Disillusioned American Liberal Looking for a New Country. Suggestions?

[NoodleyAppendage]

Obama has been the straw that broke my confidence in our country's ability to avoid outright oligarchy/corporate hegemony. I feel like a person without a home now. I don't recognize the Democratic Party anymore...at least the one that I thought was for social justice and providing for the "greater good." I am depressed about the course of our country and the President who essentially lied his way into office as a populist progressive.

Thankfully, I spent hard hours at school to obtain an advanced degree in the sciences and have some freedom to relocate my family. I'm uncertain as to where, though. Ideally, I would like to settle in a country where the economy is stable, immigrants from America are not problematic, and liberal/progressive ideals are the norm.

Not to sound too melodramatic, but in the back of my mind I don't want my family to be like those who didn't get out of occupied Germany during the early 30s when the opportunity still existed. I fear that a window for relocation may be closing...a thought I never believed would ever enter my mind.

Any suggestions?

[leftstreet]

1. Stay and fight

[NoodleyAppendage]

3. How? When the Democratic and Republican Parties are essentially the same...

...where do you turn for a VIABLE political movement when the deck is stacked in our disfavor?

Learned helplessness comes to mind in relation to the current state of affairs for liberal/progressive individuals.

J

[leftstreet]

4. You don't 'turn to' the Ruling Class for a 'viable movement.' You create one

:thumbsup:

[bobbolink]

5. And we poor and homeless people can just suck it up, eh?

[blindpig]

19. You don't play by the Man's rules.

So they own the electoral game? Then we play to our strength, our numbers, we take it to the streets.

[Horse with no Name]

2. These days I am thinking the same thing

My only worry is that my daughter won't be able to take her daughter out of the country because of custody issues.
I can't leave them behind.:(

[Scurrilous]

6. Ohthedramaland. n/t

[geek tragedy]

7. Wait, you could take Bush but not Obama? nt

[NoodleyAppendage]

9. I knew what I was getting with Bush. Obama broke my heart. n/t

J

[treestar]

40. Sickening.

And there's no country that you'd want that would take you. And Utopia does not exist.

You do not have personal relationships with politicians. They do not "break your heart" they aren't close enough for that.

and why didn't Lieberman break your heart, or your Senator or any of the Blue Dogs that wouldn't agree to this or that?

Overdramatic BS, and very, very, very, pitiful.

[NoodleyAppendage]

46. I'm actually going to do something to change my situation...what about you?

I guess you're content to be continuously duped. The old proverbial frog in a slow boiling pot of water. Good luck with that.

[PoliticAverse]

45. First make a list...

of the things/characteristics that are really important to you (this is the hard part).

Then investigate the countries that have most in common with your list.

[Iolanthe15]

8. Australia

Try the Southern Hemisphere , there are some lovely South Pacific Islands where you can have a good life.

[NoodleyAppendage]

10. Isn't Australia government pretty rightwing? Know anything about New Zealand? n/t

J

[Fool Count]

41. Australia (and most of her states) is governed by the Labour Party.

Something that doesn't even exist in the US. Not only that, but the Green Party (which is far to the left of the Labour) is essentially in
coalition with the Labour government.

[blindpig]

11. The People's Republic of the United States of America

Takes a while to get there but it's worth the trip.

[Kaleko]

12. It does feel like the noose is tightening rapidly.

The US is a closing society, on the brink of becoming the next Argentina.
In the past several years, many of our friends have left for either Canada or Europe, though no country on earth offers an easy way to start anew.

Good luck to you.

[NoodleyAppendage]

14. Thanks. I figure if my ancestors could do it, then my family can too.

Thanks for the words of encouragement.

J

[Kaleko]

20. It sounds trite, but I have learned to follow my intuition

over the years. Intuitions are the promptings of a deeper part of our intelligence - the innate knowings of our soul, if you will. If your gut says to take your family out of the US, listen. That's nothing to sneer at, that's guidance from the right brain hemisphere which contains a vast, unexplored wisdom.

