Kiss your 100-watt lightbulb goodbye

[Newsjock]

Source: San Jose Mercury News

Californians can start saying goodbye to traditional 100-watt incandescent light bulbs now that the state has become the first in the country to require a new standard for the screw-base bulbs.

... As of Saturday, what used to be a 100-watt light bulb manufactured and sold in California will have to use 72 watts or less. The 72-watt replacement bulb, also called an energy-saving halogen light, will provide the same amount of light, called lumens, for lower energy cost.

Similar new standards for traditional 75-watt, 60-watt and 40-watt incandescent bulbs will go into effect in California over the next few years, with wattages reduced to 53, 43 and 29 respectively.

... The new standard, passed in 2007 by Congress and signed by President George W. Bush, becomes effective nationwide on Jan. 1, 2012. But California and Nevada, which already had energy-efficiency standards in place for lighting products, were able to adopt the law earlier. Gottlieb said Nevada legislators could have voted to do so before Dec. 31, 2008, but they let the deadline expire.

Read more: http://www.mercurynews.com/science/ci_16989501

[Newsjock]

1. I'm waiting for the Freepers to pee their pants over this

"Obama took away our light bulbs!" But wait till they see who signed it into law. Oh dear me, what will they do then?

[Lithos]

3. Answer

"You're gonna have to pry my 100 watt light bulb from my cold, dead hands..."

L-

[EV_Ares]

20. LOL, man, that is sooo on but still funny as hell and then probably right,, they will. eom.

[Spider Jerusalem]

38. Right-wingers here in the UK went nuts when the sale of 100-watt incandescents was banned...

a few years ago. One of the right-wing papers, the Daily Mail, even had a 100-watt bulb giveaway.

[Brewman_Jax]

54. When they outlaw 100-watt bulbs...

then only outlaws will have 100-watt bulbs!

[SlipperySlope]

2. These halogens aren't bad.

Thank god they aren't forcing us to use CFLs. I've been using halogen replacements for traditional incandescents for a few years now and have been generally happy with them (other than the price).

[Raine]

13. I HATE those CFLs

I had two that when I went to replace them found scorch marks on the ceiling. :wow: This leads me to believe they were close to catching fire! :scared: I had a friend who said that one of the ones where he works was smoking and they actually called the fire dept. I took all of mine out and replaced them with regular bulbs after those incidents.

[EOTE]

58. CFLs typically put out a LOT less heat than incandescent bulbs.

That's why they're so much more efficient than typical bulbs, almost all of their energy is devoted to producing light, not heat. If yours caused scorch marks, they were most likely bad, that shouldn't happen at all.

[fatbuckel]

61. If you buy CFLs from a non-respectible vendor you`ll get crap. Goes for anything.

It`s not the CFLs fault. http://www.yeselectric.com/index.jsp?path=find&ID=,Lamps.Bulbs,Compact.Fluorescent

[hedgehog]

62. Are you confusing halogen bulbs with CFLs?

"Halogen lamps get hotter than regular incandescent lamps because the heat is concentrated on a smaller envelope surface, and because the surface is closer to the filament. This high temperature is essential to their operation. Because the halogen lamp operates at very high temperatures, it can pose fire and burn hazards. Some safety codes now require halogen bulbs to be protected by a grid or grille, especially for high power (1–2 kW) bulbs used in commercial theatre, or by the glass and metal housing of the fixture to prevent ignition of draperies or flammable objects in contact with the lamp."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halogen_lamp

I know some college dorms ban halogen lamps.

[Scruffy1]

70. All fluorescent bulbs run hotter as they age

As fluorescent bulbs age they give out less light. Since the first law of thermodynamics is inviolate you get more waste heat. This is why many commercial buildings change fluorescents on a timed basis. You will notice this at home as the light output diminishes. But it seems there should be a thermal trip in the design to me.

