If Jane Hamsher helped get rid of Rahm Emmanuel I'd be dancing in the streets.

[dkf]

Rahm only knows how to pressure liberals into supporting "centrist" positions aka protecting corporate profits. If she wants to crusade against Rahm I'm all for it. I wish she had enough power by herself to get things moving in that direction but since everyone on the left is scared of Rahm threatening a pulllout of the big donors she is stuck with finding influential gopers. That is a sad statement by itself.

On the left everyone is too afraid to take on Rahm except for Jane Hamsher.

[babylonsister]

1. If she's so fearless, why'd she team up with Norquist? Doesn't make

any sense at all and I think it was a very boneheaded move that hurts her credibility tremendously.

[dkf]

2. Apparently she didn't think she would be taken seriously enough.

She's probably right.

I don't think our side realizes how many opportunities will be lost because Rahm is spearheading moving legislation through congress for Obama. He gets his rich pals to threaten the withdrawal of contributions. A lack of campaign finance reform is what generates his power. He uses money as much as any lobbyist and often for the same side...for big business. Joe Lieberman knew he could make his threats and demands because Rahm was going to pressure Reid to give in. It's all a farce.

[Arkana]

4. Yeah, teaming up with Norquist will REALLY endear her

to more people on our side.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

6. She's like Nader - in it for the money and one day she'll admit she's been accepting GOP bribes

A fucked up individual if ever there was one.

[firedupdem]

21. +1 a fucked up teabagger at that. n/t

[stevenleser]

38. +10000 Bingo!

:thumbsup:

[Sarah Ibarruri]

53. Thanks! nt

[seafan]

9. Hamsher: "Nobody would’ve cared if I’d called for Rahm’s resignation alone."

You are spot on, dkf.



From Ms. Hamsher's own replies at FDL:

Jane Hamsher December 23rd, 2009 at 2:11 pm
Reply #262:

In response to CalGeorge @ 197

Nobody would’ve cared if I’d called for Rahm’s resignation alone.

I met Grover’s wife when I was seated next to her and Seymour Hersh at a J-Street dinner (the one Chuck Schumer and Kirsten Gillibrand didn’t show up for). She’s a Kuwaiti of Palastinian descent and Grover has battled the right on that issue for years.

A few weeks ago CAF circulated a letter that Grover, Jamie Galbraith, Dean Baker and I all signed against reconfirming Bernanke until there was an audit of the Fed. So when I wanted to pursue this issue and thought it could use some left/right heft cutting through the media noise, I contacted him.

Yes, he’s Grover Norquist. I get it. Believe me, I haven’t been doing this for 5 years without realizing what that means. But that enormous bailout of Fannie & Freddie was going to get jammed through in the next week, and it wasn’t going to stop itself.

Jane HamsherDecember 23rd, 2009 at 2:16 pm
Reply #267:

In response to humboldtblue @ 216

I get it — people who can only interpret politics through personalities won’t know where to file this in their brains. Those who understand “principles before personalities” will probably have an easier time, whether they agree or not.

This is not about right vs. left any more.


It's about the hundreds of millions of regular people being viciously robbed of their livelihoods, their homes and their health by behemoth corporations that have overrun our government and its officials, plying them with billions of dollars to control their votes, and are accountable to no one.

[snagglepuss]

34. Why are people so blind to this fact?

[snagglepuss]

37. Going alone would not have garnered the attention this has received.

She is no fool and would have known how unpopular this would be with many democrats but this is a matter of principle and looking out for the people's interests not political interests. This is a brilliant move.

[Cha]

48. She's stupid if she thinks grover norquist is doing anything

but exploiting her. But, you go ahead and give hamsher kudos for being such a teabaggin' little hypocrite.

[NJmaverick]

3. Hate make one act like a fool, is not the same thing as fearless

and I don't think much of your dance partners (the GOP and right wingers)

[dkf]

8. I can care less what norquist does

He is of no consequence to me.

[Cha]

50. He's an enemy of our country and it's very cavalier of you

to not care what he does.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

5. I'm happier with Rahm Emmanuel since I found out Norquist and that piece of shit Hamsher want him

out.

If I had doubts, I no longer do. They were erased by that pair of lovers.

[dkf]

7. You ought not to be

He is the biggest threat to true reform we have. We don't have to worry about the GOP until 2010. It's the corporatists in our own party we should be wary of.

And it is your anger that is blinding you now.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

10. No, I ought to be. I use the Repukes as my guideline, since they've F'd up this country

Anyone who spends their time attacking Obama instead of the Repukes that destroyed this country, I consider to be Republicans.

