We do not hate Obama we are profoundly disappointed with him

[joeprogressive]

By questioning our motives you question us at your own electoral peril. Not a threat but simply reality regarding the eroding Liberal base. This is not faux outrage as some have suggested. Wake up people and look at the polls. Only 32% of Americans support this bill. It is political suicide. More importantly it is a shitty bill considering that it does not contain costs, mandates the impossible and is a terrible construct for future reform.

Those of us that are real Liberals are the ones that are mad. We are questioning YOU by supporting a bill supported by insurance companies and Lieberman and any Democrat that was paid off enough. We question YOU, because you are ready to settle just so the president can sign something. At what point would you let this bill get watered down until you said it sucked. Weak Democrats are bringing this party down. The party that settles. The party that never fights back whether it is for Kerry in '04, standing up to Pelosi for taking impeachment off the table, saying there weren't enough votes to end Iraq.......enough! The current crop isn't getting it done. I have heard that the president doesn't have the power to get a senator to vote a certain way. What an insult to LBJ!

By the logic of many here, the proper way for labor to fight management would be to say, "oh management gave us a 10 cent an hour raise so we should be happy and take it instead of striking because it is better than what we had yesterday and we can always keep fighting for change later" By taking their compromise, you are showing your weakness and they will continue to abuse their power over you! Some change is NOT incremental. Some change must be rammed down the throats of the oppressor. We had the US mandate after the election to get real reform done, the US support of the public option, 75% support from physicians for the public option, every major nursing organization supported the public option, the AMA, AAFP and AARP all supported the public option but the president couldn't get it done. Complete and utter failure!!!



I will put my past support of Obama against anyone's.

I was with him when everyone was still in the primary. Not just I like him, he was already receiving all of my contributions.

I gave a lot of money to him. More than I have ever given to a candidate.

I defended him on these boards against HRC posters (now I wish she had been elected because she would have fought for us).

I lost a few friends over my strong support for Obama and alienated family.

I took my whole family to the primary caucus and my son was so proud when I was selected as a delegate.

I held three Obama parties; one to raise money, one on election night and a post election celebration.

I had a large Obama picture on my office desk despite objections from my boss.

I bought Obama memorabilia and spent many nights explaining to my son why Obama was a such great man.

Do I need to go on. Are there bigger supporters out there......sure but to say I never supported him or I am a plant etc. is so ignorant to what is going on. It would have taken a lot for my support to waiver and it has. You need to listen to us because '10 and '12 are riding on our support. It doesn't matter if our anger is msplaced or not. A vote is a vote and I will not vote for a president that doesn't fight for me. Which means I am likely sitting at home on election day.


You people that doubt the sincerity of our frustration do so at your own peril. We are real progressives that didn't expect miracles but expected real change. We are not the fringe we are the millions of apathetic votes that will make you reconsider why you sold out. Many of us believe we must lose a few in order for real progressives to get elected in the future. What would it really hurt on the policy front? We would still be immersed in a couple of wars and health insurance companies would continue to dictate health policy. That was happening anyway under Obama. So go ahead and tell us to get the hell out of the Democratic Party. We don't care, we have already lost when we sell our principles out for a short sided political victory. Let me know when health care stocks start tanking and I will know that something with meat was inserted into the bill.

When a real Democratic Party reemerges in 10 years or so maybe we will extend a hand out to you, the people that really destroyed the party in the first place.

[NJmaverick]

1. When posts comparing HCR to gang rape become recced and popular threads

HATE is the accurate term and denial is sort of pointless.

[joeprogressive]

3. Many will take their passion to extreme levels but it doesn't

diminish the fact that they are passionate.

[jefferson_dem]

7. So "passionate" criticism of the Democratic President and this set of Democratic-led reforms

is understandable but "passionate" defenses of them is not. I'm sorry but you're reasoning is flawed.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

10. Reason never factored into the equation. (nt)

[polpilot]

29. Enabling Obama to forgo his principles is not helpful. Pointing this out is not 'hate'.

[HughMoran]

45. How does one "enable" Obama to forego - hey, he hasn't forgone his principals!!!

You're argument is a crock.

[ChiciB1]

147. PRINCIPALS.... Couldn't Help Myself, I Have OCD! Plus I Disagree With The Poster! n/t

[joeprogressive]

17. If you think that the people that defended Bush to the very end

were right then have fun living by that logic.

