Let's put this in as simple terms as possible.. you turn against the Democratic Party in 2010 & 2012

[Rosco T.]

You're electing whatever bullshit ReThuglicans come down the pike.

It's simple dammned math.

You want to throw away the base we've worked hard for to get
SOMETHING done, maybe not everything YOU want RIGHT NOW,
you're condemning the country to the real shit sandwich
of Palin, Boner, McConnell, et. al.

Go ahead and be foolish. We have something to build on and can
move forward by dumping the Blue Cross Dems and getting better
to make our position stronger.

Your choice. Remember you're choosing for the country, in some
ways for the world.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

1. That IS the bottom line.

K&R

[Rosco T.]

7. and the UnRec haters have started already...

If we're gonna have the rec/unrec.. let's have it be able to show WHO's doing what?

[pecwae]

17. Here's your Unrec

for whining about the Unrec. One of them is mine. Feel better?

[cherokeeprogressive]

40. Add mine to that. n/t

[StreetKnowledge]

54. Mine too.

Not supporting the Democrats does not mean supporting the GOP. I HATE it when people make that connection.

[freddie mertz]

74. Mine too. Enough "my way or the highway."

Now it is time to PAY.

[Carolina]

119. self delete

[Armstead]

58. I don't usually Unrec but I'll toss one in too

[Hassin Bin Sober]

99. I'm in.

[joeprogressive]

108. It's me with a big unrec. feel better? n/t

[DJ13]

2. Heres a novel idea

The Democratic party wouldnt need to worry about people bolting their party if they would start taking their base serious for a change.

What a concept, eh?

[treestar]

45. It's not the base

The base would not do all this. End of story.

[Armstead]

59. I assume you assume the base is the DLC

[LooseWilly]

61. "base" != "mindless followers";

The base is all them folks for whom a party does shit. If the party stops doing shit for folks, they ain't gonna be the base for long.

Start doing shit for the folks... simple.

Or maybe pass a law extending "personhood for corporations" to include the right for a corporation to vote too. It would do wonders for the employment rates for lawyers... as corporations scramble to set up millions of incorporated subsidiaries to also vote for their interests...

Hell, half a million subsidiaries in SD would be enough for a corporation to "own" 2 senators.

The taxes on those corporations might be enough to balance the budget, so the corporations could be sure to have enough money to subsidize themselves...

[Deep13]

Well, gee, why hadn't anyone explained this before?!

:eyes:

First of all, we are the Democratic Party. I don't mean website posters. I mean voters who are pissed off by the lack of progress. Second, the leadership has turned against us.

The whole point with those of us who are fed up is that it really doesn't matter a whole lot what we do. In swing districts, blue dogs are going to be elected. Period. And we are all screwed as a result.

[Yavin4]

3. This Bill Hand Delivers Working And Middle Class Americans to the Republicans

It's the bill itself that will destroy the Democrats, not the posters on DU. This bill MANDATES that working and middle class Americans PAY hundreds of dollars a month to private health insurance companies, which will use their premiums to pay their CEOs millions of dollars.

[Rosco T.]

5. Except you ignore the non-profit entity that is overseen by the OMB...

.. read the bill before you spread the FUD.

[Yavin4]

8. Child Please...

You have the text of the bill. I have soaring stock prices of the health insurance industry.

[Name removed]

10. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Yavin4]

14. Um. Soaring Stock Prices Aren't Facts?

The fact that investors are buying up these stocks doesn't tell you more than the text of a bill?

[WhiteTara]

28. investors bought deriviatives too

I think that as Will Rogers once said, there is a fool born every minute. Don't look to the wall street for the smartest guys in the room. IF we keep the dems in power in 2010, we will be able to move forward with all our agendas. But, we could get another contract on America as we did in 1994 and we know how that worked out.

[backwoodsbob]

32. what agenda?

to bleed us of every penny we have?

So far we have continued war,wall street bailouts,and mandated buying of private for profit health insurance

[WhiteTara]

60. that's your agenda?