[Scruffy1]

73. Energy Star rated bulbs are better

Since 2008 they have required a more heat resistant base and the newer standards call for a safer fail mode.

[Raine]

77. THANKS for that info

this was pre-2008 when the bulbs first came out. I've been scared to use them since then but sounds like they have new standards for them now.

[RaleighNCDUer]

4. I have only one problem with this.

For most of the year I use the curly bulbs. They give off sufficient light and virtually no heat. In the winter, however, I go back to standard bulbs because they are more energy efficient - not only do they give off light, but also a considerable amount of heat, reducing the run time of my furnace. I have no doubt that my furnace uses more energy running for an extra ten minutes than a half-dozen light bulbs do running all evening.

[SlipperySlope]

5. Almost assuredly, your furnace is more efficient.

Almost assuredly, your furnace is more efficient. Furnaces (especially modern ones) are engineered to extract heat from fuel as efficiently as possible. Using lightbulbs as heaters in effect means you are having fuel burned miles away at a power plant, that heat converted to electricity, the electricity transmitted and distributed over wires back to your house, only for you to use incandescent light bulbs as heaters.

One thing I can give light bulbs over running a whole-house heater is that they can provide local heat in a single room. But then again, a space heater can do that as well.

[Edweird]

7. Hm. That might be something to look into.

While your statement does seem to be 'common sense', I've had experiences that make me question that as well. I'm not asserting that you are definitively wrong, but I do have some questions/possibilities in mind.

[Tesha]

16. Reply #5 is absolutely correct for the "whole house" answer.

With light bulbs, you're buying expensive (but localized) electric heat.

With your home's heating system (assuming it isn't itself electric heat),
you're buying far less-expensive but diffused heat from oil or natural
gas. And even the electricity that the heater uses is still providing heat
to the house (albeit "electric heat").

Tesha

[Edweird]

33. Just the same, I'll look into it on my own.

You're usually pretty sharp, and you are probably correct in this instance as well - but I still have some questions. Like I said before, I'm not making any claims, I'm only curious.

[TalkingDog]

28. Transmission distribution lines can have a very high loss.

8 to 15%

So add that to the "real cost"

International Electrotechnical Commission: about 8 percent to 15 percent of energy is lost during transmission through power lines. Variables such as temperature, line composition and length impact specific lines.

[Edweird]

31. All of that is on the other side of your meter.

I believe we are talking about individual usage.

Also, as an FYI: transmission is different from distribution.

[TalkingDog]

39. I was including both Transmission AND Distribution lines.

REAL COSTS still cost you, however indirectly.

Consider that you are still charged for the lost electricity, public utilities make a handsome profit because of it too.
And consider the impact on the environment. Your choices still COST, whether it seems to come out of your pocket or not.

[Edweird]

40. Do you apply this principle to all your utilities?

For that matter it appears applicable to basically everything in your life.

If you don't charge enough to cover your overhead, you lose money. What's your point?

[TalkingDog]

45. Agreed, it applies to everything in everybodies life

You get to pay for every corporation and utilities incompetence and unwillingness to upgrade infrastructure or reduce waste. You get to pay for pollution, you get to pay for fouling the water, air, food.

You get to pay for making people sick and unhealthy. You get to pay for energy that cost people their lives.

Real Costs.

You initially said you used incandescent bulbs to help heat your house in the winter and wondered about the efficiency of same. Efficiency is tied directly to cost.

Unless you are wealthy, that usually matters.

You posed an open ended question. I replied.

[Edweird]

48. Yes, you certainly did reply. Of that, there can be no doubt.

Your reply, however, was an answer to a question I did not ask. In fact, I don't recall asking a question. I expressed curiosity about feasibility. Also, a minor quibble: I never stated that I "used incandescent bulbs to help heat my house in the winter". That's a fabrication on your part.