[HughMoran]

38. So Obama supporters = Bush supporters

Yes, we get what you're saying.

:eyes:

[joeprogressive]

116. Think about it; many of the well reasoned conservatives

turned on Bush. It was the hard core wing nuts that still defended him until the end. I have not completely jumped from the ship but I am not going to be blinded by party loyalty on this one and on many levels the progressives have already been betrayed. I will see what happens with this legislation but take it from someone who is an expert in the field, this probably will not work and it may make things worse. If it turns out to be the Democrat's Iraq, will you still be on here defending Obama and the Democrats?

[cliffordu]

127. Yep - and what you just responded to is PRECISELY

the reason I could give a shit if that kind of "activist" stays or goes or blows it out their asses.


Sorry. I hate the holidays.

[NJmaverick]

11. passionate is good, when it causes one to lose all sense of perspective

it becomes destructive and is usually referred to as hate

[ShortnFiery]

49. Look in the mirror? You've lost that precious OBJECTIVITY as much, if not more, than us liberals.

[uponit7771]

15. AMEN!!!!

[HughMoran]

39. Hate is often confused with 'passion' here lately

I'm not buying the lame "at your peril" arguments.

With friends like this, who needs enemies.

Do we ever link to Free Republic any more? No? Why? Oh, because we can find even more ridiculous hate-filled rhetoric right here on DU - Dogmatic Uggh!

[NJmaverick]

41. Sad but true

[niceypoo]

55. Labeling it hate IS denial

The whole rec and unrec thing is a tit for tat game. To base any stance on 'rec, unrec,' is to be a shallow drama queen.

[ClassWarrior]

76. How many posts? How many recs? What's your definition of "popular?"

I've read posts by you that point to one or two inappropriate comments and try to use them to smear entire groups of people. What's the purpose of that? To divide us? If not, please link to these supposed "gang rape" posts, and prove me wrong...

NGU.

[ClassWarrior]

89. .

[ClassWarrior]

92. .

[ClassWarrior]

95. .

[ClassWarrior]

106. .

[ellie]

2. Yea, ok.

[pocoloco]

4. "the people that really destroyed the party"

will end up choking on all their dry powder.

[ShortnFiery]

51. Yes, the ENTIRE PARTY will lose if it disavows the VALUES of our base.

And when the Democrats are out of power for say, A GENERATION, I want the Corporate Dems to all to LOOK IN THE MIRROR = because they have disowned the liberal base.

We owe you NOTHING now that you've sold your SOULS to the Corporations.

Like "the phoenix" I hope and pray that our beloved PARTY will arise from the ashes, LIBERAL and strong for the platform of *SOCIAL JUSTICE* not the present goal of *corporate welfare* while duping the populace.

[bvar22]

75. They won't.

They will continue to BLAME those who stand on principle.
Just like they made Nader into some SUPERMAN who single handedly destroyed the entire Democratic Party in 2000, instead of looking in the mirror and addressing the faults of a Centrist Democratic Party sliding to the Corporate Right and leaving a vacuum om The Left.

"Centrism"...because it is so EASY!
You don't have to STAND for ANYTHING,
AND get to insult those who DO!
:party:

Question for the Centrists:
If you don't STAND for ANYTHING, how do you measure "Progress"?

[billh58]

98. Therein lies the question:

who, exactly, do you include in your definition of the Democratic "base?" It seems that you, and other self-styled "Progressives" presume much, but are short of definitive facts. Being very vocal and argumentative does not a "base" make. To the contrary, it only makes self-righteous and intransigent people less credible than more reasonable Americans who accept majority rule, but keep trying to improve our collective lot.

Majority rule and representative government, particularly as practiced in American politics, has always left the door open for "deal making" and smoky backroom "negotiations." Majority rule also takes into consideration the concept of the greatest good, for the greatest number (as determined by a 50% plus one majority vote). The beauty of our Constitutional political system is that it allows for continual change. The infuriating reality of our social system, is that it resists change until each succeeding generation gradually embraces it (see the Labor and Civil Rights movements).

So far, and after only eight generations of mostly Liberal Americans, we haven't done too bad as a nation, and the prospects for future generations of Americans are even brighter.

[monmouth]

5. Jeebus H.! More drama here than Hollywood....n/t

[Armstead]

6. Why do yuou hate Obama? Just because he didn't give you a pony?

Be realistic. Be pragmatic. Obama has no power to change anything, but he is a great leader.