No? I didn't think so. See you in Washington in March. OUR agendas are far different than "the smartest guys in the room" ... or at least mine is.

Single payer would not have even been on the map if it weren't our agenda. We will get there, even if it isn't today.

[LooseWilly]

64. Uhh, single payer still isn't "on the map".

And it's no where near "your" agenda... those who dared to try to talk about it in the Senate hearings were escorted out in hand ties by the police. Like a COPS episode.

Was that part of "your" agenda too?

[WhiteTara]

72. my agenda is of course, decent health care

not insurance. Perhaps like you, I have no insurance and pre existing conditions and 3 years away from medicare. I'm deeply disappointed, but I will not "throw out the baby with the bath water."

Keep calling, writing and demanding single payer. Keep calling, writing and demanding the end to wars (see you in March?) Yes, it does have an impact.

[Xipe Totec]

4. I'll vote for the most liberal choice on the ballot

Always.

That's why I voted for Obama.

If there was a more liberal choice I would have taken it.

Never kick the ball toward your own goalie.

[rwheeler31]

6. You are so right, Coburn is quoting Kos on the senate floor.

Why would progressives feed these worms, it is such a stupid strategy.

[jonnyblitz]

23. who the FUCK cares what they think or say. nt

[Bluenorthwest]

35. Obama has spoken glowingly of Coburn on several occasions

And calls him friend. Does that mean something too? Associations?

[jgraz]

38. Why would any conscious adult be afraid of Tom Fucking Coburn?

These asswipes are going to twist whatever reality is out there. If it's not Kos, it's Dean. If not Dean, it's Franken. If not Franken, Obama. And on and on.

What's STUPID is living in fear of what some brain-dead Repuke might say to his band of drooling acolytes. This is what Obama has done since he got elected, and it's the main reason we have this POS healthcare bill.

[LooseWilly]

65. Thank you, and bravo sir.

The fear is so tangible that I can almost taste it coming through the keys of my keyboard... and tasting with my fingertips is an odd sensation indeed.

:+

[YOY]

9. Have some personal accountability. Stop blaming the left (and calling them extremists).

The impending losses are on the "centrists" and the "centrists" alone.

The pugs at least know how to throw their base a bone...shit they throw them fucking t-bones ad nauseum. Shit we're throwing them t-bones and their still whining and would never vote for us...

Will I vote Democratic? Yes. Will I cheer about it. No. Will those jaded Union boys I talked to in 2008 vote Democratic next time?...looks like they don't care anymore.

[Dr Fate]

106. Exactly- if the public rejects centrism at the polls, shouldnt centrists accept the blame?

Also, I fail to understand why Liberal activists should get blamed for not doing the work that centrist activists & advocates are supposed to be doing.

[YOY]

127. The threats of things getting worse and being labled extremists.

I'm not buying the "extremist" BS anymore. What I stand for is the standard in other civilized countries. Tried and proven is not "extreme".

[depakid]

11. Scolding neither fires up the base- nor changes the dynamics

Only the President and Congress can do that by standing up and FIGHTING for traditional Democratic values.

[Rosco T.]

12. It's the truth and simple math. n/m

[depakid]

21. Maybe so, but it didn't work in 1994- or in 2000 and won't work any better in 2010

Playing to corporate interests and the ephemeral "center" is a lose/lose proposition- something that unfortunately, Democrats seem incapable of learning, no matter how often they are spanked.

They still seem to think that they can forge a center/right coalition, sell their core constituencies down the river and win with the argument: "but Republicans are much worse."

[LooseWilly]

66. Truth is a matter of perspective, and math cuts both ways.

If the party turns away from a significant enough portion of the voters who had hitherto considered themselves to be part of the base, or in the case of several of us... decided to once again take the chance and join the base in hopes that we wouldn't be "sold out again"... if the party decides to take these voters and their issues for granted, to do no fighting for their interests, to basically ignore them once they've squeezed a vote from them... then it is not those who have been turned away from who are liable to blame for not continuing to support the party. It is the fault of the functionaries of the party.