[NorthCarolina]

13. Sweden. nt

[jtown1123]

15. Is Canada welcoming to Americans? I love that country.

[Kaleko]

24. Immigration to Canada info...

Immigration

Canadian citizenship: What it takes

Last Updated: Monday, October 18, 2010 | 5:02 PM ET


Read more: http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2010/10/18/f-canadian-citizenship-faq.html#ixzz16dqyUaaG

___________________________________________________________________________________________________

David Aujla - Canadian immigration lawyer:


http://www.davidaujla.calls.net/details/articles/commonlaw.php

Canada Immigration Assessment Process - Common Law Partners



With the revamping of the Immigration Laws in 2005, the scope of Family Sponsorship has now expanded so that now, not only can married spouses sponsor each other for immigration to Canada, but common-law partners, same-sex partners and conjugal partners are now considered members of the family class.

Whereas previously, same-sex and common-law partners could only apply under humanitarian and compassionate grounds, the regulations now create a class for common law partners, both in Canada and those outside of Canada who cannot for, reason of penal sanctions, live together.

Thus, a sponsor who is a Canadian citizen or permanent resident and at least 18 years old and residing in Canada can file an application to sponsor an individual with whom he or she is married, has a common-law relationship or conjugal partner relationship.

The term conjugal does not mean "sexual relations" alone. It signifies that there is a significant degree of attachment between the two partners.

The following characteristics are what Immigration Officers look to in all relationships, whether married or unmarried:

• Mutual commitment to a shared life
• Exclusive relationship so that the individual is only in one relationship
• Intimate relationship so that there is sexual exclusivity
• Inter-dependency of physical, emotional, financial and social issues
• Permanent and a long term genuine and continuing relationship
• A presentation of the couple socially so that each considers the other a partner
• Joint caring of children


Because of the more liberal approach to who is considered to be a family member, the documentation required to prove such relationships increases if marriage is not legally possible or has not occurred. Thus, for a common-law relationship, whether same sex or not, there must be a period of one full year of cohabitation together with all of the other extrinsic evidence which shows that the relationship is one in which the individuals are bound to each other.

With regards to a conjugal relationship, the one year period of physical cohabitation is not necessary, but there must be a greater evidence of a relationship proven by extrinsic evidence such as joint membership in organizations or groups, joint participation in sporting or social activities, joint travel, along with testimonials by parents, family members, relatives or friends and other interested parties about the nature of the relationship and whether the couple present themselves to others as partners.

Such elements may be present in varying degrees and not all are necessary for a relationship to be considered conjugal. Whether an element is present may also depend on the culture or preferences of the couple. For example, in some cultures, women have a limited role in management of family finances and thus there may not be joint ownership of property or bank accounts.

Once the basis for a family sponsorship is met, the sponsor and sponsored person must sign an agreement that confirms their understanding of their mutual obligations and responsibilities. The sponsor agrees to support the person and the family members during the period of the undertaking for basic requirements of food, shelter, clothing, fuel, utilities, household supplies and health care not provided by the public health system. In addition, the sponsor agrees that the family member will not need to apply for social assistance or benefits. In fact, the sponsor is bound separately by an undertaking with the Ministry of Citizenship and Immigration that if any social assistance is paid to the sponsored person, that it becomes a debt owed by the sponsor to Her Majesty in the Right of Canada and the Province concerned. As a result the Minister and the Province concerned have a right to take enforcement action against the sponsor for all such benefits paid.

In an expansion of the family class membership, Canada has recognized that family reunification is a substantial cornerstone of the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act.

[KamaAina]

25. Canada's present PM is a Bush wannabe

he went so far as to prorogue (suspend) Parliament when it looked like he would lose a vote of no confidence!

[me b zola]

16. I guess it depends on how much money you have

We don't have enough to even consider Europe. We are looking to Latin America. Its not only affordable, but it will be the place that is left standing to fight the global PTB.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

17. Scarborough Country?

That's the newest one I know of.

[cowcommander]

18. Moving to another country is no joke

First, you have to realize that immigration laws to most other countries are very strict. I grew up in Australia, and my parents were lucky to get in because my father was a college graduate with a business degree, they have very strict rules on people without a higher education. Another problem is language and culture, other European countries won't let you live in there at all unless you're fluent in the local language.

Canada would be a good option since it's so close, but IIRC Harper made the immigration laws a lot more stringent. But if you really want to move somewhere else, Canada is your best option. Australia and New Zealand are good choices too. Britain...well, I wouldn't recommend it at all. Britain has too many problems right now, a lot of brits are also moving to Australia, Canada and New Zealand as well. Those three countries are all great places to live in, your only choice now is what kind of weather do you prefer, Canada is bitterly cold, while Australia can be blisteringly hot. New Zealand has great weather, but it can be a pretty boring place to live in.

