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We do not need to fix the filibuster, or "purity tests" we need to restore some Party discipline.

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TheBigotBasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 06:37 PM
Original message
We do not need to fix the filibuster, or "purity tests" we need to restore some Party discipline.
Edited on Sun Dec-27-09 06:43 PM by TheBigotBasher
Another poster said "purity tests are for loser". Yes they are. However ONLY disciplined, principled Political Parties not only win but they remain in power.

Almost all of the attacks on the President on DU are missing the target entirely.

Bush Dog Democrats, aka Conservadems are using blackmail to get whatever they want, at the cost of the Democratic Party, the agenda they got elected on and the poorest of Americans that someone standing as a Democratic member of Congress IS elected to serve.

Bush Dog Democrats have broken key Democratic principles and Party positions just because they can. They are not "moderates". They are a militant Republican tendency holding the Democratic Party to ransom.

Rights for women were a long standing accepted position of the Party. The Democratic Party has always had staunch Catholic support, but those supporters understood that the positions of the Catholic Church and the position of the Democratic Party were alien to each other, that consensus was understood. Stupak and Nelson in the Senate destroyed that consensus.

Support for some form of universal health care was a key issue that every Democratic Party Representative stood on, especially in 2008. The betrayal of the COMPROMISE position was nothing more than a breach of trust with the electorate. The public are not happy that the bill goes too far, as Republicans would want people to believe, it does not gar far enough. For that blame the militant Republican tendency operating inside of the Democratic Senate caucus.

Support for the poor; Again a key principle of the Democratic Party. The Militant tendency now want to hold the whole Government to ransom, unless they get their way with the creation of a "Task force" on the deficit, they will block an increase. The Militant tendency want that "task force" to include cuts to welfare and social security expenditure. Democratic members of the Party would not be able to block it, because the resulting paper would be subject to only an up down vote with no debate.


Support for a jobs package to get the economy out of the mess it is in. The Militant tendency removed much of the good from the Recovery Act, so much that there was little stimulus in the stimulus package. They did however add useless tax cuts which resulted in the more useless Act being more expensive than what would have been the more useful House bill. So what would the militant tendency do to another jobs package?

The Bush Dog Democrats have even managed to block an Obama nominee, the usual forces were at work.

From wiki!

Political prospects
As of May 2009, there were believed to be 37 Republican Senators (out of 40) who will vote against confirming Johnsen. Her nomination was endorsed by Senator Richard Lugar, a senior Republican from Johnsen's state of Indiana. The remaining two Republicans, Senators Susan Collins and Olympia Snowe of Maine, have not announced their positions. One other Democrat, Senator Ben Nelson of Nebraska, has joined Specter in expressing opposition to the nomination, but neither Nelson nor Specter has stated whether he will vote for a cloture motion to end a threatened Republican filibuster. Johnsen was supported by the remaining 57 Democrats as of May 2009.


These people are supposed to be members of the Democratic Party. They were elected to the Senate on a Democratic platform. This is not about a purity test this is about them acting as a militant wing of the Republican Party within the Democratic Party. They are a cancer and they are a tool to helping what was seen only last year as a destroyed GOP regenerate.
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napi21 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 06:44 PM
Response to Original message
1. NO! I think we need to restore some rationality in both the House & the Senate!
There's no way I believe that there were NO Pubs who liked the HC bill (or any of the other bills that have been voted on since Obama took office)! Those bodies are suppose to support their constituents, and vote for what's best for the Country as a whole, not ALWAYS vote the Party Line!
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TheBigotBasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 06:50 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Parties are expected to deliver an agenda.
Ever since the Clinton health care reforms, the GOP have seen health care as the final building block of the "Welfare State" and the end to Republican hegemony.

It should be expected that the Republican Party will vote solidly against health care reform.

The place to fight out issues is the Party caucus. Give Senators boxing gloves there if necessary. What comes out of that should be the Party position.In that way people regain confidence in the Party that they vote for.
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napi21 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 09:11 PM
Response to Reply #3
21. I can maybe understand your point on HC, but this Congress is
simply voting AGAINST ANYTHING that originates with a Dem! They voted against the stimulus, against bolstering the banks, against the equal treatment of women in the workplace, against the expansion of children's health care, and every other bill since Obama took office! This is not a Party position on a certain ideology, it's a decision to make the Dems & the new President look incompetent and unable to govern!
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TheBigotBasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 09:17 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. And the Republican militant tendency
use the power of a united GOP to further their agenda, over the agenda they got elected on, at the expense of people they were elected to serve.

Nelson et-al are political terrorists, using a united GOP to blackmail the Party, without consequence.
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elleng Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 06:48 PM
Response to Original message
2. Don't know about 'restore' discipline to Dem party,
but something's definitely wrong.
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TheBigotBasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 06:52 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. In the run up to the GE
the Party, despite what the GOP threw at it, PUMAs, "associations" etc, etec, the Party was highly disciplined. The likes of Nelson were not saying, Obama, yeah but.

They stood on a Platform, its details should be fought in Caucus, but they need to deliver on taht platform, or ele everyone loses.
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Bolo Boffin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 06:52 PM
Response to Original message
5. Have we had a primary yet? No?
Then fuck party discipline. Talk to me after the primaries. Today, it's time to yell about what we believe and advance our personal causes.

