For the 1000th time, you can DISAGREE with Obama on HCR and the WAR and still vote for him!

[KansasVoter]

Why does it seem like people here assume you will not vote for Obama in 2012 if you post complaints about him?

I think the HRC bill is crap! A gift to the insurance companies!

But I WOULD NEVER vote GOP no matter what, and it would take a miracle candidate for me to not vote for Obama in the 2012 primaries.

It is like this place is saying "Support Obama 100%, no matter what, or you are a GOP supporter"

You sound like Bush saying "You're either with us or against us in the fight against terror!"

You can be for Obama and still not like a few of his decisions.

Why is this not common sense here??

[bigwillq]

1. K and R.

:thumbsup:

[Cant trust em]

2. and just because you don't want to vote for the GOP...

doesn't mean that you have to vote for Obama.

Abstention is also a possibility.

[bigwillq]

3. Write somebody in (nt)

[Cant trust em]

4. another great option.

I'll probably wind up voting for Obama. He's going to have to fuck up a lot more than he has for me to not support a GE bid.

[bigwillq]

9. Too soon to tell for me

We always have so few choices in a GE. Even if there are several other candidates from other parties, you know that a D or R is eventually going to be the winner. Sometimes it's the lesser of two evils.

I wouldn't vote for Obama if election day were today. But three years is a long way off. We'll see.

[Cant trust em]

10. I worked on the campaign as a field organizer

so I have some personal loyalty, but you're right 3 years is a long time from now. I'm not sure how this whole thing is going to shake out.

[bigwillq]

12. No one knows how it will shake out

for better or worse. I like to bitch and moan (like many here), but isn't that the point of a DISCUSSION board?!?!? :P ;) :)

[Cant trust em]

16. I also like to talk about what has gone right.

I think that too many times this board just winds up being a complaint forum. Good things get taken for granted. I have a theory that the general attitude of cynicism being the driver for political participation is what makes America so conservative. It's easier to see what's gone wrong than what's gone right, so that's a theme that plays well into the GOP's meme that government can't do anything right.

[bigwillq]

17. I like to talk about what's gone right too

but it's more fun to talk about what's gone wrong, especially on a discussion board!!! :P ;) :)

I also think it's interesting, and amusing, how people judge others on a message board. I guess no one here's ever heard of a devil's advocate. This is not directed at you, just in general.

[Cant trust em]

18. I'm with you on the devil's advocate thing.

I love arguing both sides. I really appreciate having an honest discussion with people that doesn't result in name calling or putting words into my mouth.

[bigwillq]

24. Name calling bugs me

And a lot of people (on both sides of the argument) do that here. I think it negates their argument.

I give people the benefit of the doubt and think that those people are not really like that in real life. And I am not just talking about the gloom-and-doom people. There are a lot of hardcore supporters of the president and this administration, some very well-respected and prolific posters, who must be so passionate about their cause that they are blinded from being open-minded and negotiable. Those people are just as bad as the negative nellies. And those people are some that resort to the name calling just because we don't agree with their point of view.

[Cant trust em]

35. And some people resort to name calling because it's all the ammunition they have.

They don't have an intellectual grasp of the argument, so they just use ad hominem attacks.

I have my sig-line because of some name calling that I witnessed going on against another poster. I wrote this somewhat windbaggish post about the need for respect for other's ideas on DU. It got 50+ recs and I thought that was nice. There were also some posts from people who love the environment of negativity on the internets. I guess I'm crazy for wishing that people could actually disagree without being disagreeable.

[Rosco T.]

29. a non-vote is +1 for the GOP. Simple math. n/m

[Cant trust em]

36. I feel that way sometimes, yet I also feel like people need to vote their conscience. nt

Sometimes you need to call a bluff.

[racaulk]

5. This cannot be said often enough.

Having doubts about HCR does not equal not supporting Obama, hoping that he fails, hating him, bashing him, wanting Sarah Palin to be President, etc. These are false and disingenuous "arguments" that are only meant to silence dissent.

It's also reminiscent of "If you hate America so much, why don't you just leave!"

K&R

[DJ13]

6. And criticisms arent always born of hate

Most often we criticize because we believe he's going in the wrong direction and getting bad advice .......we want to see him succeed, not fail by going the wrong way.

[leftofcool]

7. There is a third option

[elocs]

8. Obviously you can disagree with Obama on HCR & War and choose not to vote for him also.

Personal choice. Nobody here gets to tell anyone else how they choose to vote based on their own conscience, either for Obama or not for Obama.