The notion of an obligation of the disenchanted who took a chance on the "Hope Express" to "stick it out" and fight on with a party that will back up the call to those disenchanted many with NO SUBSTANTIVE ACTION... is patently ridiculous.

And, before people start trotting out with the talking points... I should point out that it is those who have joined/re-joined the ranks of Democratic voters to judge whether or not the party is living up to the promises that drew them in... or not. The party can try to spin as they like... but they are not the ones who judge continued membership/loyalty of those who are members... it is the members... those who were convinced that they would be the "base", that will do the judging.

Wake up Democratic Party... kissing babies may not do it... it might be time to consider kissing some asses... rather than trying to lecture them with hollow sounding sound bytes.

[Blasphemer]

26. Well said. Why are frustrated voters held accountable when Democrat Leadership is not?

These people will excoriate those who don't vote and blame them for the failings of those in the White House and Congress. You want people's votes, then do something to earn them. I will never again vote for the lesser of two evils. It simply is not an effective method of creating change.

[Rosco T.]

33. Cause if you don't vote, you're a quitter.

Get a new Dem candidate.

[Blasphemer]

36. Oh the "quitter" tag again? *YAWN*

BTW, not voting for a particular Democrat doesn't mean that one isn't exercising their right to vote at all. If there is a candidate you deem best fit for a particular office, you vote for her or him. If no such candidate exists, should one vote just for shits and giggles?

[LooseWilly]

67. Heh, in that latter case... I always like to vote for Cthulu. Or my mom.

Though random votes for Peace and Freedom Party candidates, just to see what might happen if they actually win, can be fun too.

:+

[neverforget]

70. We didn't quit. Our Democratic leadership (House, Senate, President)

quit us. They rolled over at the first bit of resistance.

[treestar]

46. You are not the base

The base would not be so easy to lose. Period.

[freddie mertz]

77. Then you don't want my vote, right?

Make up your mind.

[Hatchling]

79. If we're not the base, then you don't need us, right?

Insult me some more, see if that can convince me to vote the way you want me to.

I have to face people daily that I convinced to vote for Obama. They are not happy campers, either.

[ima_sinnic]

87. so according to you, the "base" is unquestioning goose-steppers who don't mind being exploited

you're right, I'm NOT "the base" of such an idiotic party as that, and I won't be voting for it again, either. take your "base" and shove it.

[Aramchek]

82. thank goodness you have no vote in the matter, Crocodile Dundee

[Top Cat]

13. Kick

[Nite Owl]

15. I will vote for any Dem who

has the backbone to do the right thing. Voting for this bill the way it stands is not the right thing. They chose what they did, they should have known it would have consequences with the base and I will not be cornered into having to vote for them. If the repukes win they did it.

[Barack_America]

16. Fortunately, for those of us who donated time and money to the 2008 elections...

There is a middle ground.

Would I vote for Obama again? Yeah, probably.

Could I go door to door again, convincing people to vote for him because, "he's not like other politicians"? Definitely not.

[debbierlus]

18. This post is the very premise of what is wrong with the members of the democratic party

Unconditional support for no representation.

No.

This sick, twisted, pathetic game has to end. And, it will only end when we stop being a bunch of wimpy enablers who bend over everytime single time.

I am not interested in playing a game of pretend anymore.

[KakistocracyHater]

130. Unconditional support for no representation.

You put it perfectly. I feel the same way.

[AndyA]

19. Hey, here's a new concept for the Democratic Party to try for a change...

Why don't they KEEP THEIR DAMN PROMISES?

They make these pie in the sky promises to progressives to get their support, money, and votes, and then they crap on us.

Why don't they just do what they say they're going to do for a change?

If Obama told us he during the campaign he was going to force a mandatory, half-baked, corporate profit-pushing, women's choice limiting health care "reform" bill on us, he would have lost a lot of voters.

