Firedoglake: Senator Sanders, your seat is in trouble

[Teaser]

VT Voters to Bernie Sanders: Stand up for what’s right, or risk losing your seat

http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/12/23/vt-voters-to-bernie-sanders-stand-up-for-whats-right-or-risk-losing-your-seat

Vermonters know that Sanders considered himself somewhat of a foil to “centrist” former Governor Howard Dean. For those of you who voted for him with this in mind, does it make you uneasy that Sanders now supports the bill while Dean opposes it? If Sanders really wanted to bring accessible, affordable health care to the millions of Americans who are currently without, why would he support a bill that forces those same Americans to purchase expensive health insurance from private companies or face penalties from the IRS?

Our friends at PCCC have kept attention on Bernie to pressure him to do what’s right for health care. This additional heat from Vermonters can really help. As our partner John Odum wrote at Green Mountain Daily when this email first went out: “Some serious Bernie pushback today. Guess we’re hittin’ a nerve.”

Vermonters gave Sanders his seat so that he’d stand up for the progressive values of his constituents. Don’t let him get away with compromising those values and succumbing to the pressures of the Senate.

[MadBadger]

1. Is FDL stupid enough to think they can get somebody better than Bernie?

[FrenchieCat]

2. Rearanging your words......FDL IS stupid.

encouraging that we join forces with teabaggers
and attempting to smear the one socialist in office.

She made her decision.

nuff said.

[hlthe2b]

8. Agree... targeting Sanders is going way too far...

He has explained his reasoning and it is not a decision he made lightly... We could scarcely do better than Bernie Sanders in the Senate--one of the few men of honor left.

[tekisui]

12. Seriously, he is the LAST Senator that should be targeted.

[firedupdem]

55. All I can say is dumb, dumb, dumb

She's a teabagger now so I guess this should be expected.

[quiller4]

57. I wondered that myself but Vermont progressives are rallying to Bernie's support.

[Dennis Donovan]

3. A bizarre post from FDL considering that both Governor Dean and Senator Sanders are...

...on the same side of this issue now.:shrug:

[Cha]

9. jane's too mired in crazy to keep up.

[cali]

4. yeah, his seat is about as threatened as Pat Leahy's.

Which is to say that Bernie will be re-elected by a large margin. This is just silly.

[TheBigotBasher]

5. The crazies are showing themselves at FDL.

A Socialist, the only Senator who is proud of that term, is not "progressive enough" for the Hamster?

Some would be happier to have remained in opposition so that they can keep firing their righteous indignation.

[ShortnFiery]

6. I hope "the drops in the community clinic" bucket was enough for Sanders to sell BOTH

his seat and his soul. :thumbsdown:

[cali]

16. you don't know what you're talking about

you haven't a clue about this legislation and to hear the likes of YOU, spouting off about how Sanders sold his soul and his seat is disgusting. Just like dozens of your posts. Maybe you need another break.

The 10 BILLION FOR CHCs will provide primary care to millions of people who currently have NO access to care.

Furthermore, Sanders is safe no matter how he votes on the legislation. Completely safe.


In utter disgust and complete repulsion,

cali

[Champion Jack]

29. He didn't sell anything out

Stop whining

[Cha]

7. Oh, Screw fdl and the elephant jane hamsher rode in on.

Cross Post..

by EdgedInBlue

"After reading one of the wrecked list diaries about Jane Hamsher of Firedoglake.com joining forces with Grover Norquist to call for the resignation of Rahm Emmanuel, a poster pointed me to a twitter by Ms. Hampher calling for Bernie Sanders to kill the bill or lose his seat."

I've got to tell you. Until this week, I didn't know much about Ms. Hamsher. I knew that a diarist blogged here and got donations through FDL. I signed up several months ago on FDL because of that diarist's involvement in health care reform.

<...>

But it wasn't until a poster noted that Ms. Hamsher had tweeted about Senator Bernie Sanders losing his seat unless he killed the bill. Losing his seat. The only self-professed socialist in the political spectrum. Losing his seat because he wasn't progressive enough? Bernie Sanders, promoter of single-payer health care? That guy who passionately argued for, and offered an amendment that would provide health care and dental coverage for every American? I almost couldn't believe it. But I clicked the linky, and sure enough...there it was, in all its glory.