You are with the teabaggers with an irrational hatred of Obama. Why don't you just post this on Free Republic?


:sarcasm:


.....(I jusr figured I'd spare some people from the effort of typing.)

[babylonsister]

14. This isn't sarcasm...how many more on this board like this?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=7303823&mesg_id=7303857

[jefferson_dem]

16. Unbelievable.

Almost.

[Armstead]

20. That linbked post doesn't seem to have much to do with this thread

[joeprogressive]

25. Actually I think it does because it proves my point.

I do agree that we should be mobilizing not cowering in the corner which is what we did by going along with this crappy bill. However, we need leadership. If Obama and our elected officials won't fight with us,who will. The teabaggers had their elected officials on their side. Big difference.

[joeprogressive]

21. You are asking the wrong question.

Thousands hate my post and thousands love it. The point is that Obama and weak Dems have split the party. Can you honestly say that if we would have passed HCR with a strong public option there would be such a split? There would have been mass celebrations here with a small minority of dissenters and those would have been the single payer or nothing crowd that has probably already left the Democratic Party.

[mkultra]

37. that guy, like one up from you, is one of the Obama bashers

in the name of true reform and progress they call for no progress unless its perfect. Just like the healthcare forum screamers. They are paid industry disruptors.

[Armstead]

40. I wish....I could use the money

But it's bizarre that you perceive that opposing an industry is supporting an industry.

Oh well.

[niceypoo]

60. Being unsatisfied with the healthcare bill makes one an 'Obama basher?'

...and all those who are not satisfied with the present bill will only be satisfied with perfection, nothing less? Paid industry disruptors running amok? Your views on everything seem a tad....extreme.

[snagglepuss]

77. What utter crap. What industry do you refer to? Is it the insurance industry

that is going to get millions of new customers in return for worthless crap and no cost controls?

[Forkboy]

114. Yes, no better way to support an industry than to fight it.

:crazy:

[Cha]

103. "Stop bashing Teabaggers"..I'll freakin' call them

what they are..stupid ignorant racist assholes who are just waiting for jane hamsher to show up and teach 'em how it's done.

[joeprogressive]

19. You had me going until my peripheral vision caught the dripping red letters

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

8. No, you definitely hate Obama.

You've been posting bullshit every day. Don't give me that crap. I might buy that story for some around here, but not you.

[jefferson_dem]

13. I find this latest post - the supposed point of clarification on "Obama hate" - curious.

It comes off as a flimsy flame-baity effort to re-open the same arguments that have been hashed over and over and over.

[Armstead]

22. Thats kinda where we're at on all sides of it

The talking points on all sides have been set in stone.

People have hardened in fixed positions. People who ultimately have the same goals are madder at each other than should be the case because we don't agree on strategy. Issues have been sublimited to personalities, both among ourselves and in our view of national figures.

Not much constructive real debate over things like whether the bill should have been more oriented to single payer or not, mandates, etc. Those are secondary to whether "I'm right and you're wrong. There's no middle ground."

>>>In other words, business as usual for DU.

Next month people will be doing the same thing over climate change or whetever else comes along.

(And yes, I'm guilty of it too.)

[jefferson_dem]

24. I agree with everything you said.

:hi:

[Armstead]

35. Agreement on something? Hey, Merry X mas

Maybe the Holidays will help cool things down a little bit here.



:)

[jefferson_dem]

47. I hope so.

I'll be thrilled when this circular firing squad runs out of bullets.

Happy Holidays to You Too!

[AuntPatsy]

105. do you think that what his going on in du is exactly what went on behind closed doors

when this bill begans it's conception?

[joeprogressive]

28. Show me one post where I state anything other than disappointment

in the leadership of our president. Then go look at the hundreds of pro-Obama posts by me during the election. Yeah, you're right I secretly feigned Obama support for the past two years so I could have some credibility when I cam back to bash him. I remember bithers using that logic with Obama and the Hawaii newspapers. You are so smart to have figured that all out on your own.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

44. Your posts show pretty much that you disliked Hillary more than you disliked Obama.

And hated McCain more than both. Which I'm sure was a very common thread for most greens/socialists/purist Democrats. And so far as "credibility", I'm under no illusions that it's ever necessary. I just think your agenda was different all along.