If he'd told us he was going to continue Bush's secrecy, torture cover up, wars, and support of big business, he would have lost a lot of votes.

If Obama had told gays they'd just have to wait until he got around to DADT, equality, etc., he would have lost a lot of those votes as well.

If Dems would just do what they promised they'd do, no one would have to worry about the GOP gaining seats in 2010 or 2012, because people would be HAPPY WITH DEMOCRATS and would want to make sure to keep moving forward on the progress.

Ultimately, it's the Democrats in Congress who have the choice on what happens, not us. They cannot expect the same people they lied to in the past to vote for them again and again.

[kenny blankenship]

20. So your best argument is extortion?

[treestar]

Explain how this is going to work

I find it very entertaining.

Who are you going to vote for? What will be the outcome? Who will win?

Logic is not "extortion." LOL. Who is threatening you with what? You're the one making the threat, but shooting yourself in the foot with it.

[kenny blankenship]

52. Then you agree your best argument is extortion - that's all I needed to know

thanks.

[ima_sinnic]

90. sorry, Rahm, we won't be taken for granted again

"who else ya gonna vote for?" that attitude reeks of the smug, and it just makes me feel all the more motivated to vote for somebody else--someone with a proven record of fighting for We The People. Dr. Dean is looking good for 2012, or Dennis Kucinich, or I might even vote for Ralph Nader. At least I know what I'm getting with them, and a direct line between my wallet and the bank accounts of greed-head war-mongering useless CEOs, enforced by the IRS, is not one of them.

But I'm sure, starting around, oh, March 2011, Obama will again be a "fierce advocate" of something or other, thinking those idiot progressives have a short memory and can be thrown a bone that will "bring them around." think again.

[Wardoc]

96. Exactly! (nt)

[msongs]

22. everybody who disagrees with the OP is a hater hater hater lol, yeah right nt

[peacebird]

24. *I* am not choosing for the country - CONGRESS and OBAMA are to blame if Dems lose in 2010 & 2012

PERIOD.

Deliver NOTHING you promised in the campaign and BLAME THE BASE? Fuck you.

Keep the same path as Bush - SURGE SURGE SURGE!!! and expect the base to support you? LOL!

The surge in Iraq has clearly worked SO WELL. Not.

The DLC has taken over the former "Democratic party" and now our choice is repuke or Repuke-lite.

Will I support Repuke Lite DLC because you say it is something "we can build on"? LOL

screw that. I have voted for the lesser of two evils FAR TOO LONG.

[Blasphemer]

27. Thank you! I'm tired of blame being placed where it doesn't belong. nt

[Raine]

On point

Thank you! :thumbsup:

[treestar]

48. so then get the greater of two evils

and take some responsibility as a voter.

[LooseWilly]

68. How about this: I voted for Nader in 2000. I helped put Bush in the WH. And I can live with that.

Do you really want to goad me and my ilk into doing so again? I voted for Obama in '08... but I'm not afraid to vote for my brother's car in '12, as it's old enough to be president. I can write in it's license plate number and state of registration... it woudn't be that hard.

'63 Dodge Dart in 2012!! -It has a push button transmission!!

[ima_sinnic]

91. you didn't help put Bush in the WH--the people who voted for Bush did that

yeah, my short list for 2012 includes Dean, Kucinich, and Nader.

[Carolina]

120. acrually the fucking Supreme Court put Bush in office

[StreetKnowledge]

55. Amen.

You said that one better than I could have.

[Carolina]

118. Well put, peacebird

and I heartily agree ... we have voted for the lesser of two evils far too long. They are all a bunch of lying bastards.

It struck me recently that I can no longer stand to listen to POTUS and react to him just as I did to Bush. Now when he appears on TV news clips, etc. I either change the channel or hit the mute button until he shuts the fuck up.

Sad, aint it. What a difference a year makes!

[cliffordu]

25. K&R.

[IndianaGreen]

29. Double-Plus Good

We must ban thoughtcrime!