[dkf]

13. Looks like we are republican underground then. Lol.

I'd say there are more members upset with Obama than those happy with him. He lost the glbt's ages ago. Now he lost most of the progressives.

[stevenleser]

39. You make that accusation after you write an OP justifying an alliance with an uber Republican?

Wow, utter hypocrisy

[HughMoran]

41. & of course acting stupidly in masses makes it right

Right?

[Sarah Ibarruri]

52. If it smells like a rat and it looks like a rat....

Rabbis also say that you should never give the appearance of impropriety or you'll be labeled as improper along with those engaging in things which shouldn't be done. That's what Naderites and Hamsherites do - either giving the appearance of impropriety, or actually engaging in that which is the domain of the GOP.

[KoKo]

15. How did you feel with Obama appointed Judd Gregg? When he refused to call down Lieberman?

So Jane Hamsher figures she will work with Norquist on an issue they can agree on. What's the difference if Obama does it or Jane Hamsher does it? Isn't she doing what our own President is advocating? Reaching across the aisle on issues where the two can meet? :shrug:

[Name removed]

54. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[KoKo]

60. Answer what I said...instead of accusing me...

Can't do it, can you?

[Name removed]

63. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[KoKo]

66. You changed the subject...so you don't want to answer, it seems. n't

[Name removed]

67. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[KoKo]

68. Ah can't answer turn question around back to questioner...tactical...you think...?

lol's

[Name removed]

69. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[earth mom]

81. All Obama & Rahm have done is a$$ ki$$ rethugs. The hypocrisy you have flung all over DU is a joke.

:eyes:

[Sarah Ibarruri]

56. Oh please

I've never heard such bullshit spewed with at such rapid-fire speed as the handful of Naderite and Hamsherite right wing lackeys. Makes me puke.

[spiritual_gunfighter]

12. Do you know what Rahm thinks of you?

Rahm Emanuel: Don't Worry About the Left
Turn off MSNBC. Tune out Howard Dean and Keith Olbermann. The White House has its liberal wing in hand on health care, says White House Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel.

"There are no liberals left to get" in the Senate, Emanuel said in an interview, shrugging off some noise from the likes of Sen. Bernie Sanders (I., Vt.) that a few liberals might bolt over the compromises made with conservative Democrats.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/12/18/rahm-emanuel-dont-worry-a_n_397610.html

At least you know Grover Norquist hates you to your face, Rahm just laughs at you behind your back. And you are still happier with him.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

57. You Naderite and Hamsherites think we don't read entire articles

You're kinda like the fundies that pick and choose cafeteria style segments from the Bible to back up whatever whackjob idea they have. Same shit. I read the full article. Don't bullshit me with 1 sentence from a paragraph.

Unfuckingbelievable.

[spiritual_gunfighter]

62. Dont worry about the left indeed

I wont resort to name calling like you did.

[Sebastian Doyle]

47. That's just ridiculous.

Just because Grover Norquist is a treasonous asshole doesn't mean the Angry Dwarf is not ALSO a treasonous asshole.

Both hate liberals, and both love imperialist wars, for example.

[Name removed]

58. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

75. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

77. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[WeDidIt]

11. And the White House is LAUGHING at the Firebaggers and Norquist

LAUGHING!

But the entertainment value of their stupidity is only getting better with each passing day.

I suspect it will be full on point your finger at the loons silly before the SOTU.

:popcorn:

[dkf]

14. They are laughing at those of us who contributed and believed.

So disillusioning. I still wonder if this is truly Obama or if the spirit of Rahm has taken over. I'd hate to think it's Obama. Just making excuses for him I guess.

[WeDidIt]

16. Only laughing at the firebaggers

I'm sure there's pity for those who don't understand how things work in the Senate.

[dkf]

18. I heard Rahm only uses his strong arm tactics on liberals.

That is where my enmity comes from. And that is why I think he is a real impediment to change. If he used his tactics again the Lieberman Landrieus and Nelsons of this world at least he would be using it for good. But he rewards those jokers and punishes those who would truly advance our causes.

[WeDidIt]

20. So you've sat in on meetings between Rahm and Blue Dogs?

Rahm Emmanuel uses his tactics to get what he wants. since he became Chief of Staff, he wants what his boss wants.

Rahm Emmanuel will strongarm whoever gets in the way of that regardless of political ideology.

[dkf]

24. I can see with my own eyes who gets what they want and who doesn't.

But I did read that Rahm has a predilection against the progressives. Wish I had saved it but it's gone now. I think it was one of the hill type publications.