[joeprogressive]

99. Then you are dumber than I thought. Sorry but you have me

misread completely other than the analysis that I hate McCain.

[snagglepuss]

79. Who exactly do you buy it from? Link to a poster critical of Obama you find

acceptable.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

96. Against the rules.

Nice try though.

[snagglepuss]

110. What rule do you refer to?

[BeyondGeography]

9. Your post reeks of vanity and illusion

[polpilot]

33. 'Magic' interpretation!!

[Mimosa]

12. Excellent! K&R

My best buddy is an MD and a member of one of the organisations you cited. he's conservative, sort of, but he and his colleagues very much supported public option and contacted their congress reps! Congress and the Senate ignored the doctors and did the bidding of the rapacious HC insurance corps!

From the OP:

"By the logic of many here, the proper way for labor to fight management would be to say, "oh management gave us a 10 cent an hour raise so we should be happy and take it instead of striking because it is better than what we had yesterday and we can always keep fighting for change later" By taking their compromise, you are showing your weakness and they will continue to abuse their power over you! Some change is NOT incremental. Some change must be rammed down the throats of the oppressor. We had the US mandate after the election to get real reform done, the US support of the public option, 75% support from physicians for the public option, every major nursing organization supported the public option, the AMA, AAFP and AARP all supported the public option but the president couldn't get it done. Complete and utter failure!!!"

[OneGrassRoot]

18. And this post is why I can't even read GD or GD:P any more...

It's just two groups of people sniping (and much worse) at one another for the most part.

I'm not critiquing the content of the OP; in truth, I didn't even read it in its entirety.

I saw it as more of the "us versus them" approach that has taken over internally at DU. I don't see what anyone is accomplishing with this any longer. I can see venting and ranting and being pissed off, but at some point it needs to take a constructive turn. Instead, it keeps spiraling downward and that is what is left: two groups fighting one another, repeatedly trying to prove their point and show they're right, instead of accomplishing something meaningful.

I also think there are two paid groups who have infiltrated here -- operatives from both sides of the Obama issue, who stoke the fires of anger and resentment and frustration, doing what M$M has accomplished so well "out there" -- distraction.

The art of distraction has taken over at DU.

Wishing everyone a blessed holiday season. Though I fully recognize there is a lot of suffering in the world -- and all around us personally -- I hope everyone can find a glimmer of hope in their personal universe and build upon that to create a better world, one gesture, one day at a time.

:)



edit for typo

[Arkansas Granny]

46. It's the "haters" vs. the "cheerleaders" just about anytime you check in here, nowadays.

There's very little of substance being discussed and little reason to reply to posts.

[CTLawGuy]

23. 86%

of liberal Democrats support Obama. What eroding liberal base are you speaking about?

[joeprogressive]

27. If it was 92% after the election, that is enough erosion to lose the next one

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

32. It was 89% on election day.

Dropping to 86% would be a 1.17% overall difference. And since most of that would come from blue states, it would be completely irrelevant.

http://abcnews.go.com/PollingUnit/ExitPolls/

[ShortnFiery]

53. These *polls* are BUNK that are "manufactured" by the Corporate Media.

I don't believe anything that's published by the M$M. Their desires are to ONLY please their corporate masters on Wall Street and within the MIC.

Follow the MONEY to know where all the lies and disinformation stems from: M$M CORPORATION CENTRAL.

[joeprogressive]

100. and the majority of Americans and congress supported invading Iraq

I vote on principle and sometimes I will go against principle if the long term effect will be one that aligns with my beliefs. This bill does not accomplish either for me.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

102. So 30 million uninsured Americans receiving care is not one that aligns with your beliefs?

How progressive.

[Raineyb]

118. It would be helpful if you'd learn the difference between having health insurance

and receiving care. One does not equal the other. Or is the fact that most bankruptcies occur due to medical expenses to people who HAD health insurance mean nothing?

Insurance with co-pays or deductibles so high that you can't afford to see a doctor is worse than nothing. But I guess that would interrupt your mindless cheering for anything rammed down your throat with a D after it.

[impik]

138. You're right.

We know that "progressives" are going to vote for Palin 2012, as they're now best friends with her people.

[lamp_shade]

26. Oh cry me a river.

[joeprogressive]

31. We'll all be crying after mid-terms and in '12

But at least I won't be a complete corporate supporting whore.