[pansypoo53219]

30. gotta get rid of the dead wood 'democrats'.

fresh new fighting democrats.

[Rosco T.]

31. which was EXACTLY what I said... n/m

[Hatchling]

80. That's what we thought we did this election.

Guess we were wrong.

[Clio the Leo]

34. Seems like a fairly basic concept to me. NT

[ThePhilosopher04]

37. I'd rather have a "bullshit ReThuglican" than a bullshit Dem...

any day...at least with a "bullshit ReThuglican" I know where the attack is coming from and I know how to fight against it...with bullshit Democrats, you have to keep your head on a swivel because you never know when you're gonna get shot in the back by "friendly fire."

[jgraz]

39. Good idea. You just need to call 40% of the Democrats and convince them to VOTE in 2010.

I'd start dialing now.

[Honeycombe8]

41. "They drink the sand 'cause they don't know the difference."

I never understood that statement before now.

I understand your point, but it is not okay to drink sand because you think it's the same thing as water and not as bad as urine. It's still sand and not good.

[GreenPartyVoter]

43. +1

[bigwillq]

42. Naw, I don't wanted to be blamed

for staying, and increasing the number of troops, in Afghanistan. I guess I can be since I voted for Obama. Will have to rethink that decision in 2012.

[treestar]

47. Then you'd be responsible for even more

a Republican President would send even more people in.

And start new wars.

[bigwillq]

50. Did I say I was voting for the GOP?

:shrug:

[treestar]

51. Isn't the idea that there aren't enough votes and if the Democratic

vote is split or stays home the Republicans win?

You don't get to disavow responsibility for the result.

[bigwillq]

53. I am voting.

For a candidate that shares my views. I can't help if the Democratic vote is split.

[treestar]

44. k&r

This country cannot afford another right wing Congress or President ever again.

[ima_sinnic]

94. self-delete

why bother

[Indenturedebtor]

49. Either the Democratic party stands for Democratic ideals or it doesn't

Either they earn our votes or they don't. I'm not voting for anyone but die-hard liberals and I don't care what party they pretend to belong to.

Oh and I will never again vote for the lesser of two corporate whores.

[saltpoint]

56. I will defer to people who can crunch numbers like Nate Silver -- god,

I wish he had been my pal in junior high school math class -- but any, people with a gift like Nate who could tell us how the arithmetic would slice:

If Obama, as expected, seeks re-election, and is nominated;

If a notably weak rather than a strong but vulnerable GOP ticket is nominated (say, Palin or Jindal or Barbour as the notably weakies and say, Huck or Romney as the strong but vulnerable possibilities... Romney's percentage in Ohio, Indiana, North Carolina, and New Hampshire, for example, would be more competitive than Palin's or Jindal's or Barbour's.);

If the economy spins downward and Obama's approval sinks, what the percentage of Obama's 08 supporters would stray;

If the economy improves slightly or significantly, what percentage of independents would stay;

If the Far Right can't stomach Romney's Mormon faith and run someone even MORE Far right to the right of the GOP ticket -- say, Tom Coburn gets Potomac Fever, or Rick Santorum somehow manages to do better in the GOP primaries than I think he will;

If Palin finishes third or fourth in Iowa in January of '12 and before midnight announces that she will still seek the White House as a third party wolf-shootin' segregationist apocalyptic Christian fundie nutbag;

or

If Fate conspires to render some of the above moot in the coming 2 or 3 years and an entirely fresh shake needs to be shook.

I was very impressed with Nate Silver this last election and I hope he is around for a long time.

[Armstead]

57. Great choice -- Inept Corruption vs. Nasty Horrorshow

[racaulk]

62. If you have to resort to fear to keep people in line...

...you've already lost.

K&U

[NorthCarolina]

63. I think that you are automatically assuming disgruntled Dems will vote Republican, when it is more

likely that such voters will be focusing on the primaries wherein they will actively support Progressive Democratic candidates over incumbent Conservative Democrats in an effort to return the party to being an advocate for the people.