<more>
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=433x91345

Cross POst from GD

"Here's what Paul Krugman wrote about your new Pal Grover:"

Why do I want to see movement conservatism crushed? Partly because the movement is fundamentally undemocratic; its leaders don’t accept the legitimacy of opposition. Democrats will only become acceptable, declared Grover Norquist, the president of Americans for Tax Reform, once they “are comfortable in their minority status.” He added, “Any farmer will tell you that certain animals run around and are unpleasant, but when they’ve been fixed, then they are happy and sedate.”

http://select.nytimes.com/2006/11/10/opinion/10krugman.html?_r=1&hp

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x7311128

[jeanpalmer]

10. Sanders really has betrayed

his principles in supporting this bill, did a 180 overnight for God knows what reason. To get Community Health Center funding of $10 billion, he votes for a bloated insurance system that will cost $2 trillion? So many people in Congress have totaly lost their heads. Sanders is one of them. I still like Bernie and what he stands for, but he totally blew it here.

[Political Heretic]

13. Bullshit.

I can tell right by the language that you use that you're a wolf in sheep's clothing.

he votes for a bloated insurance system that will cost $2 trillion?

A lie straight from FOX news. Go back to your other forum. And spare me the "I like Bernie and what he stands for" horse shit.

[jeanpalmer]

26. You're heading straight for the cliff

along with the others, and there's no stopping you....

[Political Heretic]

30. Yeah yeah yeah. That's what freepers keep telling me.

[cali]

18. gee, who to believe? some poster on DU or Bernie, Krugman, Dean

etc.

That was easy.

[jeanpalmer]

24. You don't need those people's opinions

All you have to do is be able to look at the overall numbers, see that this bill sustains a bloated system that costs ~$7,000-$8,000 per person, see that UK pays $2,900 per person, and try to understand why there's a difference. At that point, you'll see this bill is not HCR. If you can't see it, don't know how to help you, the numbers are right in front of you.

[Political Heretic]

31. Like that 2 trillion dollar number, which is a baseless lie straight from faux news?

:shrug:

[jeanpalmer]

33. It's not a baseless number

The part of the plan paid for by the government is projected to cost $130-$140 billion annually starting in 2013. I've seen estimates of between $70 billion and $120 billion for out-of-pocket costs to individuals for premiums, co-pays etc. Add the two together (I used the low-end figures for both) and the cost is $200 billion a year, or $2 trillion over 10 year.

You have a closed mind. Any time you disagre with someone, you haul out the faux news canard. You're incapable of rational analysis, particularly with numbers. I'm finished with you.

[Political Heretic]

36. It IS a baseless number

since the non-partisan CBO says it costs way less.

And the 2 trillion number - that particular number - comes right from Fox News.

[Teaser]

37. oh boy, jeanpalmer is finished with someone!

That'll teach 'em.

[jeanpalmer]

39. Learn to deal with it

why discuss something with someone who just wants to hurl insults? Waste of time.

[ShortnFiery]

25. When he loses his seat, then maybe people here will believe the massive backlash that is coming.

:shrug:

[jeanpalmer]

35. He won't lose his seat

and shouldn't; but like the rest of the Senate, and the WH, he needs a wake-up call.

[Inuca]

40. Sanders will lose his seat?

To somebody to his LEFT? OK....

[Alexander]

75. He is never going to lose his seat. Grow up already.

[Cha]

27. Sanders hasn't betrayed anyone..jane hamsher who

wants the "MARCH WITH THE TEABAGGERS" is a idiot who sold out to dance with the bigoted pigs.

<snip>

"It has come to my attention, that somehow a filmmaker and blogger named Jane Hamsher, who seems to be the new leader (appointed by whom I don't know) of a portion of "left progressives" has proposed a new political alliance with Teabaggers."

"..Curious I went over to HuffPo, to read what this woman had to say, barely able to imagine that anyone in their right mind who calls themselves a "leftist" or a "progressive" or a "feminist" would countenance an un-holy alliance with a rabble of racists, reactionaries and anti-abortionists.

Sure enough. There it was. I read on. Even more amazed, I read the comments section (though they are not as easy to read as the ones here on Kos).

