One silver lining -- I disagree witrh Bernie on HCR-- But he is expanding the power of Progressives

[Armstead]

I think this health care "reform" is a debacle, and part of me wants people like Bernie to do a reverse Lieberman and use the power of the veto to force them to do it better. Part of me is disappointed that he is giving up and supporting this particular bill.

This whole healthcare debacle has exposed how corrupted and weak the Democratic Party has become in terms of actually siding with PEOPLE against Corporate Interests and the Conservative elites.

But trying to find silver linings, I think one good thing will come out of this. The Good Junior Senator from Vermont has in his first term done something VERY important.

Bernie has placed the REAL liberal progressive agenda right out there on the table for all to see. He is moving it from the perception of being "fringe left" to closer to becoming a mainstream position.

Sanders has become a Senator that is respected (and in some ways feared) by his colleagues and the media. And, by extension, he is at least placing the framework of a REAL difference in political and policy choices on the table for all to see.

That is largely a tribute to him, and his political skills. Bernie is a "leftist ideologue" in the best sense of that word. But Bernie is also a smart "pragmatic" politician who knows how to play hardball and wheel and deal. He is also a fundamentally decent guy, whose truly progressive and REALISTIC positions actually resonate with people when he actually gets a chance to speak.


He also makes it clear that real liberalism and progressive populism is not some scary bogeyman. If you really analyze his positions, he is basically what used to be called mainstream liberal Democrat. It is sad that the Democratic Party has helped to muddle the nation's political calculus so much that this is considered "far left" today.

By doing so he is -- at least -- getting discussion of things like truly universal single-payer healthcare placed on the table. He is using his position as Senator -- and an independent whose support for a party is not guaranteed -- to get a New Voice to the table. (The voice is not new, but people who speak it have been ignored and dissed by the media and the Democratic party for too long.)

Bernie is pointedly NOT a member of the Democratic Party. He recognizes that party politics is a joke these days, and that the Democratic Party has become fundamentally corrupt. But he is a Democrat by default, because they are at least closer to the "good" than the Dark Side GOP.

By personally making himself a "player" in the system, he is by extension taking a major step that is paving the way for all of the other REAL GOOD Progressive Democrats in Congress and elsewhere to get heard. Hew is helping to create a counterbalance to the ConservaDems and the Corporate DLC types.

It didn't make a difference in the results this time. But at least Bernie has helped to make it possible for liberal progressives and the Democratic Wing of the Democratic Party to eventually successfully push harder and open up the system.

[ClassWarrior]

1. I'm glad Bernie's there too.

K&R

NGU.

[deutsey]

2. I don't live in Vermont and have never been there,

but I consider Sanders to be my Senator.

:thumbsup:

[Armstead]

10. Same for me -- though I am a neighbor of VT.

So he's sort of my senator once-removed by a few miles

[Ozymanithrax]

3. Reverse Lieberman and you have 59 votes...59 votes and the bill is fillibustered...

Now, if the bill is filibustered, there is no bill of any kind.

Want a better bill, so do I. But you must first find 60 votes to overturn a Republican filibuster, because they want the status quo and are not afraid to vote no for it.

Bernie Sanders realizes that the bill that passed was the best they could get, and keeping the status quo was unacceptable to his progressive ideals. He voted to provide help for people in need and a foundation to improve upon.

To push through more progressive legislation, you would need, at minimum, about five more really progressive Senators. We will have to see if we can actually get anyone like that to run, and once running if they can win.

What we can do is look for ways to improve this bill once it is signed. We ae not in a position where small pieces of legislation and ammendments to other bills can really improve what we have.

[Armstead]

4. Please reread my post

I grudgingly admit that may be correct. I am trying to look at the bigger picture though, so that eventually the Democratic party might actually represent real people again.

[AuntPatsy]

5. As long as that one foot stands firmly inside the doorway it will be impossible

for those on the other side to lock everyone out forever...and with time, and with the help of others, the door can be pushed open all the way..I agree with you, I am not giving up hope that we can get our party back..

[bvar22]

6. I wish Bernie would start his own Party.

:patriot:

[Armstead]

7. Or become a Democrat and do some serious housecleaning

A tall order I realize, but if anyone could do that he could.

[freddie mertz]

8. I think in some ways, Bernie ending up failing us.

He got a few things added, then decided to vote for it while expressing his disgust for most of it.

I thought it was sad.

[Armstead]

9. This was sad -- B ut in the bigger picture I actually gtghink it will be helpful

Bernie has basically the same positions and goals as Dennis Kucinich.

But Kucinich has pissed off too many people with his rigidity. As a result he makes it easier to get demonized and marginalized.

By not making a futile symbolic gesture this time, (although he did make an important gesture by introducing a truly universal single payer amendment) I think Bernie is making it easier to be taken seriously in the future.

[freddie mertz]

13. He seemed exhausted, and I know I am too, and sick of it.

Maybe that is the Obama strategy, wear us down and wait till the rage declines into despair and defeatism.

[Armstead]

14. But that's why I like bernie -- He is the Energizer Bunny. They knock him down and he gets up again

This is not the first long hard fight Bernie has been involved in. He's been in Congress throughout the Clinton Sell Out years and the Democrat Capitulation to Bush years.

He, along with other progressives, just keep getting knocked down but they get up again and (as in the old commercial) just "keep going and going and going."

And the part of me that tries to remain hopeful looks at the power progressives have today compared to the 90's and much of the 00's and I do think that inch-by-inch people like Bernie are pushing the ball forward.

[freddie mertz]

15. Maybe. This was a moment he could have made a difference.

But he and the others who said or suggested they would not vote for the non-public option bill all sat on their hands, every last one of them.

Which gave all the leverage to Joe and Ben.

I understand the ethics, but I decry the policy result.

[Armstead]

16. So do I -- But I think they decided there would be no real win and to cut their losses

Tghe only major difference I have is the timing. I would have preferred that the liberals and progressives in the House and Senate kept pushing longer. But I guess aftwer a year of constant fighting and negotiating, Bernie and other people I respect saw the handwriting on the wall.

[freddie mertz]

17. Maybe if they had even an inkling of presidential support....

But we all know now that they didn't.

We were screwed from the start.

[Armstead]

18. I surely agree with you there 100 percent

[HughMoran]

11. White picket fence

.

[Armstead]

12. That's certainly an enigmatic statement