[CBR]

30. Good grief. I do not agree with all of Obama's

decisions either (i.e. Afghanistan) but when you have people defending teabaggers, I will question motives.

[lamp_shade]

34. Well said.

[impik]

36. Who is "we"?

[lamp_shade]

42. Hmmmm.. I hope OP answers your question. I wonder too.

[Kahuna]

43. Some actually DO hate him and use the most disgusting language..that

can only be rivaled on FR, when discussing him.

[snagglepuss]

86. Prove that accusation. Many long-time DUers who are now critical of

Obama were once his supporters and you can verify that statement with searches, just pull up old posts. If those critical of Obama are "haters" they will definitely have left a trail so prove your accustation.

[Kahuna]

115. Are you BLIND???? The proof is on DU and the fact that is fast becoming

a hate site against Obama that rivils FR. He is not just derided, but called names routinely. Everyday there are posts about who to run against him in 2012.

[snagglepuss]

117. Many DUers are livid with Obama because he has lied and sold out

to vested interests. You say they're haters. My point is that many of the DUers who are angry and crtical were ardent supporters of Obama, if they hate him now its for what has done or not done.

If people sound as angry as Freepers it's because of his betraying those who believed him. This is not conjecture. It's easy to pull up old posts and see for yourself who some of his harshest critics were some of his most ardent supporters.

[HopeOverFear]

121. I've pulled up many old posts. The same people who didn't like Obama back then

Still don't like him now. So don't even try it.

[snagglepuss]

123. Examples please. Everyone knows that emotions ran high during the primaries.

That I don't dispute however when Obama was elected everyone was buoyed and I remember endless posts of people who hadn't been supporters but were thrilled he was elected and more importantly were hopeful.

[HopeOverFear]

131. you just answered your own question.

I remember endless posts of people who hadn't been supporters

If they "hadn't been" then...they still aren't NOW. Being on an emotional high during the election doesn't mean shit. They don't understand how to stick around after the emotional high goes away. That's what it's all about.

[snagglepuss]

134. Everyone was at the very least willing to give him the benefit of doubt

and he blew it.

[HopeOverFear]

135. "Everyone"? Talk about an overblown exaggeration.

Obama has not blown it, and still has many people in his corner.

[snagglepuss]

136. Go back to election day and find someone raining on the parade.

What Obama has blown is his appeal to many progressives and independents.

[HopeOverFear]

140. I won't find any because they didn't dare post that day. They knew better.

Obama may have blown it for you and the rest of the extreme left, but not for the rest of us who are in the middle.

[ShortnFiery]

48. Yes, *profoundly disappointed* with President Obama's actions just about covers it.

:( :thumbsdown:

[TexasObserver]

50. Recommend

[LastNaturalist]

52. I'm not disappointed in him.

[ShortnFiery]

54. Then kindly "pass the bong" of whatever you're smoking ... WE ALL NEED IT?

I WISH that I could alter my conscious ENOUGH to believe the UN-BELIEVABLE.

I WISH that I could believe in President Obama like I did on his inauguration day.

I CAN NOT because "the facts" of his actions and inactions SPEAK FOR THEMSELVES.

I'd have to be completely deluded to believe that President Obama gives a tinker's damn about the Average Hard Working, wage-slave American.

[LastNaturalist]

58. I'm not a terminal pessimist like most progressives.

What else can I say? He has not been President for even a year, and he has been EXCEPTIONAL!!

[phleshdef]

59. Terminal pessimists. I like it and I totally agree. Why do so many of us have to be so damn emo?

[LastNaturalist]

66. I know, friend! Remember FDR and Truman? Happy warriors liberals!

Always optimistic, during one of the world's darkest times.

[ShortnFiery]

69. Truman was sort of racist ... but that's OK, you were on a roll.

:eyes:

[LastNaturalist]

71. No he was not. And way to stay on topic!

[ShortnFiery]

73. Many would disagree. Oh I'm sorry. I forgot that Presidents are infallible if they

have "a D" behind their names. :eyes:

[LastNaturalist]

83. This is "Democratic" Underground right?

Maybe you'd be more happy at a site that touted all of the accomplishments of those Presidents from the Green Party!

B-)

[ShortnFiery]

87. Yes, but we should CEASE when we reach the need for SAINTHOOD. eom

[ShortnFiery]

62. "MOST progressives" is that an equivalent term to "THOSE people?"