They ranged from outright adulation, to calls from teabaggers for a Palin- Hamsher ticket to defeat Barack Obama."

<have fun sucking up to the queen of quit>
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2009/12/20/817242/-Update-2:-Sorry-Miz-Jane-Hamsher.-No

[Political Heretic]

11. I'm disappointed in Sanders' decision to support a bill he knows is poor, however-

It takes more than one poor decision in my book to make someone deserving of losing their seat.

Sanders' fought as hard as anyone for the kind of bill that Americans really deserve. When that failed, he did decide that something was better than nothing.

That's where he and I disagree. Because after doing my best to read and understand the legislation (my ability is imperfect, but I've worked harder to analyze this policy than any other in my lifetime) I conclude that this bill will actually do more to make matters worse for poor and working class individuals and families in the long run than not passing any bill would do.

But okay, so we have a disagreement. Sanders wasn't one of the ones pushing for concessions to corporations, or opposing a public option, or creating loopholes for the insurance industry. He did nothing but fight the good fight this entire way. Here at the end, if he makes a mistake by supporting this bill because he believes it will do more good for ordinary Americans than not doing anything - I'm going to disagree with him, but not actively seek out his defeat.

[CreekDog]

17. I disagree with you on the bill, but I think you are 100% right about Sanders

and not taking out the sacrifices in the bill on someone like Sanders, who, if he had his way, would have given us all a single payer system.

demonizing him is a huge mistake and worse, it is a tactical mistake for folks advocating single payer to waste resources dealing with Sanders, who is our ally whether people recognize it or not versus spending those resources and energies dealing with 1) ending the filibuster altogether 2) Ben Nelson 3) Joe Lieberman.

you can only do so many things well at once, so if you are going to be spending a lot of effort to defeat people, the idea that you would spend 1% less effort to defeat Lieberman in order to harm Sanders (laughable at that is anyway) --it's tactically about the stupidest thing I have heard. And of that stupidity, it gives me no confidence that the Firedoglake folks have any capability to run a political operation that's actually going to deliver anything.

which is why i will not be joining cause with Hamsher until she starts acting 1) sane and 2) in the service of delivering health care to more people, rather than winning a narrow argument and destroying those who mostly agree with her except on the final vote.

[cali]

20. You know, there's a lot to dislike in this legislation but it will improve

things for the poor. There's really no way to credibly argue that it won't. The 10 billion for CHCs alone will provide primary care including mental health and dental for millions who have NO access currently.

And subsidized private insurance can work. I'm not saying it will work but it can. I know. That's what I have. It's administered through the state and I pay $60 a month for it.

[Political Heretic]

32. Actually, the poor are the ones who are getting screwed.

In the Senate version of the bill, the poor actually pay more, get less subsidy while the middle class do better.

The lack of effective cost containment measures means no end to skyrocketing premiums, also more harmful to the poor than to the not poor.

And massive loopholes in regulation and corporate giveaways also tend to hurt the poor much more painfully than anyone else.

There's really no way to credibly argue that it won't

Nonsense. In point of fact people on both sides of the issue can make very credible arguments. This isn't something as simplistic as everyone who thinks one way is wrong and everyone who thinks the other way is right. All of us are taking varying degrees of educated guesses about what will happen.

Credible arguments for opposing this bill on the grounds that it will potentially end up doing more harm than even what we have right now are out there. So are credible arguments for passing the bill, as you know.

Paul Krugman, for example, is credible. But then again, so is National Nurses United, the largest working nurses organization in the nation. They say unfortunately the bill is a disaster (in their opinion.) http://www.calnurses.org/media-center/in-the-news/2009/december/nation-s-largest-rn-organization-says-healthcare-bill-cedes-too-much-to-insurance-industry.html

So we can keep debating it.... but please don't throw out the (if you don't agree with me your not credible) canard. I know you disagree about passing the bill, but I accept that you have credible arguments pointing out parts of the bill that are good and might help. I have credible arguments backing my fears that the bill is going to turn into a giant corporate runnaway and do more harm than good to health care in the long run.

EDIT - there's also still conference to get through... still a slim chance that the final product DOES look like something to hold my nose and support. :)

[CreekDog]

14. it's fair to say the thinking has stopped

because this is madness.