After primaries, you'll never find a stronger advocate for party discipline than me. But until then, hell, no, we won't go.
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TheBigotBasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 06:54 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. We did.
Obama won.

We had a General Election platform as well that the Militant Tendency also stood on. They Republican militant tendency are betraying that platform.
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Bolo Boffin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 07:22 PM
Response to Reply #7
11. And then we had a general election, and now I'm speaking my mind again.
Screw party discipline until after the next primary.
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TheBigotBasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 07:30 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. So now you support Republican voting Democrats?
Now you support them holding the Party to ransom? I thought you were upset Johnsen was blocked by them? So what is it? Do you just like attacking the President?
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TheBigotBasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 07:54 PM
Response to Reply #11
15. There appears to be a lack of logic here.
Blame the President for everything, never the Senate of the Republican militant tendency inside the Party, deal with his "lack of Liberal credentials" by getting more Republicans, when we actually need more people like Al Franken.
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ibegurpard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 06:54 PM
Response to Original message
6. Pretty hard
when you get rid of one of the worst ones and he runs as an independent against the party candidate and they reward him with a chairmanship.
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TheBigotBasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 06:59 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. I agree
and this is what solidified the Republican militant tendency inside the Party. There are no consequences for their blackmail.

The progressive caucus have not held the Party to ransom, why should Republican voting Democrats get away with it?
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Tesha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 08:58 PM
Response to Reply #6
18. They not only rewarded him with a chairmanship ex-post-facto, MANY OF THEM...
...CAMPAIGNED AGAINST THEIR OWN PARTY TO ELECT HIM.

And the many *INCLUDES* the current titular head of the party!

Tesha
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 07:09 PM
Response to Original message
9. Here's a good article about the filibusterin', and why it needs fixing...
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TheBigotBasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 07:11 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. OK we understand it is there.
It may need reform, but the likes of Nelson face no consequence for using political terrorism against their own Party.

That is what needs action first.
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burning rain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 07:38 PM
Response to Original message
13. The filibuster is inherently a conservative, anti-democratic institution.
Edited on Sun Dec-27-09 07:45 PM by burning rain
The smaller a minority can block legislation, the narrower an interest can corrall the necessary number of senators to do so. The filibuster is the biggest single reason no civil rights legislation passed between Reconstruction and Eisenhower's second term. Fast forward to 2009, and we find the stimulus being larded with tax cuts, and much useful spending eliminated from it, which would not have needed to happen with majority rule in the Senate. And more corrupt deal-making comes with requiring 60 votes, such as Ben Nelson's Medicaid sweetheart deal for Nebraska. Time for the 60-vote rule to go.

It's time for democracy.
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TheBigotBasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 07:41 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. I do not entirely disagree
and I also note how rarely the Democratic Party used it when in opposition, however the main point is not the Nebraska sweet heart deal, which was fine, it is Democratic Senators using it to demand replacement of Democratic policies with Republican policies, with NO punishment.
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Clio the Leo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 07:58 PM
Response to Original message
16. Without them we wouldn't have the gavel.... pick your poison. NT
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TheBigotBasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 08:38 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. They hold the gavel
and they know how to use it. They operate like political terrorists and face no consequence for doing so.

Start with Committee positions, move to funding and expulsion.

The 60 votes myth is fast becoming an albatross around the neck of the Party.
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Clio the Leo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 08:59 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. The GOP is determining which bills go before committee?
News to me .... probably also news to them.
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TheBigotBasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 09:06 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. I am on about the Militant Republicans
inside of the Democratic caucus. I refuse to call them moderates, because their holding of the Democratic Party to blackmail is far from moderate.
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JoeyT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 10:02 PM
Response to Reply #20
23. They're not moderates or Republicans.
They're neo-cons and conservatives.
May as well call 'em what they are.
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TheBigotBasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 10:07 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. Political terrorists
is my term. How else do you define a tiny minority of Democratic Senators who use blackmail to get whatever they want?

A Party within a Party. That is a cancer and to deal with cancer you remove it.

Nelson et-al need to be expelled.
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Orsino Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 10:12 PM
Response to Original message
25. Public financing of elections.
I think we'd be surprised to find out how sane we actually are, when the corporations can't buy our representatives legally.
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TheBigotBasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 10:35 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. I have issues with public financing.
It means neo-nazis get tax dollars. It means paying tax dollars to Michele Bachmann.

My preference is to ban donations from PACS and companies. Only individual donors allowed.
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Orsino Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-28-09 08:13 AM
Response to Reply #26
27. It would mean *limiting* these shitheads to tax dollars...
...with perhaps some small individual contributions, or however we move to public financing. Without wealthy backers, they would have to compete (more) on the merits of their ideas.

I would particularly love to see Bachmann's funding cut in this manner.
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TheBigotBasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-28-09 08:54 AM
Response to Reply #27
28. It does however mean using taxpayer money
to pay for racists, sexists, homophobes and however many other idiot bigots want to run for office.

Ban large corporate donations, ban donations from PACs, allow only individual donations.

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Orsino Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-28-09 09:29 AM
Response to Reply #28
29. I wouldn't have a problem with adding personal contributions to the mix...
...if suitably limited in size--say, a few hundred dollars from an individual. Just so Big Money can't buy much influence.

I would adore seeing Bachmann and other allegedly anti-government candidates dependent on tax dollars.
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