[704wipes]

69. Not turning against the democrats, just Evan Bayh

because he is NOT a democrat !!
I will vote against him in the primary and if he runs in November, I will vote against or scratch the race if I am feeling nice that day.

[Hippo_Tron]

71. Obama didn't make his incompetent horse salesman buddy FEMA director

And being from New Orleans that's all of the change I need to get out to the polls and vote for Democrats over Republicans. When Republicans start running candidates who aren't either incompetent or crazy then I will consider setting my baseline higher than merely a competent administrator who is capable of running the government. But after 8 years of the worst President in history, it's a major relief just to have that.

[freddie mertz]

73. Too late. You have to earn my vote, don't take it for granted.

Don't blame me for what my elected representatives have done.

[SacredCow]

75. You've got it totally backwards.....

The Democratic party has turned away from its constituents. Ergo, many constituents will remember this in the voting both in 2010 and 2012. THAT is the simple math lesson that needs to be learned, and heeded.

[asdjrocky]

76. Keep it up.

Keep scolding the wrong people.

[Hatchling]

78. I'll put this in the simplest terms possible.

It's this Administration and this Congress that has "thrown away the base".

We work our asses off every election, donate money and time and we are ignored after the election. We are told to be patient. We are threatened with the Sarah boogieman. Yada, yada yada.

It's YOUR choice to throw the left out. If the Democrats need us so badly to win, hadn't they better do something to earn our vote besides mouth promises they never intend to keep? The "loonie left" has been burned badly AND insulted.

And you still want us to work our asses off for you? :rofl:

[Aramchek]

84. good luck getting anything done for LGBT with Palin in office

[ima_sinnic]

92. good luck getting anything done for LGBT with Obama in office

the "fierce advocate" AGAINST single-sex benefits for federal employees. I'm not gay, but that leaves a very, very bad taste in my mouth. Imagine that--the president who "doesn't have time yet" for LGBT had enough time to go out of his way (or "he" did, figuratively) to challenge a court case that would have upheld the very thing he promised. Just shows he's a liar, that's all. I want to vote for someone who's not a liar, about LGBT issues, and about habeas corpus (the "constitutional scholar"--lol).

[Aramchek]

100. your cynicism is so thick that I can smell it

you will have no effect on Obama, however.

but don't let that stop you from embarrassing yourself.

[ima_sinnic]

103. believe me, I'm under no illusion that I or anybody else has "an effect" on Obama

unless they happen to have a desk in an office bigger than my house and a bank account bigger than the entire economy of a third world country.

but continue with your delusion that YOU "have an effect" on him.

[Aramchek]

112. I know I have an effect on him. I helped put him in office and I'll help keep him there.

[ima_sinnic]

124. oh, I thought you meant "an effect" on his POLICIES

silly me ...

well, for that matter, I too "had an effect" on his life by putting him in office. I will also strive to have an effect on him in 2012--me and millions of others who might not be too happy by then--we'll see.

[Aramchek]

81. the Haters are either not smart enough to realize that or so filled with spite that they don't care

Disgusting.

[Armstead]

85. Thank you Sean

"Hater" That's Hannity's favorite word for liberals too

[Aramchek]

88. you know what you're doing, but do you know why?

[ima_sinnic]

93. you got enough hate to go around, I can't top that

take your hate and shove it, I'm not going to be insulted into voting for your shitty corrupt candidates to "save" you from Palin. it's obvious you and your ilk have nothing for disdain for "the haters," so go fuck yourself. I urge you to go door-to-door with your "appealing" message ordering people to vote for the candidate YOU think they should. You have such a "winning" way about you, how can they resist?

[Aramchek]

98. I don't hate you, I pity you

and all those who surround you.

[ima_sinnic]

105. save your pity for the victims of our imperialist war-profiteering policies (nt)

[Exultant Democracy]

83. I was on the front lines in 2006 and 2008. I'm not turning against the Dems, they are.

[Vinca]

86. The Democrats in power have abandoned us. We haven't abandoned them.

So we should work to get Democrats elected just for the sake of getting someone with a (D) after their name elected . . . even though they're channeling a Republican? Maybe if a few go down they'll wake up and realize the Democratic wing of the Democratic Party actually does matter.