[cali]

23. yep. that about says it all.

[Political Heretic]

15. By the way, FDL sets off red flags and warning bells in my mind:

I have to confess, my first readings of FDL have been over the last few days. I stand here as too left for the modern Democratic Party, that's where my politics lie. But reading FDL sets off warning bells for me...

These guys seem, to me, to be highly amateurish in their political analysis, and wasting space on something as absurd as a vote Sanders out campaign strikes me as bizarre - even by my standards of "purity."

[Phx_Dem]

19. ROLF. Nice try, Jane, you moron.

[tledford]

54. I see a lot of "Rolling On the Laughing Floor" posts on DU, why is that?

It's ROFL, people.

Anyway, it is absolutely mind-boggling to me that ANYONE other than a right-winger could possibly want to dump Sanders.

[WhiteTara]

21. go after the true villians....the repukes

sheesh, Jane, Bernie Sanders is one of the best in the senate. Get McConnell and the rest of those horrible pigs.

[stevietheman]

22. I think Hamsher has simply lost it. She's been lying about this Senate bill,

and now this junk.

[Cha]

28. I know she's been lying..that's her MO..but

she's got posters following her through the gates of hell for revenge.

[Inuca]

41. Revenge?

Revenge for what? This is getting beyond crazy. A lefty purist threatens Sanders and is cited and complimented by Orrin Hatch on the Senate floor!

[Cha]

44. Revenge for not voting the way ms jane hamsher wanted Bernie

to vote.

Now she's got orrin hatch exploiting her.

[Inuca]

45. Kind of sad, really

what hr personal problems and fixations happen to be is not my problem, I just wish she would be less shown all over the place as the face of the disappointed left. I watched some cable news last night, I saw her at least twice. And what she says DOES NOT HELP, PERIOD. And that IS my problem.

[Kltpzyxm]

80. The crazy is strong

in Jane :crazy:

[iceman66]

34. Are these people on crack?

Few Senators' seats are in less 'trouble' than Sanders.

I wouldn't be surprised if he runs unopposed.

[Cha]

42. Crack would be an explanation..either that or

Possibly shrums, lsd..some kind of trippin'.

[thatsrightimirish]

38. voting out a socialist will definately make things more liberal

maybe in FDL world?

[Hippo_Tron]

66. Seriously, is the Vermont Communist Party going to challenge him?

[ClarkUSA]

43. Can A Hamster Get Rabies?

Sure sounds like it.

[Cha]

50. Yes, they can and the poor thing is frothing at the mouth.

How dare Senator Sanders not listen to her and vote the way she wanted?!!:silly:

[ClarkUSA]

51. Isn't she? She must have missed her shot schedule.

Rabies usually results in insanity coupled with hostile attacks, which explains alot.

:silly:

[ipaint]

46. A socialist that votes for a permanent mandate for bloated

greedy ins. companies who's business plan is based on denial of care as their sole profit motive, that's interesting. I guess crumbs from the most progressive senator we have are more valuable. Good thing it's 14 billion for health care centers. The folks Sanders voted into a crippling mandate will need the access to some kind of care. They won't have the money for co-pays or deductibles after paying their portion of the new health insurance tax.

Conservative democrats and the fool from Connecticut stand on principle and accept nothing less than what they want, restrict abortion access, no public option, weak regulations, non-negotiable mandate, loopholes for denial of care and a thousand other nasty consequences to be unveiled in the weeks after the bill passes. We on the other hand accept all those demands and in exchange we get 14 billion to help catch the millions upon millions of folks who can't afford or have no access to care as a result of this bill before they keel over and die- mainly as a result of accepting all those demands.


I guess possessing the deciding vote demanding either the public option be put back in or the mandate be triggered when ins. companies prove they are worth hundreds of billions of taxpayers dollars for being an unnecessary middleman was too much to expect from the senates most progressive senator.

Apparently only the idiot from Connecticut and DLC types are allowed to throw their weight. Liberals we get to be victims counting our crumbs.

[boppers]

61. Maybe that's because it's a lie.

Nothing in the plan requires people to purchase insurance from for-profit plans.