[WeDidIt]

26. So you've assumed Rahm tied the progressive's hands

Ben Nelson always had the ace up his sleeve in all dealings.

He could cross the line and become a Republican at any time and still win re-election in Nebraska.

so there was no way in hell you were going to get an HCR bill any more progressive than Ben Nelson out of the Senate.

No amount of pressure on Nelson would have changed that fact. The only way you can take that power out of Nelson's hands is to put another more progressive Senator into the caucus.

[dkf]

30. I've never heard of Ben Nelson threathening to turn repuke.

Are you accusing him of bring a turncoat with evidence?

[WeDidIt]

45. He ALWAYS has that ace up his sleeve

He's a Senator from NEBRASKA.

He could change from (D) to (R) tomorrow and would probably face an easier re-election if he did.

He needn't say a word, either. It's a simple fact of life since he's a Democratic Senator from Nebraska.

But the real point is, neither you, nor I, know what went on in the back rooms. That's why that shit happens in back rooms.

[JVS]

17. Serves Rahm right for cozying up to the right.

[dkf]

19. He's not right or left he is the ultimate corporate flunky.

[JVS]

22. To be a corporate flunky is being right wing

[dkf]

25. I don't see that. Right wing to me is evangelist warmonger types.

[JVS]

27. When did Rahm cozy up to evangelists?

DLC is all about the corporatists and is the right wing of our party. I also would argue that the fundamental support of war is a corporatist phenomenon and not a religious phenomenon. There are plenty of religious groups who have been unsupportive of war, including some of the biggies like the Catholic church. I've never seen a corporation give a shit about the war, in fact I suspect that many of the corporations support the war and lobby for it because they stand to benefit from its continuation.

[dkf]

28. All the religious institutions that scare me support the war.

[amborin]

31. Rev Rick Warren is certainly evangelist......

speaking of cozying up...

[JVS]

32. But that would be Obama cozying up and not Rahm.

There definitely is a religious right and a corporatist right. But to say that corporatists aren't the right wing because that spot is occupied by the religious seems short-sighted to me. Especially when there are examples of the religious left (UCC, ECUSA, ELCA, UU) and no example of the corporatist left (or am I mistaken here?)

[amborin]

33. Who Chose Rahm?

otherwise....

i don't think the religious right has a lock on corporatism at all

it's the ruling elite that embodies corporatism, a heterogeneous group from the religious standpoint

[JVS]

35. Would you agree that all corporatism is right wing, regardless of religious affiliation?

When I mentioned Rahm and the right I meant his DLC corporatist work over the last decade. I am still unaware of Rahm courting the religious right, nor do I particularly care because I view the ruling elite of our country as one determined by econmic class and not by religious affiliation.

And though it seems of topic, Obama chose Rahm.

[amborin]

43. the US ruling elite

predates labels of "right wing" etc.....

have you read C. Wright Mills, "The POwer Elite"

so timely now and always

if you mean 'right wing' in the sense of 'preserve the status quo' or 'conservatism' then i guess they're roughly synonymous

[nemo137]

23. Yeah, getting in bed with the ur-rightist will show him!

Wait, that seems...huh.

[dkf]

29. Investigation is investigation

Who was that crazy Larry Klayman working for? He turned on darth Cheney pretty fast. I was loving that.

[Cha]

49. Yeah, Whitewater is Whitewater..team up shit and she

turns into an even more POS.

[KoKo]

61. How old are you , Cha? Do you mind sharing...Just do "age group"

if you feel uneasy categorizing yourself.

[nemo137]

79. No, people like Norquist investigating Dems is never just "investigation."

They'll burrow and burrow and smear and smear and all hell will break loose. I'm on the young end to remember the Clinton years, but going back and reading things people have written about that...we don't want to give them any cover.

[stevenleser]

40. You think Hamsher discrediting herself is somehow going to harm Rahm?

There is zero support for her or her efforts as a result of what she has done with this.

[stevenleser]

36. Really? How far would be too far for you. The Grand Wizard of the KKK? The owner of StormFront?

If Hamsher allied herself with either of them to bring down Rahm, would it still be OK? Because after working to fund apartheid, Norquist isnt too far off from either of them.

By the way, is there any real evidence for any of your accusations against Rahm?

[Phx_Dem]

42. I'd prefer to keep Rahm and get rid of Jane. n/t

[FrenchieCat]

44. Rahm may be a lot of things to a lot a people,

but his recruitment of Blue dogs in districts where only Blue Dogs can win,
isn't a sin.

