huge step in the right direction.

Montana Gov. Brian Schweitzer Will Seek Health Care Law Waiver To Establish Single Payer In His State

One Million Young Adults Gain Health Insurance in 2011 Because of the Affordable Care Act

HHS announces record number of National Health Service Corps members

Rate Review: Cutting Costs for Consumers and Small Businesses – Chapter One

Reducing costs, protecting consumers: The Affordable Care Act on the one year anniversary of the Patient’s Bill of Rights

One year after the Affordable Care Act’s Patient’s Bill of Rights took effect, the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) released a report summarizing some of the achievements of the health reform law. In the eighteen months since the president signed the Affordable Care Act into law, health reform has had a tangible effect in the lives of millions of Americans. The report discusses how the law is helping to give hardworking families the security they deserve and the reforms in the Affordable Care Act that have helped hold down insurance premiums, hold insurance companies more accountable and strengthen Medicare.

“The Affordable Care Act has made the health care system better for millions of Americans,” said HHS Secretary Kathleen Sebelius. “As a mother, a wife and a daughter, I know how important health coverage is for America’s families. This law is helping to give hard working families the security they deserve and stop insurance company abuses, hold down insurance premiums and strengthen Medicare.”

Recent reports, including the U.S. Census and the National Health Information Survey, have indicated that approximately one million additional young Americans now have insurance coverage due to the Affordable Care Act according to experts. The Patient’s Bill of Rights made it illegal for insurance companies to deny coverage to a child with a pre-existing condition or place a lifetime limit on the care they will provide. Through Affordable Care Act initiatives, 19 million seniors with Medicare have received new free preventive benefits, while efforts to cut fraud and abuse have extended the Medicare Trust Fund by 8 years, strengthening the Medicare program.

To read more about the many accomplishments of the law visit: http://www.healthcare.gov/law/resources/reports/patients-bill-of-rights09232011a.pdf

To read a blog commemorating today by Assistant Secretary for Public Affairs Richard Sorian visit: www.healthcare.gov/blog

And the President saved the auto industry.

[flamingdem]

13. +1 for the facts

as usual. Thanks!

[great white snark]

17. +2 for this factual smack down.

A thing of beauty ProSense. Thank you.

[woo me with science]

25. Read the article.

Read the ACLU report.

[Vattel]

44. +1

[treestar]

56. Appeal to authority

I may support the AcLU at times, but they don't decide who I vote for.

[woo me with science]

65. No, you just choose to ignore their report.

You might try reading it.

[SidDithers]

16. Sonia Sotomayor and Elena Kagen would disagree...nt

Sid

[ellisonz]

34. +2

[opihimoimoi]

18. Obama can open doors,,,W couldn't......nuff said....

[Name removed]

20. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[krawhitham]

21. If Obama pulled a unicorn out of his ass DU would just want him arrested for bestiality. Discuss.

[ellisonz]

35. ...

:spray:

[Name removed]

22. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Mortos]

23. Compared to rectal cancer, birthday cake is a slight improvement. Discuss.

[BklnDem75]

24. Thanks for confirming Obama's having a great week

Keep the distractions coming!

[TheKentuckian]

26. Did the wealth differential go down? Has the overreach of executive power been curbed?

Have our civil liberties been enhanced? Have the ranks of the homeless been reduced? Are corporate pirates and war criminals been held to account? Is our water fresher? Is our air cleaner? Are groceries more affordable? Are the corporations in less control of our government? Has austerity been rejected?
Have the attacks on public education been called off and reversed?

Obama having a great week should mean the people have a great week. The people aren't getting great weeks.

[BklnDem75]

28. Maybe you're just aiming too high

You forgot to add peace on Earth.

[Sheepshank]

58. wow....you got it!

I was wondering why I'm recognizing a recent and sudden uptick in anti Obama harpings.

[Jack Rabbit]

27. Just saying "he's better than Bush" is not something on which to run for re-election

I'll bet he's a kinder, gentler sort than Torqueamda, too.

If that's your point, at least tell us why. Otherwise, this is just flame bait.

[ClarkUSA]

29. What Michael Moore and other Nader voters said in 2000: Gore = Bush. Discuss.

[Swede]

31. Only to idiots,for everyone else they realize it's a quantum leap.

nt

[dionysus]

41. stupid OP. discuss.

[JuniperLea]

42. Yes, let's!

Do you prefer to put purveyors of nonsense on ignore, or do you keep them around for giggles? I was a staunch non-iggie person for a long time. Oh, I built it up a tad during the last presidential primary, but I emptied it out completely after Obama won the general. A few months ago I started building it back up again. There's a lot of concrete in there! I'm still on the fence about deleting them all again. I just don't have the patience for nonsense anymore. Good thing I had children young!

[AtomicKitten]

43. no iggie for me

I prefer my negative horseshit served straight-up!

[JuniperLea]

50. LOL!

Love it!

[dionysus]

45. i wouldnt want to miss the free entertainment they provide!

it used to annoy me mightily, now, all i do is laugh....

:hi:

[JuniperLea]

51. I need to learn to do that...

Heehee!

:hi:

[Sheepshank]

59. well....and I only speak for myself....

some of the stupidity is painfully obvious and fufills a desire for cheap entertainment. There are a couple that cross that line into malignancy. I try to cut the cancer out of my life.

[treestar]

57. Yes

This is the stupidest meme any Republican can try to divide us with.

[ncteechur]

46. This is a dorky thread.

[SkyDaddy7]

47. I wish we Had time travel technology...

Because many here on DU who make such an ABSURD statement need to be forced back in time so that they remember what the difference actually is...And it is not "slight"!!!!!!

[TK421]

48. Compared to Bush and slight improvement are distantly related n/t

[certainot]

49. so you weren't paying attention during bush

[Cigar11]

52. President Obama doesn’t have to pretend to be a Cowboy /eom

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

53. The OP is fucking ridiculous. Unrec!! n/t

[mkultra]

54. compared to bush, you are a slight improvement.

I guess if you think its not an over the top insult to Obama, then it isn't to you either.

[Autumn]

55. In intelligence, a vast improvement. The policies?

Yes, a slight improvement.

[Sheepshank]

60. I wonder how many un'recs this thread got? oh and an unrec from me

[blkmusclmachine]

61. More of the same:

The Powers That Be are NOT in the WH. That's just window dressing.

[WI_DEM]

62. compared to some of the posts here this one is a slight improvement.

but not much. To say Obama is only slightly better than Bush is idiotic.

[Arkana]

63. The OP is a complete falsehood pushed by the far left

out of unbridled, impotent rage that he's not Dennis Kucinich.

Discuss.

[demgrrrll]

64. Coffee Tawk!!!! I'm a little verklempt, Talk amongst yourselves.

[Hippo_Tron]

66. Honestly it depends on what issue is most important to you

If your number one issue is overturning the federal ban on stem cell research, you probably think Obama is a hell of a lot better than Bush. If your number one issue is Supreme Court justices, you probably think Obama is anywhere from markedly better to a hell of a lot better. If your number one issue is ending the use of US military power in the Middle East and South Asia, then you're probably going to think Obama is about the same or marginally worse than Bush.

Different things satisfy different people.