I'm simply curious if it is cost effective (out of pocket end user cost - not your extended cost tangent) $/BTU to provide distributed relatively low intensity heat (for instance 50 watt halogens) to aid the furnace and reduce cycling. I've already received an authoritative "absolutely not". Unfortunately, I've never respected "authority" all that much and I've spent my life "beating the system", so I'll look into it myself.

[bighart]

74. From what I understand much of the efficiency gains in furnaces

are actually lost to uninsulated and leaky duct systems.

[Scruffy1]

68. A brief explanation of costs

The real difference is the cost of energy. Where I live natural gas is about half the price of electricty and most modern furnaces are over 85% efficient. One kilowatt-hour is about 3400 btu/hr. Gas is around a buck a therm (hundred thousand btu). So if it takes about 30 kilowatts to equal 1 therm and you pay 7 cents a kilowatt you would spend $2.00
a therm for electric heat. LP gas is more expensive per therm so it might be better to use electric in rural area and in some areas where electric companies give a discount for electric heat. They can do this because they have over capacity in the winter when No air conditioning is running.
I suspect that the over heating problems associated with some CFL ballasts could be from not replacing them when they are due, poor ventilation, or faulty manufacturing. Brands mean nothing, since there are only a handful of factories producing them and they put the brand name on for their customer. Not to say that rejects can't be sold under other brand names. I've been using them with good results for over 10 years and the only problem I have is that they don't take vibration well, but then neither do most tungsten bulbs. Here in Minnesota cold start can be a problem in the garage and porches.

[Edweird]

6. Halogen light is superior to regular incandescent and it blows crappy flourescent away.

[aquart]

9. So why do I feel halogen bulbs aren't safe?

[Edweird]

10. No idea. Care to share why? On second thought, I may know why.

These things:


They are dangerous pieces of shit - and NOT what I am talking about.

I'm talking about professionally installed PAR fixtures.

[aquart]

15. Okay, right there.

A light bulb that has to be 'professionally installed'???? That's terrifying. How many professionals does it take to change a halogen bulb?

[Tesha]

18. Edweird said "fixture", not "light bulb". (NT)

[Edweird]

21. You are misunderstanding. A halogen PAR light fits in a regular socket. You can change it.

It fits anywhere a regular incandescent (or CFL or LED) fits. Because of the focused nature of the PAR design, you want it in downlighting or track lighting. (There are some omni directional halogen bulbs, but I'm not familiar with their lighting qualities)

You do, however, want a professional to install recessed downlighting. Track lighting can often be installed by homeowner/handyman types. All of this applies to the fixtures and not the halogen bulbs - you can put incandescent, CFL, LED or halogen in these fixtures. Halogen just happens to put out a very 'white' light.

[eppur_se_muova]

24. Focused lights like that cause terrible glare on glasses.

I prefer more diffuse lighting, even if it's much dimmer.

I remember one building at MIT with that sort of lighting in the halls -- standing under the light, you were blinded; between the lights, you were in darkness. Best way to get around was to walk close to the walls and look away from the lights, so your pupils didn't stay contracted. I wasn't impressed with the concept.

[Edweird]

25. That's poor design on the part of the architect.

It doesn't sound like we are talking about the same thing anyway.

You can diffuse halogen PARs a number of ways if you so desire. Photometrics are important when laying out fixture spacing (one of the reasons it's good to hire a professional).

At any rate, halogen lighting color rendering is superior to incandescent. CFL doesn't even come close enough to qualify as a contender.

[eppur_se_muova]

34. I sort of figured that ... this was in a very low-ceilinged hallway.

Just didn't work.

As for home lighting, I'm perfectly happy with CFL's. I know color is important to some people, I'm just not one of them.
Things look different under different lighting, and my brain accepts that.

http://www.planetperplex.com/en/item35

http://persci.mit.edu/gallery/checkershadow
A and B are the same color in both figures


The squares in the center of each face are the same color

[Edweird]

35. There you have it. It is ultimately completely subjective.

As long as you are content with your living space, all is well.