[Jersey Devil]

47. Hamster has a major malfunction

Aside from the few fanatics (like us) who populate political internet talk boards and blogs, anyone else is probably asking, "WTF is Jane Hamster?"

She has about as much influence as Pee Wee Herman.

[Arkana]

48. Wait, wait, wait...they want to threaten Bernie fucking Sanders,

perhaps the most liberal member of the Senate, with his seat?

That's it--the liberal blogosphere has gone off the deep end.

[butterfly77]

49. Jane really does think...

she has that much power...

[davidpdx]

52. I thought Firedoglake was pretty decent, but they have jumped the shark

I have taken myself off their mailing list and encourage anyone who thinks similarly to do so as well. Any other organization promoting Firedoglake will also be taken off my mailing list as well.

[Cha]

53. Thank you for this..I have done the

same.

[Mass]

56. Note, this is not Hamsher writing that, but a poster named Brian Sonenstein, a student.

Not sure what the policy of FDL is concerning posting, but here is his google profile

http://www.google.com/profiles/117733422110045749319.

May be he should spend more time taking care of his native state senators, in particular Lieberman, rather than attacking Dean and Sanders.

The problem with blogs and forums is that it becomes virtually impossible to know who the person is. As far as I am concerned, he is entitled to his opinion, but why should I care about it?

[Sebastian Doyle]

58. If Jane Hamsher hadn't gone after Rahm the Angry Dwarf

none of the Message Discipline LLC team would give a shit what she said about anybody.


Now as far as I'm concerned, anyone who thinks targeting Bernie Sanders for the sins of the DLC is a good idea is a fucking idiot.

But please Rahmbots, let's not pretend that you guys are Bernie Sanders fans. We know better.

[MadBadger]

60. Rahmbots

Good one!

[cali]

74. I'm pretty indifferent to Emanuel. He serves at the President's

pleasure and does the President's bidding. However, I damned well am I Bernie supporter and I've worked on 3 of his campaigns. And we really don't need the moronic "Rahmbot" crap, sweetiepie.

[Cha]

82. It's only obvious you don't know shite.

[CK_John]

59. He just got elected for 6 yrs. Over half of Vermont will be replaced by the next election. n/t

[cali]

63. replaced by what? Androids?

And he did not just get elected. He was elected in 2006.

[boppers]

62. Start with a broken premise, come to a broken conclusion.

"a bill that forces those same Americans to purchase expensive health insurance from private companies"?

Straight up bullshit, which can be countered with one phrase:
Non-profit health insurance co-ops.

[POAS]

64. Jane jumped the shark on this one....n/t

[Hippo_Tron]

65. Sanders to FDL

Bite me

[MH1]

78. as if

he would waste even two words on those idiots. :)

[Hippo_Tron]

79. You're right

He should hire me as his press secretary and then I'd get to do it for him.

:)

[vaberella]

67. FDL is a waste of bandwidth. nt

[JTFrog]

68. More common ground with the teabaggers eh? Get rid of Bernie!!!

Funny how that's working out. :shrug:

[BeyondGeography]

69. A whole new level of absurdity

:dunce:

[Ikonoklast]

70. This shows just how out of touch with reality Jane is.

Vermonters yawn and ask, "Who in hell is Jane Hamster?"

[Born_A_Truman]

71. Jane has peeled out of the squadron

[johnaries]

72. There must be a shark in that lake,

because Hamsher has certainly jumped it.

[TheKentuckian]

73. Fuggin insane, at best.

Of all people they want to go after Sanders.

[Vinca]

76. Every so often a politician comes along who passes into the category

known as "beloved." Bernie is one of them. (Oddly enough, cranky, old George Aiken, a Republican from Putney, Vermont, was another. He uttered the single most important thought on Vietnam: Declare victory and get out.)

[WeDidIt]

77. I'd say the Firebaggers are crazier than shit house rats

but that wouldn't be fair to shit house rats.

[Forkboy]

81. I don't think ole Bernie is too worried.

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

83. Sanders has a 100% Rating from Americans for Democratic Action

I think you'll find that the various liberal constituency groups give her perfect or near-perfect ratings. The idea that his seat is somehow in trouble because some nitwit at FDL is blowing smoke is pretty much laughable. He might see a Republican or Centrist challenge, but you're not goint to see anything from the left.
'