[ima_sinnic]

89. so the democrats DO want my vote?! huh, you coulda fooled me.

I guess they'll have to run somebody I want to vote for, eh?

It's not my responsibility to "save the base"--I think that job belongs to the candidate, don't you?

unrecced for the total idiocy of the post, the unoriginality of trying to use vote hostaging as any kind of justification for voting for dems, and failure to see that it's the candidates and the politicians themselves who lose the elections--so now you know not only who one of the unrecs was, but WHY.

[Wardoc]

95. We won't be threatened anymore. You ignore us, you mock us, you don't get our votes or money.

If there has to be a bloodletting to get a real seat at the table from now on so be it.

[Jennicut]

97. The truth is there will be no blood letting. The Dems will move further to the right

if the Rethugs get the Presidency in 2012 or control of the House and or Senate in 2010. If the Dem. base is ignored now we will be thought of as non existent with a Rethug in power. That is the reality. When the Dems lost the majority in Congress in 1994 Clinton did not move to the left. He moved further to the right. Nader getting votes in 2000 did not lead to a Progressive revolution. The answer is the country is never going to be progressive and politicians are corrupt. I doubt we will never get a real progressive as President because to get elected one needs to get an incredible amount of money to win. All Presidents will be centrists or conservatives. I personally thought Obama would be a bit more to the left then Clinton but no progressive savior. Maybe I need to find my old posts during the election.

[jenmito]

101. Just be happy that this site does NOT represent the majority of Dems. n/t

[ShortnFiery]

107. But it does much more than you think. Economic hard times makes people pay attention. eom

[jenmito]

109. Obama saved the economy from falling off a cliff. But I don't know what your post has to do with

what I said.

[ShortnFiery]

114. President Obama saved NOTHING. His loyalty is to The Corporate World ...

not for The People.

[jenmito]

116. Despite your opinion, he DID. I sure hope you didn't vote for this

"war monger." :shrug:

[ShortnFiery]

117. I did. I did NOT know that he would TWICE expand the Afghanistan War.

I'm disappointed more than words can say.

[jenmito]

121. You should've known. It's common sense that when he said he thought

Afghanistan was the "right war" and a "war of necessity," he'd add troops (like he said he'd do).

[ShortnFiery]

128. What you term "common sense" I call "warmongering" ... there's less than 150 of "the ENEMY" in

Afghanistan, yet President Obama is continuing to let the MIC turn these people's villages into *parking lots.*

It's morally abhorrent ... no, when al Qaeda was sent out of Afghanistan I BELIEVED that President Obama would use what you term "common sense." INSTEAD, he is serving his MASTERS OF WAR. :grr: :nuke:

[jenmito]

129. If you voted for him,

you assisted in the "warmongering." And our troops are in Afghanistan for the al Qaeda, the safe havens, to help train the Afghans, etc. But keep thinking Obama=Bush with that "MIC" BS.

[Dr Fate]

111. Then blame the "center right" majority of DEMS if they fail to make it happen for DEMS

As opposed to the apparent minority of far left liberals who had little or no input as to having a PO.

I fail to see why the left is even being discussed anymore- if the public goes tot he polls & rejects DEMS with centrist records, then we should blame "the majority of DEMS" who failed to make the case for them, not Liberal activists...

DLCers & Blue Dogs always tell us that the US is a center right country- great- then they will have no problem finding clear eyed, pragmatic, center-right DEM activists to pound pavement, donate & advocate for them.

[jenmito]

115. Our country isn't "center right." This board, though, does not represent the

majority of Dems. Something like 83% of liberal Dems. (including me) support Obama. That's not the case here.