[librechik]

33. self delete-wrong spot

[NoodleyAppendage]

42. Thanks. These are very good suggestions. Exactly what I was looking for. n/t

Cheers,
J

[Vickers]

21. Giveupistan. n/t

[Codeine]

22. Faintingcouchistan. nt

[WizardLeft62]

23. France or Canada or China

How about France or Canada or China?

[KamaAina]

26. China?

:wtf:

[CTyankee]

31. I talked with a couple who had retired to France. They were required to have

lots of money in an account which was essentially "frozen" by the government to assure that they would not become a burden and destitute. They were both early retired doctors, early 60s. I got the feeling they had lots of money. They found a little house in Tours. Since they had no kids they weren't bound up in the U.S. any more. They sold the house they had back in PA.

One of the issues they anticipated was how to deal with their status vs. paying into Medicare. They have an attorney there helping them.

[NNN0LHI]

27. Unemployment rate in Japan is about 5%. S Korea is about 3%

I recommend one of those places.

Good luck.

Don

[cowcommander]

37. I hope you're joking

Asian countries are very racist and unforgiving towards foreigners

[Starbucks Anarchist]

28. Candyland.

[Number23]

52. Ha! He can be the reigning monarch!

King Kandy himself!

[seabeyond]

29. there is not an utopia. you can pick apart every country. nt

[Freddie Stubbs]

30. Cuba, Venuzuela, or Bolivia

[MilesColtrane]

32. Just do us a favor after you leave, please.

Don't come on DU and constantly post about what a shithole we who have stayed live in.

[MellowDem]

34. You're too idealistic...

any country you go to will have issues that will bother you greatly. America has relatively less issues than most.

Your ability to move to other countries that are more "liberal" is a sign of your privilege; most of those countries have very strict immigration standards.

Really, there is no country you can go to where the right wing does not exist or has no chance of taking over, so it's a roll of the dice for you. If you give up the fight so easily, expect to be moving often.

[Occam Bandage]

35. Emigration is not something to take lightly.

First off, immigrating into a wealthy nation is extraordinarily difficult. In most countries, you need to not only have a skill and not only win the visa lottery, you need to have a job lined up before you go. You have an advanced degree? Great. So do millions of people already in the country of your choice; to find a job you need to beat out all of them—and they don't have a language barrier to deal with. But you're not just competing with citizens of your target nation, oh no. There are millions of Indians and Chinese gunning for those science/tech/engineering jobs, and you've got to out-compete them, too.

Immigrating isn't easy, either. Unless you go to somewhere in the Anglophone world, your family will have to start new lives in a wholly foreign environment. That's not an easy thing to ask a child to do—or anyone, for that matter. Is it really fair to force on your family one of the hardest transitions a human can make, all because you think a politician didn't live up to campaign promises?

The rest of the world isn't that peachy, either. The other Anglophone countries are on the same course as America. Most of Asia is xenophobic, and quite a bit of it is unevenly developed. Europe's panicking over entitlements, deficits, national bailouts and immigration. Latin America and Africa have grinding poverty. There isn't a country in the world that doesn't have some problems. Frankly, a politician not living up to campaign promises is pretty damn low on the list of problems in the world.

[librechik]

36. Glenn Greenwald moved to Brazil, where very liberal gay-partnering laws apply.

Brazil also has other delights: gorgeous weather, fabulous scenery, socialist government, alos grinding poverty, rampaging crime, overcrowded cities, poor sanitation...and they speak Portuguese. But it's on my list.

[MilesColtrane]

38. How about a compromise?

You could always move to Oregon.

There seems to be an interesting mix of liberals, libertarians, and gun nuts there.

That state could be a tough nut to crack in the event of a fascist takeover.

And, if things got really bad, you're just a hop, skip, and a jump from Canada.

[NoodleyAppendage]

43. Thought about that. We're in a very liberal part of NC, so it's not a State/locale thing.

I'm just beat down tired of hoping that America will move left or even center-left. I don't see America going anywhere but down given the financial mess and conservatives' willingness to "kill government."

J

[Luciferous]

39. New Zealand. I would be there in a second if my husband would go for it.

[kentauros]

51. Show him these pics :)

Auckland



Waiheke Island



On the road to Whakatane (pronounced "fok-a-ta-nee", and the natives say it fast enough that it sounds like "fuck-a-ta-nee" ;))



I was there in May 2009 and I hope to move there, too!