:eyes:

[LastNaturalist]

67. You make no sense.

[ShortnFiery]

72. Of course I do. You have NEAT little categories. Really, those of you who support President Obama

right now and are VERY PROUD of him are not all that much different than the folks who backed George W. Bush.

Anyone = "those people" = "haters" = Are to be marginalized by name calling and questions regarding their sanity and/or intelligence and/or state of mind.

Really, if I had not excelled in Clinical Psychology, I would not be able to FULLY APPRECIATE your efforts.

Goebbels was "a slag" compared to you and CNN is the new FOX for this Administration. :evilgrin:

[LastNaturalist]

81. Better than you, and the "bitch, bitch, bitching" that you do in every post!

I feel sorry for you though. You must wake up hating the world.

[ShortnFiery]

88. That's the point. You willfully deceive yourself, IMO, because the conflict is uncomfortable to you

Honestly, I'd rather be conflicted than live, IMO, in a delusion.

When you FINALLY wake-up to the fact that you are being USED and the middle class is completely GUTTED, don't you dare blame "the liberal democrats" who told you so.

You've been warned SO look in the mirror when you're looking for someone to blame for Health Care becoming the next Debtors' Prison next to Credit Cards. :(

[lamp_shade]

57. .

Good place to hang out: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=post&forum=433&topic_id=89006&mesg_id=89006

[uponit7771]

56. In many areas Obama has exceeded my expectations...

[niceypoo]

61. He has met my expectations in every area

except health care. I am puzzled by his unwillingness to draw a line in the sand and fight on this issue.

[ShortnFiery]

64. So you like the fact that we send Air-strikes all over the ME to kill innocents along with

suspected "terrorists" (anyone who the ruling party of that country doesn't like and/or considers a political threat)?

You also like the fact that AMERICANS are LESS SAFE because our combat troops continue to occupy two ME nations?

If ... or more sadly and likely WHEN we are hit again from a Terrorist Strike, YOU LIKE the fact that President OBAMA chooses to keep us LESS SAFE by continuing to OCCUPY these countries?

The above is NOTHING to be proud of. :(

[niceypoo]

74. You or I dont have to deal with the reality of the ME

We can just kick back and bitch about it, he doesnt have that luxury. He is doing what he promised, which was to withdraw from Iraq and concentrate on Afghanistan. I dont really like it, but I understand why he is doing it.

[ShortnFiery]

80. Wanna BET?!? I see the wounded at Bethesda and Walter Reed and I have relatives

assigned over to the ME arena.

Don't even begin to tell me that President Obama's WARMONGERING doesn't affect me.

self-delete ...

Yes, it damn well is ALL OF OUR BEST INTERESTS AS AMERICANS

Every day our combat troops OCCUPY those two countries, AMERICANS are less safe, both at home and abroad.

[niceypoo]

90. I dont live in Maryland

I live in Washington state. I do have many, many close friends in the military, but you wouldn't know this because you know absolutely nothing about me or my life.

You have chosen to attack me personally based on wild assumptions, rather than argue a position.

Person A takes stance X
Person B attacks person A
Therefore X is false

'The fallacy of ad hominim'

I suggest you hit the reset button and start over.

[ShortnFiery]

91. Then, it effects YOU too. MY POINT: We all have a say in stopping the needless KILLING and DYING.

This is NO time to be complacent.

No, I don't know you but I have a right to claim that I HAVE AN INTEREST in stopping these two IMMORAL and ILLEGAL Occupations.

Don't think for one moment that having our Combat Troops in these two ME countrise is keeping Americans safer. It is NOT.

[ShortnFiery]

93. p.s.

I edited out QUESTIONS to you. Your point is well taken - I apologize for that because I'm very emotionally involved in helping to end these horrific occupations. :blush:

[cali]

63. "We:"? Who appointed you to speak for any group?

oh you did? well fuck that, you don't speak for anyone but yourself. Using "we" is a cowardly thing to hide behind.

[hulka38]

130. That statement speaks for me rings true for many here being accused of hating Obama.

It's a tactic used to avoid debating the merits of the issue. It's also an attempt to dismiss a group of people by saying their political views are driven by emotion and personality. If anything that's a projection. Good post - it needed to be said.