If having those majorities,
that he helped gain,
allowed Pelosi becoming Speaker of the House,
then the work that he has done to advance this country,
is more valuable than anything Ms. Jane Hamsher has ever done.

To make Rham a boogie man is silly and childish,
and doesn't do a thing for the Democratic party.

Currently Hamsher wants to kill a bill that is the key
to Democratic rule for the next 40 years.

She's the dangerous one, period.

[Cha]

51. Yeah, hamsher is her own worst enemy.

[dkf]

73. You think this hcr bill will lead to democratic rule for forty years?

Are you nuts? I see us losing the house in 2010. The vast majority aren't going to see a difference anyway.

[Hippo_Tron]

46. Rahm Emmanuel serves at the pleasure of the President

Targeting the President's aides is just witch hunting. Obama is ultimately responsible for what happens and going after Rahm is just a waste of everyone's time.

[Forkboy]

55. Meh. I don't like Rahm but I wouldn't team up with this asshat to get him.

She undermines any cause she thinks she's leading by doing so.

[KoKo]

64. Forkboy...why do you think that? What's wrong with going after Emmanuel and Lieberman?

:shrug: If someone doesn't do it...who will?

[Forkboy]

70. Nothing, but using people like Norquist to do it is self defeating.

As we're seeing. Do you think this alliance will truly result in something that takes Rahm down, or do you think it will give people such as a him more ammo on marginalizing the Left? I think the latter is far more likely than the former.

[KoKo]

71. I understand the danger of what you say...but is it better to have Dems fighting with one another

or to join "across the aisle" (as Obama has done) and form an alliance that could cut off Palin at the crossroads of 2012? Obama seems to feel reaching across the aisle to change the "dialog" between left and right is good. So why do folks feel that when Jane or anyone else does it or Dean speaks out about this very flawed bad Senate HCR Bill that we must immediately swarm all over them.

First it was Scott Ritter, then Cynthia McKinney, then Cindy Sheehan, then Paul Krugman, Dennis Kucinich, Frank Rich, Howard Dean, Jane Hamsher...and many inbetween who seem to get the rath of some of us as supposed turncoats against the Democratic Party who really deserve the trashing...like the Blue Dogs and much of our leadership who are TRIANGULATING DEMS and GRASSROOTS ACTIVISTS.

Then there's still the "Mainstream Media" who manage to stir it all up even more.

[Forkboy]

74. I think it's a mistake to give your enemies a bigger hole to exploit than the one you have for them.

"You" being the general usage, and not you personally. :)

There is some major hypocrisy going on with some of the more ardent Obama supporters here, and their attacking Hamsher for going on Fox (OBama did as well), or for being bipartisan is funny to see, but the fact that they're being hypocrites doesn't automatically make what they're being hypocrites about wrong. I think both Hamsher and Obama are silly to reach out to Repubs in this climate. Maybe 30 years ago when Repubs were simply assholes and not crazy assholes it might have worked. Now it's just a waste of time, and far more often than not counterproductive to anything really good for the people.

I hate the idea of reaching across the aisle for almost everything, because there's no way to team up with any Republican I can think of (Rudman was workable, but that's all off the top of my head) without getting their stink on you. It's hard to say you stand for something while teaming up with people who stand for the total opposite and are simply using you, as I believe Norquist is doing here with Hamsher. If I was him I'd be all over teaming up with her because it furthers his goals under the guise of furthering hers. It's a no-cost way to get at Obama, and helps divide us. Rahm is a scumbag, but letting yourself be used by Repubs to get him is wrong, because you can bet your ass there will be a cost to the Left that comes with it.

[depakid]

59. So would a lot of us- but unfortunately her impolitic antics may have the oppositve effect

It'll likely take a rather severe pounding in 2010, coupled with a series of policy disasters before Obama will consider letting him go.

[dkf]

72. Well I'm expecting that anyway

What a waste of a historic majority.

[Duke Newcombe]

65. The DLC sycophants and cheerleaders on an unrec rampage, I see.

Typical.

[Cha]

78. Look who's talking sychophants while you're sucking

up to jane hamsher sucking up to grover norquist.

[classysassy]

76. Is Rahm

another Dick Morris,will he defect to the dark side(repugs)?.

[cali]

80. getting rid of Emanuel would change little, so what's with the big boner?

President Obama would just appoint another enforcer type. What you're to cowardly to say- along with many who rabidly oppose Emanuel, is that you want to get rid of Obama.

For the record, I don't like Emanuel, but unlike so many fucking morons here and across lalablogland, I realize that in the scheme of the Obama presidency, he's merely a cog in the machinery.