Maybe it was a good thing that happened this last week. It showed the mentality

[madfloridian]

not just of the party and the leadership, but of almost every Democratic forum I have read.

The mindset was shown in sharp clarity when a private citizen spoke out on the health care bill.

It has become almost unbearable to read the gloating posts.

It has shown a deep divide, one that makes it clear that those of us who appreciated the insight given by Dean about the health care bill...insight no one else was bothering to give...are not appreciated nor accepted by party leadership, the media talking heads, and the forums where we post.

I don't think I know why, exactly. Maybe a carry-over from 2003, maybe other things.

But there is a scorn that is held toward those of us have decided to speak on the issues instead of just going along with the party line.

The scorn shows a lack of acceptance of varying views, a lack of tolerance for those who point out that we appear to be going the wrong direction...sharp right.

I posted before about the scorn and ridicule coming our way. It is getting worse today, at blogs, forums, on TV.

Do a search of blogs on the topic, there are more lectures to Dean than there are discussions of the real contents of the bill. You would think the bill has become sacred, and we are sacrilegious.

This is not worded well, but I doubt it will matter. There does not appear to be much critical thinking going on, so maybe no one will notice.

I worry much about next year if the party leadership keeps "liberals" "progressives", open thinkers...in their sights as targets.

So it is good thing to get it out in the open. The scorn and ridicule are hard to deal with, but better now than later.

[golddigger]

1. K&R

[NJmaverick]

2. Are you talking about your scorn for those that didn't follow the teachings of Howard Dean

(at least before he changed his mind) or is there another form in this forum that is dominated by anti-Obama and anti-Democrat sentiment?

[madfloridian]

6. Not arguing. You decide.

Doesn't matter how or what anyone says or how carefully it is worded.

It just doesn't matter.

[Ken Burch]

8. It's long since been proven that hostility to the Senate version of the bill

is NOT anti-Democrat(by the way, a REAL Democrat would say "Anti-Democratic". "Anti-Democrat" is Freepsprache) or anti-Obama, so please stop repeating those smears.

[girl gone mad]

25. I know s/he's been told that several times now.

Yet continues to use the term of disrespect.

[LooseWilly]

9. Funny that considerations of Dean's criticisms should be cast as some sort of cult indoctrination...

Considering that that was how the Right painted Obama supporters.

Coincidence?...

[depakid]

3. The posts won't be so gloating on November 3, 2010

Though the usual suspects will still be blaming progressives for their own pandering policy failures and lack of foresight.

[ProSense]

4. John Harwood is an idiot

Why are you using him to drum up pity?

[babylonsister]

7. Yep. Per Steve Benen...

CNBC's John Harwood is taking cheap and unnecessary shots at progressive opponents of health care reform. Completely uncalled for.

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/

linked to this:

http://theplumline.whorunsgov.com/political-media/journalists-cheerfully-urinating-on-senate-bills-critics-part-ii/

Journalists Cheerfully Urinating On Senate Bill’s Critics, Part II

[Armstead]

10. You are proving her point. Not asking for "pity" ...But your behavior is being pitiful

People like you refuse to even consider other perspectives or respectfully "agree to disagree."

People who have problems with this bill are not your enemy.

[ProSense]

13. Wrong. John Hardwood isn't an illustration of anything.

Might as well get an asshole like Lou Dobbs to demonstrate how progressives are being maligned.

[Armstead]

15. You are correct that he is not a very credible person -- But you could have made that point ....

without your snide little reference to "drumming up pity."


We're not your enemy, ya know. We want the same things -- just differ on how it should be achieved.

[madfloridian]

18. I edited Harwood out so as not to confuse the issue. Yes, we are the enemy.

At least it seems that way.

I would rather find it out now than later.

[madfloridian]

12. Thanks for that post. It reeks of the scorn I mentioned.

[ProSense]

16. Oh brother.

The problem is that you think somehow Harwood distinguishes one progressive from another.

[madfloridian]

17. Let me take Harwood out of the picture since you are fixated

on him.

[ProSense]

21. OK, what scorn?

A lot of people are throwing accusation around: calling others shill and the rest

So what scorn are you referring to?

From the OP:

It has become almost unbearable to read the gloating posts...The scorn shows a lack of acceptance of varying views...

Really? Sounds like you are unhappy that all the posts don't share your views. Want happiness: visit the front page, lots of varying views (criticism of Obama) there.

[snagglepuss]

5. Well in this case a good offense is the only defense. nt

[mirrera]

11. K&R

[Larkspur]

14. Did anyone notice how quickly the White House changed its tune on Dean

Instead of calling him "insane" or "irrational", WH spokespeople, like David Axelrod, started saying "I respect Howard Dean but disagree with him..."

Axelrod was smacked by progressive bloggers Thursday night in a hastily formed meeting when one asked why Axelrod didn't call Sen. Nelson "insane" for trying to gut the senate hcr bill again.

I also think that Dean's public critique of the senate bill help put a few more changes in it. The bill is nothing to celebrate. Most won't be seeing "benefits" til 2013 or 2014.