[billh58]

65. Who are these

people who make up the "we" that you and other Progressives keep threatening mainstream Middle American Democrats with? Would that be you, and maybe another few million Americans who make up the 3% who vote for third-Party candidates and spoilers? Do you really believe that you speak for the majority?

Your threats to "primary" a Democratic candidate's ass didn't work in previous Primary Elections, so what makes you believe that they will work in 2012?

[mcablue]

68. Wrong.If you don't love him you hate him

And that's that.

[bvar22]

84. WTF?

I "HOPE" you forgot the Sarcasm thingie.

If not, seek help.

Unfortunately, your reduction IS representative of several DU posters this morning.
I neither LOVE nor HATE any politician.

However, I DESPISE the political dogma of "Centrism" and "Triangulation".
Centrists DEMAND Purity based on Political Party, NOT Principles or Ideals.

[snagglepuss]

70. "The party that never fights back" . Spot on. A phenomenal post.

One great line after the next.


"I have heard that the president doesn't have the power to get a senator to vote a certain way. What an insult to LBJ!"



"You people that doubt the sincerity of our frustration do so at your own peril."



"Some change is NOT incremental. Some change must be rammed down the throats of the oppressor."




:kick:

[Aramchek]

78. nice try, but we all know what's going on here

[ShortnFiery]

85. Yes, you and the other "Ministry of Truthers" here constantly tell us what to believe.

But damn! Some of us will not OBEY. For shame. :evilgrin:

[Blasphemer]

97. Yes, it's is crystal clear that there is an almost obsessive desire to have everyone tow the line

I've read many posts excusing it away and glorifying it even in the name of "pragmatism", "realism" and wanting to "inform" the uninformed masses but it is pretty clear that a good portion if it is orchestrated. I do believe there is genuine fear at the root of it all, from the top all the way down. They have a lot invested in getting us all on board.

[Starry Messenger]

82. Excellent post.

Many people on DU will have your main point sail right over their heads because they are hate unions too. The Democratic party has a hand in that dirty work as well.

[Scarsdale Vibe]

94. Obama is in a long line of utter failures when it comes to the public option.

The modern push for universal coverage began 100 years ago and every single president since then has either failed, been scared off by the AMA, or not given a fuck. Obama, Reid, and Pelosi get the closest to universal coverage, which will save hundreds of thousands of lives by the way, and you're shitting on them? Next time legislation is considered, don't invest all your emotional capital in a 5% portion of it.

[treestar]

101. You're advocating nothing happening

No progress, and damage to the Democratic President, just over this public option. Like it was the only thing that mattered over the big picture. And whatever is good in this bill is to be sacrificed because the PO is not politically possible now.

Your support is so tenuous and subject to whim and inability to see the big picture, that it is pretty useless. No politician on earth can keep your support for long.

[Phx_Dem]

104. Yeah, we know. We've been hearing about your disappointment for a year now.

[Divine Discontent]

107. thank you! tired of being told I hate the president... never said anything like that. he's failed

the people, and supported the corporations and generals who want more war, and the churches who want Gays silenced. Until he changes these things, he is failing, even if I think he's 100x smarter than B*sh!

[jgraz]

108. They know.

It's just another dishonest distraction tactic.

[Sultana]

109. BULLSHIT!

The amount of hatred exhibited by some on this board has gone beyond just being 'disappointed' with Obama. It's the same kind of hatred exhibited a/g him during the primaries.

I see no difference between the Obama haters on the left and the haters on the right.

Obama isn't Jesus or God, some of you expect miracles like that. Things in DC have never worked like that.

[OhioBlue]

111. Are you fucking kidding me?

just exactly who do you think you are talking to? Seriously? Should "I" lose sleep over your threat to not vote for a Dem in the next election? What do you want me or any of us to do? Kiss your ass and agree with you on everything?

Why don't you write a letter to your elected officials with your concerns. That seems like a more reasonable approach if you want to make threats against people that don't share your opinions on everything.

Sorry - but your OP is just overly combative and quite misplaced. And.. yes, there are many of us that did a lot more and many continue to do a lot more.

[joeprogressive]

112. I'll just answer your 2nd question for now

Sheep headed for the slaughter

[ProgressOnTheMove]

113. We have 58 Democrats it wasn't enough and Joe is an independent Republican and here we are...

For whatever his reasons to caucus with us it was pretty clear Joe Lieberman wasn't to be trusted. If we wanted it as bad as some say we'd of worked for the full 60 and we did start out with 57 only by chance getting 58. Plus as far as weak well sure there's been illnesses lots of doubt we'd even keep the full 60.