[fascisthunter]

44. stay and fight

[reformist2]

47. Brazil.

[taught_me_patience]

48. Costa Rica, Austrailia, New Zealand, Belize

Panama, Argentina, Thailand, Singapore, Canada are all countries I'd love to live in.

[2Design]

49. Interesting comments - funny how a serious question invites such answers

that are not helpful. I have noticed that before. For whatever reason some attack, something wrong with them NOT with your thinking.

Back in the last administration, I felt what you are saying and thought it was the leader. Now we have another and it is going the same direction at the core of things. Torture, Wars, Tax Cut, social programs cut, TSA molestations to just fly, police state with tazers killing innocent people, yes it is getting worse.

I too thought that would stop with Dems but it is not, if anything it is being accelerated. They are still rolling over to the Republican mindset. Not sure what that is all about. The big deal over the wikileaks is about the content being seen which reminded me of Torture - they were more worried about the pictures and not the torture. They knew about the torture. No prosecutions. It continues. Wikileaks shows how strong armed the country was toward others to drop charges or not pursue charges. They are all in collusion with each other.

Photographers are being harassed taking pictures of abuse by police, tsa, etc.

I was thinking the other day, I should have left 5 to 10 years ago, because, as you said the window is closing. Other countries are making it hard to gain entry or become citizens.

We are the only country without health care for all of the developed countries. We do seem headed to 3rd world. The conservatives really do NOT want any social programs and will do anything to destroy them. the Media is definitely corporate profit and not news or journalism anymore. Dan Rather told the truth and it cost him his job.

Follow your gut. Depending on your age, race, and finances, only you can decide what is best for your family.

Good luck with your research and your decision. Not an easy one to make.

[Dreamer Tatum]

50. Venezuela, of course.

It's paradise.

[Douglas Carpenter]

53. any third world country - the vast majority of the world - it will give you some perspective on what

injustice and class oppression and massive grinding poverty really is. But as an American who would be presumed and probably would in fact be much wealthier than most you would also experience how intoxicating it is to hold a relatively privileged position of power. And you would understand what former BBC American correspondent Charles Wheeler meant when after delivering a devastating indictment of poverty in the United States ended by saying, "In spite of everything, if America were to ever open its doors, half the world would rush to become Americans."

But seriously, I would be the first to agree that the social democratic policies of Europe and other places have a more fair and more just economic system than the United States. I became a social-democrat after living in Europe in the 70's. It is outrageous that the wealthiest and most powerful country the world has ever known has levels of poverty and economic oppression almost unknown in Western Europe. But then again, America does offer a kind of acceptance of different cultures and absence of class stratification unknown almost anywhere else.

[pitohui]

54. you will go where you're offered a job/work visa to go

it's just stupid ass to pretend this is open to discussion on the internet

either you're qualified for a foreign country to sponsor you to move elsewhere or you ain't, i assume you ain't since you're asking on DU instead of actually already "over there" like the folk i know who have actual advanced degrees/ qualification in real life

[Codeine]

55. Now THAT'S an answer. nt

[Safetykitten]

56. The window on leaving is closing, and should shut hard in spring of 2013.

No country will be wanting to take the flood of people that will be wanting out of this clusterfuck. You will need money and LOTS of it, and a government which most likely will be republican after the next election that will not look kindly to people fleeing.

[BrendaBrick]

57. Hey Noodley!

Been thinking about your post for a bit.

First off, as a scientist, surely you must know about a Plan A, B or C - right?

To check out ALL of your possible options before making such a rash decision?

To begin with, I would venture to say is that this is a big ole huge country of ours with many of which you might find yourself happy in some other state which is more aligned with your feelings and viewpoints. A coastal town perhaps along our many shores. (My feeling has been that certain coastal towns do indeed support a progressive, liberal point of view.)

Secondly, beyond that are the U.S. Territories. The U.S Virgin Islands. Puerto Rico etc. The thinking being that you could relocate without having to give up U.S. citizenship.

Thirdly and to which your post directly addresses is to relocate to another country entirely.

So, with that, here is a link (at least....a good *starter link*) which might help you to discover what might be available to you and your family in this quest and perhaps avail you the opportunity to talk with former American expats to really get the skinny on what life might really be like for you and your family should you decide to venture that way.:

http://www.transitionsabroad.com/listings/living/resources/expatriatewebsites.shtml

Hope you and your family find what you are looking for........