But, just for the record, here are some of the ways to deal with the issue you brought up - after correcting the spacing issue:








All of these are designed as 'wall washes' - the light is reflected off the wall and that eliminates glare and diffuses the light.

[Tesha]

17. Besides fires caused by torchiéres that tangle with fabrics, ...

...halogen lamps also give off a significant amount of UV-B ultraviolet
light. If they're operated without all the intended internal or external
shield glasses in place, they can fade fabrics and hurt your eyes. (The
shield glass can, off course, be the glass that forms the outer envelope
of halogen lamps made to look like ordinary lamps, "R" lamps, and
"PAR" lamps.)

And once in a while, halogen lamps explode, especially if you've
handled the quartz capsule with your naked oily fingers. That's
another reason to keep all the shield glasses in place.

But if you want incandescent light, halogen lamps are far better
than conventional incandescent lamps.

Tesha

[Edweird]

23. Those are all issues related to torchiéres and not the PAR cans I'm talking about.

A PAR 30 gets too hot to touch, but so does a 75 watt incandescent. They don't explode unless you drop them on a tile floor. The trim rings for these halogen lights are made of plastic - they don't catch on fire.

[Tesha]

41. Just to be sure I'm making myself clear...

I was in no way suggesting that the outer envelope of the PAR lamp
explodes. But the quartz capsules that encloses the actual tungsten
filaments definitely do occasionally fail explosively (and the PAR
lamp's/R-lamp's/A-lamp's outer glass provides an effective
shield against that).

Tesha

[Edweird]

44. Sorry. My response was directed towards those that are confused/afraid.

I was trying to clarify that the Edison base Halogen bulbs are a completely different animal than the fire hazard bulb found in low quality, dangerous lights.

[Xithras]

67. 100% agree

My kitchen originally used eight incandescent bulbs in recessed housings, on a 3-way dimmer. Several years back, I replaced the bulbs with dimmable CFL floods, and the results were disastrous. Poor light quality, horrible flickers at the lowest light levels, "whines" when the lights were set to anything less than 100% light levels, and a 50% failure rate within the first 18 months. For $12 a bulb, I expected more.

I've since replaced all of the CFL's with halogen floods. They use a bit more power than CFL's, but they work flawlessly. I'm on my second year without a single bulb dying, the light quality and dimming ability is perfect, and they're much cheaper (about $8 per bulb).

Unless dimmable CFL's make a huge leap in quality, I don't see myself going back anytime soon.

[Mark Maker]

8. Note to self, call broker Monday RE: Retail space Ehrenberg AZ

Must have access to I10. Working name "Mark's Lightbulb City".




It's Better to Light One Bulb than to Curse the Darkness.

Better check Yuma also.

Germans appear to be the biggest hoarders; according to Reuters, some German retailers said they have seen sales of 100-watt incandescent bulbs soar 600 percent since the end of July. The Business insider suggests that "Next time you travel to Germany bring a case of 100-watt bulbs. You won't have to spend a single dollar. You can use them to barter for other goods."

[gateley]

11. Ha! Well much success to you - you'll pay a pittance of taxes on your mega-millions!

REALLY interesting about Germany!

And welcome to DU! :hi:

[Ter]

12. I hate laws

n/t

[eridani]

14. Hoping that this will push LED technology along faster n/t

[Ichingcarpenter]

22. We are getting some very nice LED candles that act like

The real thing.
You can blow them out like a candle and they come with a flicker

LED is the way

The candles don't cost much BTW and last for weeks
Many can't see the difference until they get up close.

No wax

[WinkyDink]

36. Are they those blinding blue headlights on some cars?

[Tesha]

37. The bluish lights on cars are "High-Intensity Discharge", casually and mostly-incorrectly called...

..."xenon" lamps.