[Ozymanithrax]

11. Consder the Health Care bill a triumpth...Afghanistan is an Imperial act

I've noticed a few people that realize the only way to punish a party in our system is to remove it from power. These few (I can not put a number to it) feel betrayed and will sit out the election, or join a progessive party, in or to punish the Democrats for not doing what their constituents want them to do. Republicans did something similar in 2008.

It could hurt the Democratic Party or have no affect depending on the numbers and how Republicans turn out.

Me, at this time I will vote for Obama in 2012, but I keep my optons open just in case someone more qualified enters the race who has a chance of winning against a Republican. We are a two arfty system and there is no real alterntive to the two parties.

[Skittles]

13. "not like a few of his decisions"

we are talking huge, major fucked up decisions here, not what kind of fucking dog he chose

[KansasVoter]

23. But ever vote GOP?

[Skittles]

37. I'd never vote repuke, but I won't vote if I dislike all the candidates

[KansasVoter]

46. Dumb choice. Someone has to be better!

[Fire1]

14. Yeah, but you'd just be voting for him because a 'D' is by

his name. That's a no no don't ya know.:sarcasm:

[dave29]

15. I agree with you 1000%, unfortunately many have outright said they will not

vote for him, or at all, because of these things.

[Duke Newcombe]

19. This. Off to the Greatest with you!

Of course, what you're saying sounds too much like sense, here.

[branders seine]

20. but can you disagree with him

on civil liberties
GLBT rights
bank bailouts
wimpy green policy
lack of real stimulus
no regulation of the financial sector
Iraq
Afghanistan
torture
prosecution of war criminals
and health care

and still vote for him?

[KansasVoter]

22. No, but would you ever vote GOP

[bigwillq]

31. No, I could just vote for Obama.

:evilgrin:

[proud2BlibKansan]

21. Proud to K&R

[phleshdef]

25. Disagreement isn't the problem. Its the nasty framing that some are using to voice it.

[Captain Hilts]

27. The "He's no different from Bush" doesn't take a thread anywhere it should go. nt

[Captain Hilts]

26. Exactly right. Folks here don't get that. You know who they are! nt

[Starbucks Anarchist]

28. Because it's not framed that way.

So many posts engage in the "He's just like Bush," "He's a DLC corporate stooge," "Hope and change was bullshit" hysteria that one can only assume said people wouldn't vote for him again, if they even voted for him in the first place.

[krawhitham]

30. NO NO NO, It is all or nothing for these R--- opps Left wing nuts

[Unvanguard]

32. Your stance is fine with me.

But there is a lot of talk on here of refusing to vote for him or other Democrats again, and that is problematic. Whatever you think of President Obama, President Palin is infinitely more terrifying....

[liberalmuse]

33. Frankly, I'm sick of it.

It's a sign of a lack of intelligence when people are unable to think in the gray areas. Too many Americans are incapable of thinking beyond absolutes and it's killing us as a nation. Some of the silliness even here on DU is gag inducing. It's like watching a bunch of pre-schoolers argue about a toy.

[mkultra]

34. actually, i think they are saying dont bash Obama 100%

that's pretty much all they are saying.

[jenmito]

38. It's because certain posters here SAID that Obama lost their vote for '12.

It couldn't be any clearer than that.

[bigwillq]

39. And do we really know they won't vote for him in 2012?

:shrug:
Your statement is just as accurate as mine.

[jenmito]

40. No-we can only go by what they tell us.

If someone here tells us Obama lost their vote for '12, we kind of have a reason to assume that they won't vote for Obama in '12. The OP asks why some of us "assume" some here who disagree with Obama on the Afghan war and the HCR bill won't vote for Obama in '12. :shrug:

[bigwillq]

41. Do you really believe everything you read

on a message board? :shrug:

[jenmito]

42. So in your opinion,

if someone here says they're going to vote 3rd party and they write posts advocating for that person, they shouldn't be banned because we can't really believe what people tell us on message boards? I think you're missing the whole point of this (or any other) message board. :shrug:

[bigwillq]

43. Yup, for the most part

We may never know the real truth. But the truth is out there. woo woo hoo woo

[jenmito]

44. So, there should be no rules since

words are just words? Thanks for letting me know I should disregard everything you say here. :hi:

[bigwillq]

45. I don't run this site

so it's not up to me to decide what the rules are. :hi:

[jenmito]

47. I didn't say it was...

I said since you made your opinion clear, I know not to take what you say seriously. You could very well be lying.

[racaulk]

48. .

:kick: