Reasons Not To Kill The Senate Bill - A Graphic Representation

[jefferson_dem]

http://wonkroom.thinkprogress.org/2009/12/21/jane-kill/

[wicket]

1. K & R

[tridim]

2. The DU "everything sucks" contingency - A Graphic Representation

[Aramchek]

31. good one!

you should add a picture of a baby holding it's breath to that

[Orrex]

3. If it isn't single payer, then it totally sucks!!!!!!!!!1!

Or so I've heard...

[ClassWarrior]

26. That's not a fair nor accurate representation of single payer advocates...

...being one myself.

Can we please have a debate where we uplift our allies, and not tear them down?

NGU.

[Aramchek]

32. if you oppose the Bill that is being passed, are you really an Ally?

[treestar]

4. I didn't even know women were charged more than men

k&R

[L0oniX]

6. They are charged more for auto insurance as well.

[sweetloukillbot]

36. I thought men were charged more for auto insurance... n/t

[Undercurrent]

12. Oh yes.

Women are one of the groups who have been routinely abused by the insurance companies.

btw: Not only are they charged more for medical insurance, but auto and house insurance policies are given to the man after a divorce in most states. The woman loses any preferred status she and her husband had built up over the years, and she must start over with a new policy, and pay the new customer higher rates.

[Adelante]

5. Thank you

:hi:

[jefferson_dem]

13. My pleasure.

:hi:

[Cronus Protagonist]

7. Where's the chart about how much I have to pay?

Is there some way to just get fined over and over and not pay it without being jailed? In other words, am I just going bankrupt and homeless or will I also have to go to jail before being homeless?

And here I thought I'd only be in that situation if I got really ill, now I know it's going to happen even if I'm healthy. Good job Democratic leadership! :sarcasm:

[jefferson_dem]

10. Jonathan Cohn provides a chart that may speak to your concerns.

http://www.kaiserhealthnews.org/Columns/2009/December/122109Cohn.aspx

[Cronus Protagonist]

18. I wish it did

Who the hell has a family of four these days? Where's the info on a single individual 50 years old? The couple with ONE child? the SINGLE PARENT?

And these items only look at it from the perspective of a family that's already paying for insurance. Where's the info on how much MORE cash we're going to put out when we start out with NO insurance?

I suspect if the info above was made public one of two things would happen. There would be vast support for the plan, or it would be soundly rejected. The problem as I see it is fear, uncertainty and doubt, and so far not one of the "leaders" has addressed the concerns of single individuals or those who do not currently have insurance.

WHY???

Could it be that the latter would happen? And if the former, why has no one made up nice little tables about it? Seems deficient if there will be some goodness here for the restofus this Festivus.

[Hippo_Tron]

34. The IRS will collect the fine

You can refuse to pay it all you want and not be jailed because the IRS will find a way to collect it. Now if you spend every waking moment of your life trying to subvert the IRS' collection methods (and it will take that because again they are very good at collecting) then yes you could possibly find yourself in prison.

[jimlup]

8. It is a bitter pill but it does have to be swallowed

We'll make it better eventually but it will help people now and that is important.

[Cronus Protagonist]

20. I advocate for spitting it out

That's what humans do when we eat something bitter. Spit and puke.

[FormerDittoHead]

9. The chart assumes, of course, that nothing else can possibly be done. n/t

[SpartanDem]

11. We can expect alot of this

from the kill the bill crowd

[Cowpunk]

28. And a lot of unsourced claims from the less sceptical crowd. NT

[Champion Jack]

14. Thanks for this

[nemo137]

15. Pfeh. Thinkregress you mean.

That well know compendium of RW talking points. I don't even know why I'm kicking and recommending this.

[ProSense]

16. Another reason

here

[Undercurrent]

17. I love informational posts like this!

Thank you so much.

[Zynx]

19. I'd rather go to jail than read this!

[proud2BlibKansan]

21. Women who want abortions are charged MORE than men

Your chart is a FAIL.

[tandot]

22. K & R

[Clio the Leo]

23. So ONLY Democrats will get health care insurance? good!

That's a joke .... see all of the blue people? ..... ah, nevermind. ;)

[gardenista]

24. This sucks! Why aren't you insuring the grey people. Ageist!!!

It's all about the blue people for you Democrats, isn't it?!

Just in case of any confusion:











:sarcasm:

[JimWis]

25. K&R

[vaberella]

27. Ugh...graphic to the extreme. Someone in the senate needs to show this on the floor. n/t

[Garam_Masala]

29. This bill has bad smell to it....no pictures...just facts...

No Single Payer.
This system is true HCR. Everything else is hodge podge.
With SP, every living person is in the same pool, and paying
on their ability to pay based on income.

P.O missing.
Not as good as SP, but the ONLY way to make sure there is competition
to the for profit private health insurance industry.

No re-import of Drugs.
This is missing from both bills as far as I know. Are you aware Big Pharma
passed on to us 11% increase this year? If this bill is not a bonanza for
Big Pharma with mandates and subsidized additional customers then I have
a bridge in Minnesota I can sell you.

No limits on insurance premiums.
Sure they can't drop you or refuse you. But they can jack up premiums
for all their customers until there is enough profit to pay big bonuses.
Why no limits on CEO pay when the TARP recipients and Bailout recipients
are subjected to restrictions?

To sum up, I don't see much cost reduction to health care in these bills.
Big Pharma and Big Insurance are the Big winners. If you don't believe me,
please check their stock performance on Wall Street.

[liquid diamond]

30. Sorry.

It doesn't fit my utopian liberal expectations. Trash this bill and start over!
:sarcasm:

[Hippo_Tron]

33. An honest image showing the improvements and that we have a long way to go

23 million uninsured is still too many and the cost of insurance is still too expensive. I agree that this bill is a net gain but it has to be just the beginning, not the end.

[grantcart]

35. k and r

[jeanpalmer]

37. Your graphic is misleading

because it doesn't show that overall healthcare costs will remain excessive. Real health care reform would have brought down the overall cost significantly, so that the US would not pay twice as much per person for health care as other countries pay.

All they've done with the current reform effort is to shift high costs from one group of people to another group. Some people benefit, others lose. You've listed some of the winners. But the excessive cost of the whole system remains.

Regarding the deficit reduction, a lot of the funding for the new plan comes from Medicare cost reduction, in fact a little more than 40% of the funding. Many people have expressed concern that this is just an accounting gimmick and that the savings will not in fact materialize. It's hard to see how they can squeeze $400 billion out of Medicare, when it's already marginally funded. Beyond that though, the hoped for deficit reduction is only for the ten year period 2010-2019. When viewed annually, from the date when the plan takes effect in 2013 or 2014, the program is seriously underfunded and increases the deficit by $30-$40 billion a year. Projected deficit reduction takes place only because funding revenues are collected for the entire 10-year period while spending occurs only in 5 or 6 of the years. Once we reach 2020, the program will be $30 to $40 billion in the red, at least, and there will be no accounting gimmick available to offset it.

Regarding Medicare solvency, there's nothing in the Medicare trust fund. It's empty. They've spent all the money, just like they have with SS. The solvency til 2017 or 2026 concept is just another accounting gimmick. Medicare is pay-as-you-go. This year for the first time, Medicare did not pay for itself. The payroll taxes assessed to fund Medicare were $4 billion less than the outlays. So Medicare, while not "bankrupt," is underfunded and will become more so. It's kind of an insolvency already.

[HuckleB]

38. k & r

[JVS]

39. This still is projected to leave 23 million uninsured?

WTF!