[Blasphemer]

19. Scorn is the right word. Our existence undermines the illusion they are determined to create nt

[totodeinhere]

20. K&R

[girl gone mad]

22. Just read a Daily Kos diary linked to by someone here..

so full of hate and vitriol toward Jane Hamsher, much of it directed at the fact that she earns an income from blogging, which is apparently now a cardinal sin for those on the left.

It does give one a glimpse behind the veil.

[glitch]

29. It's been posted several times, with an apparent sense of triumph

despite the blatant "kill the messenger" logical fallacy.

[Donnachaidh]

23. the level of vehemence towards anyone disagreeing is downright freeperish

It's quite stunning to see just how many blue jackboots are patrolling this site and others, just to keep dissenters from speaking their minds.

[Blasphemer]

32. Stunning and frightening... nt

[glitch]

24. This is an easy one MF

The same ideology that consumed the Republicans has targeted Democrats.

Shouting down (or scorning) until capitulation is the tried and true (and really only) method, there is no convincing based on self-interest or reason, because they don't exist, there is only purchase, blackmail or intimidation.

Nobody would sacrifice democracy for fascism for reason, only force. And scorn is a force that many succomb to.

FWIW the only hope to salvaging HCR at this point lays in conference, it won't happen in the Senate so I can see why Dean has focused on that. I don't think it will work in conference, but it truly is THE only hope for someone who wants to remain hopeful.

[HughMoran]

26. Last week when anybody who tried to say anything positive was smashed face first into the ground???

ARE YOU KIDDING ME?

LAST WEEK WHEN ANYBODY WHO TRIED TO GIVE THE BENEFIT OF THE DOUBT TO OBAMA WERE THINKING OF LEAVING DU BECAUSE IT WAS ALL HATE ALL THE TIME???

TRY SEEING THINGS FROM ANOTHER'S PERSPECTIVE FOR A CHANGE!!

Yes, I am using all caps because I am SCREAMING here!!

[madfloridian]

27. Then quit showing scorn toward those of us who care about the party.

I don't do the things you say.

[Goldstein1984]

28. Thanks, madfloridian.

Well written.

Party is a secondary concern.

If Democrats from the Right of the party continue with the venom aimed at the Left, they will learn that in 2010 and 2012.

Rec

[necso]

30. Ponder, madfloridian,

that you seem to be one of those members who have a "following" of other members that delight in unreccing all your threads (a really, really bad idea to display "less-than-zero") and otherwise attacking you. And ponder that many former members have effectively been driven from this board, one after another; one way or the other.

Indeed, a cynic might think that there's a concerted effort to silence you -- and, more generally, to silence (or beat down) those who think that there are alternative-ways to go about governance and policy.

Be careful, calm; use ignore.

[mzmolly]

31. Those who are being scorned are those who support

the beginning of reform MF. One look at the greatest page will prove my point.

[madfloridian]

34. Well, I have often wavered back and forth..

between moderate, more to the left...definitely pro party because it would do harm not to be that way I though..but now I am to the point that I have certain things I will no longer compromise on.

[mzmolly]

35. I'm thankful to those who continue to fight.

As Kos said on Countdown tonight, we can revisit the bill once it passes and find what's positive. However, we should fight like hell for a more progressive bill in the mean time.

[madfloridian]

33. Speaking of ridiculing Dean for changing rhetoric as the bill changed...

remember the words of Obama in 2008 during the campaign.

"My health care plan will overhaul the current health care system by guaranteeing coverage for every American through partnerships among employers, private health plans, the federal government, and the states. The plan both builds on and improves our current insurance system, which most Americans continue to rely upon, and leaves Medicare intact for older and disabled Americans. Under my plan, Americans will be able to maintain their current coverage if they choose to, and will see the quality of their health care improve and their costs go down. My plan also addresses the large gaps in coverage that leave 47 million Americans uninsured. Specifically, my plan will: (1) establish a new public insurance program, available to Americans who neither qualify for Medicaid or SCHIP nor have access to insurance through their employers, as well as to small businesses that want to offer insurance to their employees; (2) create a National Health Insurance Exchange to help Americans and businesses that want to purchase private health insurance directly; (3) require all employers to contribute towards health coverage for their employees or towards the cost of the public plan ; (4) mandate all children have health care coverage; (5) expand eligibility for the Medicaid and SCHIP programs; and (6) allow flexibility for state health reform plans."

http://www.yourcandidatesyourhealth.org/profile.php?c_id=MjU1MjQx

And today?

"The public option, he said, "is an area that has just become symbolic of a lot of ideological fights." But, Obama added: "As a practical matter, this is not the most important aspect of this bill — the House bill or the Senate bill."

Only "a few million people" who buy into the insurance exchange set up in the bill would have benefited from the public option, he said.

"So it wasn’t like suddenly everybody would just go out there and buy a government-run plan," Obama said. "Most people will still get health insurance from their employers."

http://www.politico.com/politico44/perm/1209/obama_watched_the_vote_3dac2d12-13ff-416b-9394-16cf24e21c02.html

[madfloridian]

36. I just put the video up in DU video.

Watch, read what I posted, and see the spin for what it is.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x416005