The ones that are blinding are usually aftermarket conversion kits.
The factory lamps have very good beam control, especially towards
the left and are required by law to have automatic beam-levelling
devices so they can't aim too high.

HID lamps don't show up inside homes very often, at least, not yet.

Tesha

[Scruffy1]

69. I have had few covered large HID's melt down.

These are large "high bay lights". The manufacturer recommended turning them off once a week, I hope that solves the problem. In a car you turn them off a lot so its no problem. When they cool the gases from the element condense on the element and return to the metallic state.

[WinkyDink]

71. Thank you for the reply!

[warrior1]

19. We all ready have them here

They aren't as bright. It is the perfect watt for lighting rooms, IMO.

[HysteryDiagnosis]

26. A potential answer to all of our lighting problems is:

either led home lighting available NOW, or

[Zanzobar]

27. The factories are closing

Prediction:

Soon, the last incandescent bulb factories in the world will be owned by Pfizer, Glaxo, etc...

The only way you will be able to legally obtain an incandescent bulb in this country is through a prescription.

Your insurance may or may not cover them.

[Old Troop]

29. I've tried the new bulbs. With my vision issues, I find the light very dim

and reading very difficult. Do you think there might be a disability opt out?

[Ichingcarpenter]

32. I call bullshit... yes it does take about 30 seconds

to get up to speed with your normal so called light
but after that the luminous is the same for comparable bulbs of different regards .

When you buy do it by luminous, then see what portion of visible light your optometrist
states you are effected by at your age.

I GUESS YOU NEED 100 WATTS of power vs two 50 watts.
Think about changing your lighting systems.. most home systems in the states are an architecturally
anarchism.... set up in the 30s, 40s, and fifties.




one bulb..1950's Denmark

[Maru Kitteh]

46. You call "bullshit" on a poster for having low vision issues? How classy. n/t

[Tesha]

50. I'm not the poster in question, but I'd have called "bullshit" too.

If we're talking about halogen lamps (still legal under the
law), there are *NO* issues with the quality or quantity of
light that they emit: it's better than ordinary non-halogen
incandescents. And if you want it yellower (as with the old
lamps), just dim them down a few percent and their light
will be identical to the old lamps. You'll have to suffer with
them lasting quite a lot longer than the old lamps, but everyone
has their crosses to bear in this life ;).

If we're talking CFLs, then the argument has a bit more
validity but for almost everyone, the answer is to buy a
CFL that's rated slightly higher in wattage than you might
pick by looking at the manufacturer's "equivalent wattage"
ratings. That is, if they claim the 11 watt CFL is the equivalent
of a 60 Watt incandescent, buy a 14 Watt CFL; you'll be a
lot happier (but you'll still be saving almost as much electricity).

The only real issues with CFLs are:

o lousy color rendering in the cheaper ones
o slow start-up times
o inability to fit into *SOME* fixtures
o shortened life when run on very short on-off cycles.

Nearly all of the rest of folks' complaints aren't true.

Tesha

[Union Scribe]

49. How do you "call bullshit" on someone's personal experience?

Do you "call bullshit" on people who find particular kinds of seating uncomfortable, etc?

[Lady President]

57. You paying? I'll PM you my mom's address

Much like the poster with sight problems, my mother needs a lot of light to see properly. I feel like I'm on the surface of the sun when I'm there, but that's what she needs to read. Her doctor was the one who recommended the 250 watt bulb she uses on the end table.

She's retired and doesn't have a lot of extra money, so I assume that you have a solution for paying for these architecturally advanced lighting systems? She also lives in an apartment and can't change the overhead lightening. I assume you'll work that at with her landlord also, right?

[hedgehog]

63. "bullshit" is a word that sheds more light than heat!

A watt is a measure of energy, a lumen is a measure of light .

A 60 watt incandescent bulb produces about 820 lumens. You can install a 12 watt CFL and get the same 820 lumens or a 15 watt CFL and get 900 lumens.