[boppers]

119. Obama didn't write the bill, and the haters who are blaming him don't seem to get it.

He said what he wanted, he didn't get it.

But I suppose those who don't understand how our government works might be confused.

[hulka38]

120. I don't hate him. Being a Chicagoan I was voting for him long before you knew who he was. This bill

is a betrayal. He's the President and he hardly lifted a finger for real reform. But carry on your rocking motion with hands on head repeating "...they hate him, they hate him..."

[boppers]

122. "Hardly lifted a finger"?

Can you be more specific about what more he should have done, but didn't do? Specific actions would be nice, vague characterization is hard to follow.

[hulka38]

124. What has happened wrt Obama and HCR has been well documented over the past several months.

Cenk brings it together nicely. Have a look: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x416796


Again, voicing my displeasure. Not hating.

[boppers]

125. Watching now, first scan is that Obama worked to get 80 million in savings from Pharma...

So, he publicly argued against mandates... and lost to the House and Senate.
He argued for the public option... and lost to the Senate.
He argued against excise taxes... and lost to both the House, and Senate.
He argued for medicare having more negotiation... and lost to the House and Senate *and* dealmaking.
He argued for getting *everybody* to the negotiation table, rather than just drug and insurance companies solely running the show... seems to have won that one, though Cenk calls it a loss.
He argued for drug cost reduction, and negotiated some deals (with lots of ups and downs), win/loss.

So, how is all this arguing, and losing portions of a fight, not lifting a finger?

[hulka38]

128. That's your fantasy. I'm not going to interfere.

To the main point, serious disappointment - not hate.

[boppers]

129. I'm disappointed he lost a lot of the battles.

I don't place the blame for the losses solely on him, and also celebrate the battles we won... but to be fair, I don't give him sole credit for what was won.

[impik]

139. "Hardly lift a finger"?????

What an outrageous lie. The only reason there's even a reform to begin with, it's because Obama pushed for it despite being advised by everyone to not touch it in the midst of the worst economy in decades. He spent his entire political capitol on this thing, faced a crazy hate machine from the Right (and now from the Left too) and got a bill that is very close to what he campaigned on.

Shame on you for spreading such lies. With "supporters" like you, he really need no enemies.

[hulka38]

142. "outrageous lie", "crazy hate machine", implying that I'm Obama's enemy

"shame on you for spreading such lies" and and five question marks when one will do. You're trying to portray me as emotion driven and personality obsessed when clearly that is your MO. Project much?

[boppers]

143. You present evidence that Obama has been working.

You then claim that no working was done, because you disagree with the outcomes.

Pretty simple to analyze that.

[hulka38]

146. To the extent that work has been done, it's been on behalf of private insurance

companies and big pharma. And I don't hold Obama solely responsible. I blame the senate dems as well. But Obama is the President and the leader. Again, the Cenk video on post 124 says it well.

[cliffordu]

126. Who is this 'We' I keep hearing about??

[HopeOverFear]

132. I know right? I love how they think they speak for all of us

foh

[impik]

137. I know who

It's the new "progressives"-Right wing racists partnership.

[treestar]

133. I'm disappointed in the Senate

I thought PO would be able to get what he wanted because Democrats are a majority in the Senate, and did not appreciate we need 60 votes. And didn't realize how many Blue Dogs there were. So if I'm disappointed, it's in Lieberman, Nelson, Baucus, etc.

[marshall]

141. Expectations were inhumanly high for him, and there was nowhere to go but down

He peaked between the election and inauguration. I knew when I saw those folks in the park caterwauling about how Obama was going to pay their mortgage and electric bills and on and on and on, that we were in for a hard fall. Because honestly who CAN meet up to the expectation that you're going to swoop in like MoneyMan? We live in a real world.

[cornermouse]

145. It seems to have worked well for Wall Street, the bankers,

and all those other corporations that Obama swooped in like MoneyMan (is that code for Dubya?) for...

[cornermouse]

144. It doesn't do any good to try to tell this bunch

what you think or want from Obama. The only thing they care about is establishing military-style unquestioning obedience and echo chambers. They view anything outside those boundaries as viewpoints to be attacked.

[butterfly77]

148. Speak for yourself because..

there are many here who do..