[depakid]

123. Trouble is- Dems can only win with enthusiatic volunteer support

If (I take it as a given at this point) the current tendency continues, the dynamic will look like this:

Think about 1994. Pundits credited major Republican victories to angry white men, Hillary's failed healthcare plan, and Newt Gingrich's "Contract with America." But the defeat was equally rooted in a massive withdrawal of volunteer support among Democratic activists who felt politically betrayed. Nothing fostered this sense more than Bill Clinton's going to the mat to push the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA).

Angered by a sense that he was subordinating all other priorities to corporate profits, and by his cavalier attitude toward the hollowing out of America's industrial base, labor, environmental and social-justice activists nationwide withdrew their energy from Democratic campaigns. This helped swing the election, much as the continued extension of these policies (particularly around dropping trade barriers with China) led just enough Democratic leaning voters in 2000 to help elect George Bush by staying home or voting for Ralph Nader.

No place saw a more dramatic political shift than my home state of Washington. In November 1992, Democratic activists volunteered by the thousands, hoping to end the Reagan-Bush era. On Election Day, I joined five other volunteers to help get out the vote in a swing district 20 miles south of Seattle. Volunteers had a similar presence in every major Democratic or competitive district in the state. The effort helped Clinton to carry the state and Democrats to capture eight out of nine House seats.

But by 1994 grass-roots Democratic campaigners mostly stayed home, disgruntled. In Washington State, there were barely enough people to distribute literature and make phone calls in Seattle's most liberal neighborhoods, let alone in swing suburban districts. Republicans won seven of our nine congressional races, and reelected a Senator known for baiting environmentalists.

The same was true nationwide.

I spent that campaign season traveling to promote a book on campus activism, staying with friends long involved with progressive causes. Everywhere I went, critical races would go to the Republicans by the narrowest of margins. Yet my friends and their friends seemed strangely detached, so disgusted with Democratic politics that they no longer wanted anything to do with it. Surveys found that had voters who stayed home voted, they would have reversed the election outcome. Even a modest volunteer effort might have prevented the Republican sweep.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/paul-loeb/hillary-and-the-politics-_b_73957.html

[Dr Fate]

102. Are you saying that Centrists & conservatives are not going to come through for DEMS?

If the public does not like Obama's or the DEMS records, and acts accordingly, then that means they oppose centrist efforts.

Seems that if DEMS run & lose on a centrist or center-right record, then you should blame centrists activists for not working hard enough for their candidates.

I fail to understand why you are blaming Liberal DEM activsts in advance for the failures of centrists & their supporters.

If centrists like what is going on, then centrists better get to work. If they fail, blame them, not Liberals.

It would be nice if centrist & Blue Dog advocates/activists could accept some personal responsibility for a change.

Again- if voters reject Obama or DEMS, then that will be based on their centrist records & the failure of centrists supporters- not on any thing Liberals made them do.

[ShortnFiery]

104. All the name calling and intimidation in the world will not get me to vote for a corporate democrat.

Not. This. Time.

Our nation has already morphed into economic fascism. As it gets worse, I sure as hell will not help put a DEMOCRATIC FACE on the ensuing TOTALITARIAN GOVERNMENT. :(

[winyanstaz]

110. I think we are a big enough base..that we can elect anyone we want too.

yes we can...IF we can work together.

[yurbud]

113. and in exchange for voting for the Dems, we should be happy with 3% change

same foreign policy, same no strings attached wall street bailout, same corporate profits first approach to every problem, even education reform.

Democrats need to offer more than a president who can speak proper English.

[dcsmart]

122. i am Dem...and there are a lot of good Dems in office

and i agree with their positions. so, that is that for me...

[Generator]

125. Why don't you e-mail that to Obama?

Because I'm tired of being blackmailed into voting for Democrats that act like Republicans. IF he starts acting like one and keeping any promise then maybe we wouldn't have Republicans in 2012 or 2016. But he sure is making it seem like that's what he wants.

[lunatica]

126. For some people it never ceases to be black or white wid us or agin us...

Being disappointed doesn't automatically make any thinking person run off the join the Republicans.