Both the 12Watt and 15Watt CFl are advertised as the equivalent of the 60 watt incandescent, even though the 15 watt CFL produces about 10% more light.

Some people may have specific issues with the color balance of the different light sources. I would expect to find that everyone can find a good light source that uses less energy than the standard incandescent bulb.

[DeschutesRiver]

59. I am finding that to be true for me as well, re: the new bulbs. nt

[woo me with science]

30. I don't trust the new bulbs. They are designed to shoot obedience rays into us.

But seriously, I am feeling sadness and anger over this and the fact that the old bulbs will soon be gone everywhere.

I will miss the quality of light in the old bulbs. It feels like the end of an era, and I didn't choose it.

[Maru Kitteh]

47. I hear they use the Fluoride for that. The new bulbs are actually packaged chem-trails

Kidding aside, I'd miss things like ice and polar bears much more than old bulbs.

[Synicus Maximus]

42. I've tried halogen bulbs and for most things they are ok. But

the color is off on them which makes working with them much harder. So I plan to stock up on good old incandescents.

[Tesha]

51. I think you're confused about which lamps are which.

You seem to be confusing CFLs (Compact Fluorescent Lamps)
with Tungsten-Halogen/Quartz-Halogen lamps. CFLs are the
(usually) curly ones. Halogen lamps look almost identical to
ordinary lamps and their light is better, they're somewhat more
energy-efficient, and they last about twice as long.

Tesha

[alfredo]

43. I just kissed my 100wa bulb and now I have second degree burns on my lips.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

52. OMG ROFL WIN

:thumbsup: :rofl:

[alfredo]

53. It ain't funny, it hurts like hell

[One_Life_To_Give]

55. Going to need better Sunglasses for Tungsten Load tests

Actually I still have a number of Industrial 200W Tungsten Bulbs for the occasional tests I need to run. But I really don't need any more lumens in that lab. The adjacent coworkers already comment enough on my "Tanning Facility".

On the bright side when the last country in the world bans them. I won't have a reason to run that particular test anymore.

[Bragi]

56. Will these work with dimmer switches?

Hope so. I use dimmer switches just about everywhere to vary lighting, and not interested in any bulbs that won't allow dimmer switches to work.

[slackmaster]

64. Sort of

Using a dimmer switch will significantly reduce the lifespan of a halogen bulb.

The purpose of the halogen inside the bulb is to scavenge tungsten from the filament that gets deposited on the inside of the glass bulb, and return it to the filament.

At too low of an operating temperature, the "halogen cycle" reaction doesn't work.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halogen_lamp

[Bragi]

65. Thanks for that

Good information. My experience is that halogens are iffy at best with dimmer switches. Are there any alternatives to incandescent and halogen bulbs that work with dimmer switches?

[slackmaster]

66. Cheap sunglasses

[Tesha]

76. Millions of lamps installed in theatres prove you wrong.

Halogen lamps work fine on dimmers.

CFLs and LED lamps have to be specifically
engineered to work on dimmers.

Tesha

[Tesha]

75. That's only true in a very narrow range of brightnesses.

The exponent on "life increase with voltage decrease" is
*HUGE* for any incandescent lamp, conventional or halogen.
So if you turn down the (RMS) voltage even a modest amount,
evaporation from the filament is vastly reduced and the lamp
lasts almost forever, halogen cycle or not.

And running a brief time at full power redeposits all the
tungsten that's been captured by the halogen during low-
evaporation operation.

Tesha

[Taverner]

60. Go LED!

Brighter than CFC, better for the environment, and you don't turn a sickly yellow under its light

[jkirch]

72. Edison Bulbs

What do you think the attitude would be toward the use of reproduction period bulbs used in historic renovations?

http://www.rejuvenation.com/typepageReproduction%20Bulbs/templates/houseparts_group.html

I mostly use those twisty, flourescent things, but the edison bulbs are very effective in some of my rooms.